Trading Standards will get involved in a single event if there is a clear breach and it is not recticfied. An example might be if a car breaks down 200 yards down the road and the trader refuses to take any responsibility. Similarly they will intervene if there has been a clearly illegal act such as clocking.

The legislation is deliverately subjective as it is designed to leave the decision as to what is acceptable up to the court. If you sell a new product in the first six months then the presumtion would be to replace, repair or refund.

In the more complicated matter of a second hand car the court will take account of age, condition and price - as well as the duty of the keeper to maintain and look after it properly. So if someone buys a £200 vehicle as a runaround for a month or so and fails to put any oil in it the court is not going to demand much of the dealer if it fails after five months. But if you sell a year old Porsche and it develops a noisy gearbox a court would probably rule that you should fix it.

From a trader's point of view you are always going to have some cars develop faults and that likelihood increases if you sell older and cheaper cars. You have to build some provision for that in your profit margins.

The main guidance I would offer it to remember that consumer legislation is all about knowledge (which is why a trader cannot sell a car "as seen").

If you sell a car which has a fault then as long as that fault is notified and on the invoice there can be no come-back.

The other point is the consumer is not without responsibilities and if the fault resulted from their negligence the court should not find against the trader.

You've got 5 years more than me Tony, but my experience is that every dealer i've ever met is bent to some extent. When I say this (in a nice manner of course) the one I'm speaking to says "not me". "So you've never sold a car for cash & under declared the selling price to the VAT man?" ..... "errrrr?" Or "You've never done a dummy invoice to the finance company to create a deposit?" ..... "errr?"

Two recent comments to me by directors of medium size groups;

1. "The b***** trading standards were on the radio this morning, advising customers of their 6 months rights. Don't they know the job is hard enough."
2. "I don't care if the damn thing broke down inside 6 months. We give a 3 month warranty he can **** ***"

From the sales manager of a used car site within a franchised group:

1. So I told him "I don't care if the thing has broke down after only 2 weeks. If you wanted looking after you should have bought one from our XXX franchise"

And finally from directors of two (seperate) used car dealers:

1. We give a one month warranty. If the customer mentions the 6 month thing, I won't sell him the car
2. In my presecnce, to a customer: "Trading Standards!!!! Trading Standards!!!! I know where you live. I'll come round & give you Trading Standards!"

I think car dealers are at a disadvantage when they get to court because the court KNOWS that dealers frequently sell cars that have major inherant defects. They know that the standard of preparation in MOST used car dealers is to drive it & if they don't notice anything wrong it is sold as it is with NO thourough check. What level of assistance they give to the customer if a problem then shows itself is very much down to the individual dealer.

I guess, Lucy, that your experience is based on complaints from the car buying public, who are equally as dishonest as the traders they buy from. So in many of the complaints you get involved with, the dealer happens to be innocent, on that particular occassion.

As I said in an earlier post, I'm sick & tired of car buyers trying it on. I've lost count of the number of PXs which were a year older than the customer told me at time of order - "log book? I haven't got it with me, can I send it in the post?" or the amount of PXs which the customer has "parked it round the corner, here are the keys" only to find out it had a couple of dents more than it had two days ago when I agreed the deal.

A pal of mine (who is one of your mob, Lucy) once asked me if it was OK to keep his tax disk on his PX without informing the dealer at time of order. I've been offered cash countless times to sell a car well below retail price & on one occasion to alter an order form detailing the (false) purchase of a GAP policy after the customer's car had been nicked

I've had a customer run out of gas in a loan car, cruise to a halt at a petrol station, then walk a mile to the dealership where I worked, shouting at me that the loan car had broken down & wanting a discount on his service bill in com-pen-say-shun. i've had customers (plural) use half a tank of my (mine - private) fuel yet claiming they have travelled no more than 10 miles.

This is the problem with the car trade - both sides expect the other to "rip each other off" so they both get their retaliation in first.

Me, I treat everyone as a liar & a cheat thus I am not at a loss, just continually disapointed