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Ford Fiesta - Ford Fiesta not starting- cambelt gone? - mikeey84

Hi All, monday morning I went to start my car, heard an almightly grinding/banging noise from under the bonnet. Turned the engine straight off. Tried again, similar noise, just less severe. Turned engine straight off again.

Went to start it last night, turned key, heard a clunk and dash lights all went out, as well as interior light. Got RAC man out and he tried jump leads- nothing, still only a clunk and the lights went out.

I then put it in gear and tried to roll it down the hill, it went a few feet and stopped itself without any interferance from us. Same thing when we tried to push it back up the hill.

Is this my starter motor jammed on (we tried hitting it, with no success) or has my cam belt gone and i now have a pile of scrap that looks like an engine?

Cheers

Mikeey84

Ford Fiesta - Ford Fiesta not starting- cambelt gone? - tdc

More info .....year&exact model/engine type/cc please?

Doubt if a qualified breakdown mechanic would do all you described without first taking a peek at the cambelt.

Experienced mechanic on the scene would tell you in minutes if not seconds what was wrong but modern technology hasn`t reached any forums yet....ie video link/Skype.Maybe in the future we will be able to upload/download allsorts as you can on some selling sites,where you can take a virtual walk around a vehicle and hear it running etc....no running in your case though :(

Ford Fiesta - Ford Fiesta not starting- cambelt gone? - mikeey84

2003, 1.25l Ford Fiesta LX.

The roadside mechanic did do all i described and did not look at the cambelt. He peered into the engine, but did not take the cover off, as I think he had already made his mind up!

Edit: you cant see the cambelt (or lack of) without taking the cover off in this car. (I think!)

Edited by mikeey84 on 06/10/2010 at 13:53

Ford Fiesta - Ford Fiesta not starting- cambelt gone? - tdc

Should have asked you for your car`s mileage too!

Replaced my 10-yo Fiesta zetec cam-belt at 100,000,wouldn`t risk any longer,miles/age.

If breakdown mechanic had "already made his mind up"when he helped you push your car to try and start it then it wasn`t a snapped cambelt he had in mind!

Are you up for a bit of investigative stuff yourself if given instructions,or don`t you touch spanners?

If cam-belt turns out to be intact then starter motor/flywheel would probably be next on the list of suspects,going by the noises you described.

.......I`m assuming that you have plenty of oil in your engine????

Ford Fiesta - Ford Fiesta not starting- cambelt gone? - mikeey84

93k miles- was gonna get it replaced in the next couple of weeks

He didnt push it to try and start it, he just let it roll, in 4th gear, down the hill. The fact that it rolled down a hill, in gear, shows that there is something wrong....

Will be checking the oil as soon as I get back from work. It was fine a couple of weeks ago when I checked.

Ford Fiesta - Ford Fiesta not starting- cambelt gone? - mikeey84

only ever changed oil and oil filter, but have haines, and was about to change brake pads and discs, and air filter.

Also going to take the cambelt cover off as soon as i get home so feel free to suggest things for me to look at, but I dont have any jacks, and its parked on a hill so I cant really get underneath very easily!

Ford Fiesta - Ford Fiesta not starting- cambelt gone? - mikeey84

Is the fact that it rolled a couple of feet in 4th gear before stopping not a serious issue? Thats what is causing most of the guys in the office to scratch their heads, and there are some fairly serious car nuts here.

Their money is spread between jammed starter, head gasket, cam belt, and one guy reckons :

My money is on the flange widget on the big end having too much camber

:-)

Ford Fiesta - Ford Fiesta not starting- cambelt gone? - madf

Jammed starter motor.

The lights dimming/going out says so.. huge current, no action...

Fourth gear does not provide good braking effort and is US for bump starting (use 2nd)..

You may have fused the electrics as the current draw id very large with a jammed starter...

Ford Fiesta - Ford Fiesta not starting- cambelt gone? - tdc

The higher the gear selected the easier the vehicle is to push.

If cam-belt had snapped then you would get some horrible noises when pushed in gear if in fact you could push it.

If starter motor bendix pinion jammed when in line with flywheel ring-gear and then you push vehicle in fourth gear,the effect of the huge flywheel ring-gear turning the tiny starter motor bendix gear could result in some interesting findings in the bell-housing .

Did you brave it out in the elements to have a look?At least it`s still likely to be where you left it....unless parked illegally!

Ford Fiesta - Ford Fiesta not starting- cambelt gone? - mikeey84
I did, and the cambelt is still in good nick. If the starter motor bendix gear is the issue, is it likely to be an expensive/complex issue??
Ford Fiesta - Ford Fiesta not starting- cambelt gone? - tdc

You will need to remove starter motor from flywheel housing to check its condition.If bendix gear is broken you may get away with just having that replaced but you will have to turn engine via pulley bolt and check all flywheel ring-gear teeth for damage(they naturally have a chamfer on them for bendix gear lead-in)Mark flywheel with chalk so you know when you`ve done a full turn.

The end bush may have popped out of the starter-motor body allowing excess play on the bendix shaft leading to jammed gear.

There are plenty of starter units about so if yours is u/s don`t pay new prices for what is a relatively cheap readily available type.Options,depending on condition of yours are....service exchange unit /get yours repaired/repair it yourself/visit scrap-yard for cheapo 2nd-hand one.

If all looks ok when removed you can connect starter-motor up to wiring again and activate to watch&listen to mechanism.Be careful there`s a lot of power&inertia in a starter....that`s if your battery isn`t dead!

Hopefully you have your radio code if you lost all power,if not they are available for free.

Ford Fiesta - Ford Fiesta not starting- cambelt gone? - mikeey84
I think I will leave any further invesigatiom to the garage! I have heard that the flywheel is a lot tougher than the starter motor, so if they jam, the starter gets b*****ed, and the flywheel doesn't get harmed. Is this true? Is a new flywheel an expensive/complex job? Is there likely to be other components that need replacing? I just don't want to be taken for a ride, as I am using a new garage and not sure of their rep.
Ford Fiesta - Ford Fiesta not starting- cambelt gone? - tdc

Of course only by removing the starter can it be confirmed that it is the problem.

Yes,usually the flywheel ring-gear will survive a one-off altercation as described and at most a few teeth require burrs dressing with a file.If however you do require the flywheel replacing(most vehicles the ring-gear is an integral part of the flywheel.I had an `84 240D Merc where it wasn`t and the ring-gear popped off and I had to heat a new one up and fit,it shrank onto the flywheel as it cooled)

You may just get away with a new starter plus an hour`s labour cost to remove/fit.I expect you`ll ask them to investigate and ring you with a quote before proceeding.They may want to remove g/box to retrieve any random broken pieces.I have seen holes punched through the bell-housing where the flywheel has picked up debris and had to replace g/boxes because of damage.

If your flywheel is damaged then garage will also suggest a new clutch which is a three-piece affair...pressure-plate,cover,thrust-bearing.Replacement would be due to mileage,although my 1388cc zetec is approaching 120,000 on original clutch!

Cost vary a lot from garage to garage,try and find a good recommended one.

Ford Fiesta - Ford Fiesta not starting- cambelt gone? - mikeey84

Could it be the head gasket has gone, and i`ve got hydrolock in one of the cylinders, which is stopping the car rolling any further while in 4th gear? Which has caused the starter to break?

Ford Fiesta - Ford Fiesta not starting- cambelt gone? - tdc

Absolutely!

Remove plug leads and plugs and turn engine over using a ring-spanner on the crank pulley bolt-head while someone looks into the cambox cover recess for escaping liquids.

If you cannot turn engine over easily using this method with spark plugs removed(try moving crank pulley clockwise then anticlockwise)and it`s not a piece of starter bendix gear jammed between flywheel and housing then maybe it`s dropped a valve?

Ford Fiesta - Ford Fiesta not starting- cambelt gone? - mikeey84

Ah. Thats not what I wanted to hear! Is it likely that its the bendix jamming the flywheel allowing some movement forward and back?

If it is hydrolock, then surely the engine wouldnt have turned over at all when I first started it?

Dropped valve- that doesnt sound good!

Ford Fiesta - Ford Fiesta not starting- cambelt gone? - tdc

Possibly.

Hydraulic lock would come into play when a particular cylinder is at TDC on compression(all valves closed,piston at top of stroke)and drawing in liquid from the waterways due to blown head gasket or a crack in the cylinder head or block/liner.

An engine can turn over as liquid is drawn into the engine when the piston in the offending cylinder/s descends.When the valves close as the piston ascends on the compression stroke that`s where huge hydraulic pressure can be created if liquid is drawn into the combustion chamber.Turning your engine back the opposite way by hand would relieve this pressure.

Was your car using any coolant?Had engine overheated at any time?Have you run it with low/no antifreeze %

Ford Fiesta - Ford Fiesta not starting- cambelt gone? - piston power

Instead of all this guessing what maybe and what it may not why not get somebody who does know what there doing to have a look at it? Because you don't seem to have a clue and nobody on here has a crystal ball and a magic wand to fix it.

Ford Fiesta - Ford Fiesta not starting- cambelt gone? - tdc

Go on get your spanners out,removing the starter motor is an easy job and would be a good starting point(no pun intended! :-)

Can give you good advice on how to clean it up if it`s not too poorly.Save yourself a fortune.

Starter motor mechanical components get a hard life,they dry up as they run hot and get covered in dust from the clutch plate as it wears.

Ford Fiesta - Ford Fiesta not starting- cambelt gone? - mikeey84

look mate, i am getting it into the garage on Saturday. I am currently out of the country, so speculation is about all I have.

Yes I dont have a clue, hence why i am posting on this, trying to work out how much its going to cost!

No need to be a p****

ps thats to bigtee, not tdc- thanks for the offer tdc, but i think i will let the "professionals" have a look!

Edited by mikeey84 on 08/10/2010 at 20:32

Ford Fiesta - Ford Fiesta not starting- cambelt gone? - madf

Yes I dont have a clue, hence why i am posting on this, trying to work out how much its going to cost!

No need to be a p****

None of us here are mind readers. You come on here, ask for advice and get it.

And are then rude because no-one KNOWS - by telepathy - that you are out of the country.

Who did you tell ? No-one.

Frankly (I have edited my comments +

Edited by madf on 09/10/2010 at 19:58

Ford Fiesta - Ford Fiesta not starting- cambelt gone? - mikeey84

Cambelt tensioner collapsed. Been quoted £989+vat for replacement of all valves, new cambelt, aux belt, oil, filter, coolant.

I am thinking that a 03 plate 1.25l ford fiesta with 93k on the clock wont be worth much more than that.

Would it be worth buying a new top end of ebay or in fact a complete engine (bout £400) and fitting it? Is this likely to be reliable?

Ford Fiesta - Ford Fiesta not starting- cambelt gone? - tdc

Not worth it,bung it on ebay and add what you get for it to the money you were going to spend on repairs and buy yourself a reliable lower-mileage replacement.

Ford Fiesta - Ford Fiesta not starting- cambelt gone? - mikeey84

Thats what I was thinking! Thanks for all your advice. Look out for it on Ebay!

Mikeey84

Ford Fiesta - Ford Fiesta not starting- cambelt gone? - tdc

You`re welcome.Will keep a look out on ebay.Probably would cost a competent DIY mechanic under £150 in parts to put right.Hope you get a good replacement car.

Ford Fiesta - Ford Fiesta not starting- cambelt gone? - mikeey84

have decided in fact to get it fixed. Reckon I can get £2500 for it repaired, so will sell it as soon as it is repaired and has an MOT (due November). That way I pay the £1200 back and still have enough to get a decent car.

Ford Fiesta - Ford Fiesta not starting- cambelt gone? - tdc

There`s a nice little `03-plate red Finesse on ebay,auction finishes just before 9pm tonight,23 bids,on £2,250 at the moment.

How`s yours compare?

Ford Fiesta - Ford Fiesta not starting- cambelt gone? - piston power

have decided in fact to get it fixed. Reckon I can get £2500 for it repaired, so will sell it as soon as it is repaired and has an MOT (due November). That way I pay the £1200 back and still have enough to get a decent car.

Don't bother getting it fixed just place it here:www.delmarvarecycling.com/photo_gallery/images%20f...g

Ford Fiesta - Ford Fiesta not starting- cambelt gone? - tdc

have decided in fact to get it fixed. Reckon I can get £2500 for it repaired, so will sell it as soon as it is repaired and has an MOT (due November). That way I pay the £1200 back and still have enough to get a decent car.

Don't bother getting it fixed just place it here:www.delmarvarecycling.com/photo_gallery/images%20f...g

Govt paid for kit??

Friends of millionaire Martin tax disc Brundle?... as we called the p****** when he was funded by the Govt to tell us in that supercilious tone what would happen to the hard-up`s cars,those who hadn`t bought into/not interested in the capitalist idyll,before he continued to slag off F1 drivers with skills far superior to his own.

Ford Fiesta - Ford Fiesta not starting- cambelt gone? - mikeey84

Right, just heard from garage, split a piston and cracked 2 more. dont think I am gonna get it repaired!

So classifieds for it. Anyone in the Rugby area fancy it?

Also I have an option on a P reg Volvo S40 with 78k on the clock. Any watch outs for this?

Ford Fiesta - Ford Fiesta not starting- cambelt gone? - tdc

Bit poorly then!

Last week local-ish chap was looking for one to do up cheaply,he`s 60 miles from Rugby though so don`t know if he`s time to travel?How much were you willing to let it go for?Don`t suppose this forum is open to transactions taking place through it though?

Ford Fiesta - Ford Fiesta not starting- cambelt gone? - Avant

No, because otherwise we'd become a marketplace: but I can pass on E-mail addresses if you give me permission to. E-mail moderators@honestjohn.co.uk.

Ford Fiesta - Ford Fiesta not starting- cambelt gone? - mikeey84

Its gone, sorry. Got £450 so fairly chuffed.