Ford Fiesta 1.25 Zetec SE 1999 - Starting issues & Occasional stalling when cold.

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Tue 12 Oct 2010 16:24
Ford Fiesta 1.25 Zetec SE 1999 - Starting issues & Occasional stalling when cold. - stubes

My fiesta's done 108,000 miles and has been a very reliable car - recently its been having some starting issues in that it will sometimes happily start as normal - but other times will fail to start completely.

Seems to randomly decide if its going to or not. When it doesn't start no amount of cranking or re-trying will help, but if it is push started even in 1st at about 5mph the engine roars into life the second i release the clutch! This used to happen maybe 1 in 10 times I started the car but its more like every other time now. When the engine has been recently run (less than 1 hour ago) it also happens albeit less frequently.

After start up when driving for the first 5 minutes or so generally until the engine has reached operating temp, when coming up to lights etc on clutch depressing engine has a tendency to stall or drop to near stall revs (below 500) and recover. Once fully warmed everything works fine - car seems to run perfectly.

As far as i'm aware the car has had a very mild form of the non starting problem for a long time - my father owned car before me (he did the first 95K miles) an said it would v. occasionally (less than 5 or 6 times a year) fail to start when frosty outside, but he'd leave it for a few mins and would work fine.

I replaced the sparks about a month an a half ago - this 'seemed' to stop the problem but it reappeared again after two weeks, replaced the HT leads last week - made no difference. One occasion where it failed to start I sprayed WD40 on all ignition connections and then it started, but have had no success with this method since.

I'm stumped as to what could be the cause - was thinking maybe replace battery but if it starts first time when its been sat around for a day or two and then sometimes wont after an hour it cant be the charge level, so was thinking maybe some sensors somewhere are to blame? Oxygen sensor old and battered??

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Tue 12 Oct 2010 23:41
Ford Fiesta 1.25 Zetec SE 1999 - Starting issues & Occasional stalling when cold. - piston power

Cold start valve try a new one not sure were it is look around inlet manifold.

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Mon 1 Nov 2010 13:51
Ford Fiesta 1.25 Zetec SE 1999 - Starting issues & Occasional stalling when cold. - stubes

As far as I know there is no cold start valve -its all controlled electronically - I guess the idle control actuator does this?

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Tue 12 Oct 2010 23:52
Ford Fiesta 1.25 Zetec SE 1999 - Starting issues & Occasional stalling when cold. - tdc

Does it crank over slowly or same speed as another 1.25?

Have you been regular with oil changes and stuck with same grade/type of oil?eg 5w30 semi-synthetic?Does it use much oil?

Probably temperature related,so either linked to oil viscosity or mechanical "stickage" until thermal expansion allows correct functioning of item... eg sensor,hydraulic tappets,fuel injection etc

A mechanical problem can then lead to the electronic system over-compensating...you get the picture.

I stopped using WD40 on ignition systems(in fact for anything)in the 1970`s as found it actually trapped moisture in and made matters worse!Not just my observation either.

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Fri 15 Oct 2010 12:55
Ford Fiesta 1.25 Zetec SE 1999 - Starting issues & Occasional stalling when cold. - stubes

Its always been filled with 5W30 as far as I know - my dad used to top up with 10W30 though. He used to take it for a full service every 10k miles, with Ford for first 40k miles then with nationwide autocentres after. Since i've had it i've done 13k miles and was serviced in feb at 95k and i've since replaced oil with castrol 5W30 in August at 105k miles.

Cranks over fine as far as I can tell - not noticed any change in crank speed since it worked fine, and every time it starts up crank speed is the same as when it fails. It just either will or it won't start.

Thinking about it though, occasionally when it fails to start it'll sound like its cranking fast, a more high speed whirring noise rather than the usual tick over noise. Won't repeat it though if I go for a second try, back to usual not starting crank noise.

Fair enough on the WD40, thought i'd give it a try and seemed to help - at least once! Can't say I saw any moisture on any leads or connections before I used it though.

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Fri 15 Oct 2010 13:12
Ford Fiesta 1.25 Zetec SE 1999 - Starting issues & Occasional stalling when cold. - stubes

It does get through quite a lot of oil, but I presumed that was down to be driving 40 miles a day on motorways racing to get to work - or get home! I don't batter it when cold but once on the motorway & warm i'll do around 90mph at a constant. (traffic allowing).

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Sat 16 Oct 2010 18:10
Ford Fiesta 1.25 Zetec SE 1999 - Starting issues & Occasional stalling when cold. - tdc

Next time your car fails to start do you know anyone who will lend you a compression tester?I use a nice little Gunson Hi-gauge which didn`t cost much 25 years ago but don`t know what they are now.It has a flexi hose and fits two different plug-hole sizes.

When you start to remove the plugs if any give too much resistance don`t continue but squirt some plusgas (yet to find anything better) around the plug providing it is just off the seat.Leave overnight to soak down the threads before turning plug back&forth until it feels lubed.If you are not careful with a stubborn plug you can strip the threads in the head.

A lot of carbon build-up on plugs in a high oil consuming engine will give you a good idea what state the combustion chamber and valves are in.If new plugs carbon-up quickly then it`s time to replace your engine or components thereof...eg valve-stem oil seals would be the first bet.

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Mon 1 Nov 2010 14:09
Ford Fiesta 1.25 Zetec SE 1999 - Starting issues & Occasional stalling when cold. - stubes

Bought a spark socket other day and had a look - took out no.1 plug and firing end looks pretty good - has no trace of oil anywhere, but is a sort of white/grey colour with no deposits. However the end of the threaded part of the plug that sticks out into the chamber is covered in a fine layer of soft powdery black stuff that comes off easily when touched - presumably fresh carbon deposits? Plug has done less than 5k so far.

I haven't got a compression tester but I'm pretty sure engine is in good condition apart from the obvious problem, my dad isn't a particularly aggressive driver and never races the engine, so even after 90k of his driving i'd presume it was still good.

Have to top up oil fortnightly - i'd say it burns the half litre max to min mark in about 1,000 miles. 800 of which is motorway driving.

As for the valves - i know they are due an adjustment - just bought a vernier from wilkos for a fiver which was a shock, have to get out the shims and give them a measure. Does sound quite tappety so i guess that adds to the problem. Engine ran fine for two weeks after last post - started every time, since then its had a bit of a relapse and been not starting on off. Think i'm going to take oxygen sensor out and have a look at that, see if it needs replacing.

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Mon 1 Nov 2010 14:12
Ford Fiesta 1.25 Zetec SE 1999 - Starting issues & Occasional stalling when cold. - stubes

when i took the old sparks out that had done at least 40k they had no build up at all - were a grey/brown almost rust colour but seemed in great condition for something that had done that many miles. So whatever is going wrong is recent than gradually accumulating engine wear.

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Mon 1 Nov 2010 20:52
Ford Fiesta 1.25 Zetec SE 1999 - Starting issues & Occasional stalling when cold. - tdc

Your oil use and tappetty engine is not uncommon for this model with over 100,00 miles.

Poor old gal should be enjoying an easy retirement plodding around but instead is being thrashed mercilessly up and down the motorway at a constant 90mph! :-)

You could do the compression test I suggested?

If that`s ok put some Forte specialist injection cleaner in the fuel tank and see if it cures your starting issues.

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Mon 8 Nov 2010 11:08
Ford Fiesta 1.25 Zetec SE 1999 - Starting issues & Occasional stalling when cold. - stubes

I have finally got my compression tester!

Just wondering before I use it - should I disconnect the ignition coil or is it best to leave the spark plugs lying against the engine block or chassis to earth them while I crank the engine? Don't want to risk damaging the ECU as the ignition circuit on it has already been damaged once when my original coil failed last year. (cost £300 for a specialist company to repair it).

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Mon 8 Nov 2010 13:08
Ford Fiesta 1.25 Zetec SE 1999 - Starting issues & Occasional stalling when cold. - madf

There is a known Idle Control Valve problem.

Or it's a crankshaft position sensor..

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Tue 9 Nov 2010 15:59
Ford Fiesta 1.25 Zetec SE 1999 - Starting issues & Occasional stalling when cold. - stubes

Would both of these issues not cause some symptoms while the car was running and fully warmed up?

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Tue 9 Nov 2010 17:21
Ford Fiesta 1.25 Zetec SE 1999 - Starting issues & Occasional stalling when cold. - tdc

Personally haven`t met a problem from not earthing the plugs whilst doing a comp test,but worth doing so if it puts your mind at ease.

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Wed 24 Nov 2010 21:07
Ford Fiesta 1.25 Zetec SE 1999 - Starting issues & Occasional stalling when cold. - stubes

Have done a compression test,

Got 80 psi quickly for first cylinder, second was 75 psi but took about double the time to reach this and the two remaining cylinders were around 85 psi but just as quick as the first.

Seemed like it took two pulses for the tester to get to max pressure for 1, 3 and 4 but around four pulses for the 2nd cylinder (I presume that corresponds to two and four compression strokes respectively).

Did the Haynes hint of dropping a bit of oil into the cylinder and re-testing to check if pressure due to poor gas seal on piston head and got 150 psi!! Presume this is my fault and I put too much oil in. Don't have a squirty oil dispenser thing, so was hard to get such a small amount in. Guess that doesn't really tell me anything then?

Does this sound ok? bit of a discrepancy for cylinder two but I guess could have some dirt on valve or something? But is not related to starting issue?

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Tue 9 Nov 2010 17:38
Ford Fiesta 1.25 Zetec SE 1999 - Starting issues & Occasional stalling when cold. - madf

Crankshaft position sensor gives intermittent problems...

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Wed 24 Nov 2010 23:02
Ford Fiesta 1.25 Zetec SE 1999 - Starting issues & Occasional stalling when cold. - tdc

If your compression readings had stayed the same after adding oil to combustion chamber it would have pointed towards worn/burnt-out/sticking valves or head gasket,but because they have doubled you have your answer....piston rings!

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