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Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - Rover 600

I own a old Rover 600 and pay £205 per year in Vehcile Excise Duty. So please tell me why I should pay yet owners of pre-1973 made marques such as Alvis, Ferrari, Aston Martin, etc., etc. are exempt from this duty? These aren't "old bangers" any more like the Triumph Vitesse I owned as a student in the 1980s but now cosseted "boy's toys" costing sometimes tens of thousands of pounds. Not everyday cheap transport for the less well off but pythings for the well heeled! In fact some 307,000 vehvicles are currently exempt from vehicle excise duty under this "historic vehicle" exemption. Assuming that they only had an engine capacity of less than 1549cc that is some £30 million per annum of money lost to the country. Now I know some will say they are preserving some sort of heritage. Yet I don't get an exemption from paying Council Tax if my house is of pre-1973 date! Nor an exemption from the cost of my Shot Gun Certificate despite having it for my late father's gun made in 1919. So why for cars? These aren't old beat up Ford, Nissan or Peugot cars but large "toys" for those with the money to afford a £50,000 Jaguar E-Type or a £120,000 Mulliner Bentley? Hardly the sort of pockets that "need" a VED exemption? I can understand the logic that when this was introduced there was no "online" taxation, no requirement for "continuous taxtion" and no such thing as a SORN declaration. Duty was lower too so perhaps it wasn't cost effective to have a vehicle taxed for just three months a year when it was used on the public highway? But now with VED at the level it is and the massive administrative savings enabled by "online" taxation isn't it time to think again? Quite frankly I think it scandalous that this exemption continues. So I'm writing to my MP this week asking him to pass on my letter to the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Or do wea all agree that the student nurse with her six year old Vauxhall should pay to use the road whilst the "banker" in his chauffeur diven Rolls Royce pays nothing in VED?

Edited by Rover 600 on 26/05/2010 at 17:33

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - madf

I take it this is a windup or is it just an ignorant rant? :-)

<i>Quite frankly I think it scandalous that this exemption continues. So I'm writing to my MP this week asking him to pass on my letter to the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Or do wea all agree that the student nurse with her six year old Vauxhall should pay to use the road whilst the "banker" in his chauffeur diven Rolls Royce pays nothing in VED? </i>

Scandalous? Yes there are millions of these cars clogging up our highways, wearing out the road surfaces and costing the taxpayer millions.

I am afraid most of those cars would be crushed if full VED was paid.. So your proposal is likely to have the impact of the law of unintended consequences..

As for students and chauffeurs comparisons, I throw up my hands. Life is unfair. You cannot legislate to make it fair..

You are wasting your MP's time with trivia imo.

And no I don't own any VED exempt cars so no axe to grind...

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - Rover 600

I am afraid most of those cars would be crushed if full VED was paid.

Really? Someone with a £120,000 Flying Spur would crush it because they had to pay £205 a year VED? And £30 million a year in tax exemption is "trivia"?

Edited by Rover 600 on 26/05/2010 at 18:12

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - NARU

There are relatively few E types and Ferraris out there - the more common cars are things like old Austin 7s and Morris 8s. And they are part of the industrial heritage of Britain, which once was one of the biggest manufacturing nations in the world.

The evidence is that these cars do less than 1,000 miles a year on average. And support a surprisingly big number of specialists and restoration firms.

The main museums are free. Why not keep a little of our industrial heritage alive too?

PS. If there was a way of easily making cars worth over (say) £5k pay VED then fine, but I can't think of an easy way and there really are not many of them.

Edited by Marlot on 26/05/2010 at 18:14

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - NARU

As to why these cars need a little help ... you do see cortina mk1s and mk2s around (which are exempt), but when did you last see a mk3? (or a mk4?).

When the exemption was originally granted, it was on a rolling basis, for all cars over 25 years old. That was then frozen at 1973.

As for your examples of bankers and ferraris; I think you're destroying your own argument

PS. I don't own a pre-1973 car. But I do smile when I see one still on the road.

Edited by Marlot on 26/05/2010 at 18:20

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - Collos25

A hint of jealousy I think,the break off point has to start somewhere and its been decided 1973.Why not sell your classic rover and buy one a year older if it bugs you that much.Personally and I would think most don't give a dam.

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - Andy P

These "old" cars are probably the greenest around - they've lasted a long time and probably do very little mileage each year, thus emitting less CO2 than a rep in a Mondeo.

While I don't like the whole idea of subsidies, there are bigger fish to fry than this - uninsured/untaxed drivers for example.

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - Mick Snutz

I partially agree with you Rover. It seems the government is missing a trick here with such a vast untapped market for increasing revenue into its empty coffers. Surely if owners of these vehicles are entitled to enjoy their weekend hobby of driving in the sun on a Sunday, why can't I do the same thing for free too?

You've only got to go to a classic car rally to realise how many of these cars are still on the road. I accept an older car may not cover a fraction of the mileage a modern car does but they still fill a space on the highway when driven, they still contribute in a small way to wearing out the road, the driver still makes the same use of traffic lights, road signs and cats eyes as I do and they still emit fumes from their uncatalysed exhausts.

I may choose to buy and run a modern car and only use it at weekends. Give me one good reason why I too shouldn't get cheaper tax on the basis of low usage?

If the RFL was sc***ped and the extra duty put on fuel it would solve this issue.

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - kithmo

I accept an older car may not cover a fraction of the mileage a modern car does but they still fill a space on the highway when driven, they still contribute in a small way to wearing out the road, the driver still makes the same use of traffic lights, road signs and cats eyes as I do and they still emit fumes from their uncatalysed exhausts.

If the RFL was sc***ped and the extra duty put on fuel it would solve this issue.

I agree with the last sentence, sc*** VED, but what makes you think that any of the Millions collected in VED goes towards any of the things mentioned above.

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - a900ss

If the total revenue raised by charging VED was £30m per year, it is not even a drop in the ocean compared to savings/taxes that we will be seeing in the near future.

The squeeze isn't worth the juice, as the saying goes...

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - SteveLee

Hmmm there lots of similar questions I could ask. Why did we subsidise a scheme to sc*** perfectly good cars just to line to pockets of car dealers? Why do we subsidise the lifestyle of indolent school drop-outs to out breed us? Why do we subsidise a nuclear armed country with a space programme just because it refuses to feed its own people? Why do drivers of large engined cars which use more fuel and therefore pay far more fuel tax to subsidise the drivers of little (free VED) rotboxes which are fit for the sc***heap when bigger, well built cars have a decade left of life in them and therefore much BETTER for the environment.


I can think of dozens of things we should stop subsidising before cancelling the classic car tax exemption which encourages people to keep beautiful old classic cars on the road and in use.


I'm sorry you run such a rubbish car but blaming other people for your misfortune is utter nonsense.

Edited by SteveLee on 27/05/2010 at 17:22

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - Sofa Spud

I've now come round to the view that there's not really any justification for exempting pre 1973 cars from VED, but then there's probably no point in lifting the exemption either, since it wouldn't generate much money.

If the cut-off date was a rolling one, as originally, then that would make more sense. But as 1973 passes further into history, the number of pre- '73 cars in everyday use will decline further and further.

If VED is introduced for these old cars, it should be at a low rate, though - say £50 - on the basis that most only do low mileages. Or perhaps the exemption could continue but only for classic cars with an engine capacity under 2000 cc.

QUOTE:..."Or do wea all agree that the student nurse with her six year old Vauxhall should pay to use the road whilst the "banker" in his chauffeur diven Rolls Royce pays nothing in VED?""

Also remember that the banker in the chauffer-driven Rolls-Royce can travel in those 'two-or-more' traffic lanes, while the nurse on her own in her Corsa can't.

Edited by Sofa Spud on 27/05/2010 at 17:17

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - SteveLee

Good for you, I've come to a similar conclusion (view) that there's no justification for decent, hardworking taxpayers to support illiterate, innumerate dross pumped out by the average collage (Univerciry! Ha!) in this country - there's not much I can do about that excuse eiither, as the political "elite" say this is "progress". Oh how I love "progressive" politics where our children cannot spell or add up against the millions of Chinese and Indian graduates who can. Do you still feel "progressive"? I call it wanton social suicide...

Edited by SteveLee on 28/05/2010 at 02:11

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - mrmender

YE GODS!

Is it anywonder i don't post on here anymore. HJ is the most anti car, car forum on the web

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - madf

mrmember

The entire subject revolves round the mindset that thinks that an exemption from paying tax is a subsidy and therefore wrong. but paying people to do nothing/tax credits/unemployment benefits are a right for all and therfore correct.

If you start from the viewpoint that taxation is inherently wrong, then a VED exemption is right.

Depends on your mindset. If you believe taxation is a good thing, then any allowance is evil...

Obviously the OP thinks taxation is a good thing...:-)

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - Westpig

I have a 1968 car that is exempt from having to pay RFL. It is insured for £2,000.

I see no reason why it shouldn't be exempt and judging from the comments I frequently get from all sections of society when i'm out and about in it, others appreciate it too.

It is a harmless hobby for many.. and most (including me) are not rich, what's the issue? The rolling 25 year exemption didn't apply to that many people in the big scheme of things and you pay more in keeping something like that on the road than a more modern car would ever pay in road tax.

The bit about bankers and nurses is pure drivel. If someone with a load of money wants to keep an old car on the road, good luck to them, I like to see them out and about. The other alternative is they'll be sc***ped.

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - Bilboman

I always thought that the exemption was something to do with the amount of road tax that the car's previous owners have already paid, i.e. after 30 years of paying it, we'll let you off. Putting aside for a moment that the so-called "Road Tax" is anything but, and that the lion's share of revenue raised goes to the Treasury and is emphatically not spent on roads... there are parallels with this "revenue expiry": all valid, reasonable arguments IMHO:

One example from Spain: tolls are sc***ped when a motorway reaches a certain age.

And in England and Wales, Free prescriptions upon reaching retirement age.

Free UK TV licence on reaching age 75. Not that there'll be anything worth watching (or interesting cars to drive!) by the time I reach that age...

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - b308

Personally I think they should reintroduce the rolling 25 year rule..

As Andy said earlier any money you would gain from taxing these cars would be peanuts compared to the money you'd get from catching those who choose not to pay their car tax/insurance...

And another thing, these cars you are talking about are usually far better looked after than most privately owned newer cars and they tend to be insured... and they support quite a large "industry" supplying bits and labour... which are also taxed... perhaps you need to look at the lost revenue if the classic car business folded...

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - Cliff Pope

You are distorting the meaning of the word "subsidy".

I pay income tax at only the lower rate. I choose a lifestyle that exempts me from having to pay at the higher rate. Am I therefore being subsidised by those who do?

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - AlanGowdy

I'm happy to 'subsidise' the survival of examples of our motoring heritage, if that is indeed what the exemption means.

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - Roly93

My view is that running a classic car is like any other hobby such as golf or angling which both have in some cases significant costs. So why should a classic car owner get free road TAX if they want to use the public highways ?

I dont thing there will be mass sc***ping of classic cars if they were asked to pay say £100 per year for the priviledge of persuing their hobby.

Perhaps I should ask for free golf club membership because I am pre 1973 !

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - Cliff Pope

So why should a classic car owner get free road TAX if they want to use the public highways ?

Because like pedestrians, cyclists, horse riders, children in prams, flocks of sheep, children playing hopscotch, they are not causing any maintenance costs.

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - John F

Because like .......... horse riders, .............., flocks of sheep, .......they are not causing any maintenance costs.

Pooh! Shouldn't they contribute to the cost of roadsweeping?

Edited by Honestjohn on 09/06/2010 at 20:00

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - Westpig
My view is that running a classic car is like any other hobby such as golf or angling which both have in some cases significant costs. So why should a classic car owner get free road TAX if they want to use the public highways ?

If you don't play golf much, you could pay a daily rate somewhere rather than a full year's membership.

I do less than 500 miles a year in my old car....and that's the point. They are usually used most infrequently.

You don't get taxed for the privilege of playing golf, but do have to pay in other ways..a bit like me having to pay for insurance, tyres and petrol etc.

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - AlanGowdy

I often read and occasionally contribute to this site because I like, and am interested in, cars and motoring topics in general. Because of that interest I would like to see at least a few examples of every marque and model of car that has graced our roads in the past continue to do so in the future. These vehicles tend to be cherished and cared for by owners who drive them responsibly and for modest mileages each year. Long may that be allowed to continue.

Edited by AlanGowdy on 03/06/2010 at 15:31

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - julie page

I have two cars, both manufactured in the last seven years. I only use one of the cars at a time, so I feel a bit hard done by paying two lots of tax

I do not know any other country that has VED, although I am probably wrong

I get a discount on the insurance for the second car

Edited by julie page on 03/06/2010 at 21:29

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - twohapence

Hello all,

Last weekend I sat in a massive queue as Henry and Henrietta went out in their VED exempt little treasure, rolling down dale at a massive 15mph and then struggling to maintain 5 mph going up hill.

Yes, these cars are part of our industrial heritage and the proper place for them is in a museum where they can be enjoyed by thousands. They should *not* be on the roads as they have no place in our transport infrastructure.

Two

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - Cliff Pope

They should *not* be on the roads as they have no place in our transport infrastructure.

You are making the common mistaken assumption that the roads are there solely for the benefit of people who want to travel quickly without any obstruction.

The roads are there for the entire population to use for a wide variety of lawful purposes,

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - AlastairM

Well said Mr. Pope, wouldn't do to get in the road of someone much more important and entitled to use the roads than us common folk!

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - mike hannon
What does have a place in 'our infrastructure' then? 20 million reps in diesel cars clogging up the roads and causing cancer as they do it, just to sell double glazing or solve the latest crisis at the photocopier shop? (as JC once memorably put it).
Yes, well said Mr Pope.
Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - dieseldogg

However however........they should exhibit some courtsey to other road users and pull in as often as necessary to clear their backlog, or stick to lesser used minor roads for their outings.

My mother, a decent god fearing mature woman, used some quite intemperate and indeed profane language when stuck behind a funeral cortage on the main Limavady to Londonderry road , driving at funeral pace, & absoluty NO chance to overtake, this for 12 or 15 miles .................this when she was going for a cancer scan ( see the old sympthay bit there)

cheers

M

Edited by dieseldogg on 04/06/2010 at 13:15

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - AlanGowdy

From time to time I get stuck behind a tractor or horse or funeral or traction engine or string of cyclists or truck struggling up a long gradient etc. etc. It doesn't happen that often and delays me perhaps two or three minutes on my journey time. Big deal. If I'm that late for an appointment I should have left home earlier!

Have a bit of tolerance please. :-)

Edited by AlanGowdy on 06/06/2010 at 11:39

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - twohapence

From time to time I get stuck behind a tractor or horse or funeral or traction engine or string of cyclists or truck struggling up a long gradient etc. etc. It doesn't happen that often and delays me perhaps two or three minutes on my journey time. Big deal. If I'm that late for an appointment I should have left home earlier!

Have a bit of tolerance please. :-)

Tolerance? Putting a "car" that is an unsafe unfit for purpose relic of a bygone era onto today's modern road system causes delay and frustration for hundreds and in some cases thousands of other road users. I find it hard to be tolerant of these acts of pure selfishness. Put them in a museum where they belong, don't drive them for miles along major arterial routes.

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - b308

There are lots of vehicles that travel our roads that aren't very quick... even new ones... I suppose you want them banned as well... and while you are at it why not ban slow drivers as well... the list is endless...

And they are not "unsafe", the only thing that is unsafe is a driver of another vehicle that is not aware of his/her surroundings... any competent driver should be able to deal with slower vehicles easily and without getting as wound up as you!

Edited by b308 on 07/06/2010 at 17:00

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - madf

Obviously this intolerance for old slow cars is a symptom of motoring angst brought on by feelings of inadequacy as a driver.. I am sure Freud would have explained it all porperly if he was still alive during the car era.

I suggest 3 weeks driving along single track roads with passing places, stopping for tractors, milk lorries, horses, cows and more tractors would do the complainers a world of good and teach them some patience.

Wait till they get stuck behind a 50 wheel leviathon moving parts for the next generations of nuclear power reactors.. Several hours of 5mph would teach them some tolerance..

Edited by Honestjohn on 09/06/2010 at 20:00

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - Rover 600

Obviously this intolerance for old slow cars is a symptom of motoring angst brought on by feelings of inadequacy as a driver..

Not at all! I have had many older cars - a Triumph Vitesses 6, a Bond Equipe, an MG ZB, a Austin 3 Litre, a Morris Traveller, a Sunbeam Tiger 260. Do I feel that as they were somehow a part of a motoring heritage I should be exempt from Road Tax?

Well, maybe when the cost to the country of taxing and retaxing them when they went off road probably cost more than the revenue. As others said when the squeeze was more effort than the juice it produced perhaps. But now? With online taxation?

No. And to argue that the owner of a £120,000 Bentley needs a subsidy of free Road Tax is quite frankly obscene when we hear today of free school meals being cut etc., etc. Or do these individuals have no morals about, literally, enjoying a "free ride"?

Edited by Rover 600 on 09/06/2010 at 19:11

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - Vitesse6

The £30m figure needs to be taken in perspective here, it works out at about 50p per head of population per year.

The contribution to the economy made by people keeping historic vehicles must far outway this, and judging by the large numbers of people who regularly turn out to classic car shows, historic vehicles are an important part of our national heritage.

Most people with a classic also have a modern car and so pay road tax on that, so the "free ride" argument fails in most cases.

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - meldrew

Vitesse6 - A succinct calm and rational summary of the situation!

As the owner of a 1977 vehicle I would be happy to pay more to maintain it and help the local economy if I did not have to pay a disproportionate VED. The views expressed by many in this thread make me despair!

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - nick1975

The 1973 cut off does seem to be totally arbitrary. I bet it was some kind of political compromise. So there is no logical justification.

So drop VED and up duty on fuel. Job done.

Edited by nick1975 on 06/07/2010 at 22:14

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - Vitesse6

Dropping VED and adding a cost to fuel would make most sense - all those tax dodgers would have to pay if the duty was collected at the pump, and those who use their cars most would pay most. If we all paid our whack, none of us would have to pay for all the dodgers. The Insurance and MOT certificates could be made into windscreen stickers so there would be no excuse for anyone not having one.

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - mike hannon
You've been to France then...
Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - Vitesse6

No - it's just common sense.

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - Charity77

No harm to anyone who has expressed views on this topic, but I am amazed at the self-centeredness of many of the contributors. I am someone who cares about people, and I work for a charity. As such I am in a low wage bracket, because (you may have noticed) charities don't always have a lot of money. Before anyone replies, "Then get a better paid job!", let me remind you that if some people did not join their ranks, then there would be less charitable organisations, and less people in need helped. Not many on this topic seem to have thought that people like myself have difficulty finding the now £ 70 for even six months of road tax on a smaller engined vehicle. For such as myself, a classic pre-1973 car is a practical matter as well as a pleasure, because £ 70 to someone like me is lot of money. I also live in a rural area, where public transport is scarce and infrequent. Finding the money for fuel can be hard enough every month. Just something a bit less self-centred to think about! - and no harm intended to anyone!

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - madf

Charity

Criticising others becasue they don't think of minority cases is imo totally unfair..

This thread is all about people's OWN opinions: as such it will be self centred...

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - primeradriver
I have to say that I cannot remember the last time I was "held back" by a classic car.

These cars, on the whole, seem to be driven by enthusiasts who know the rules of the road, and drive with consideration for others. They also tend to not particularly want their pride and joy to be shunted from behind, so drive in a manner that reduces the risk of it happening. Not so a lot of old Rover drivers!!

A 40 year old Cortina is perfectly capable of keeping up with modern traffic if driven properly. So is an old Morris Minor or Austin Cambridge. They are no worse than a truck, or a Daewoo Matiz, in terms of performance.

I'm not sure I like the idea of arbitrary taxation exemptions though. Scrap VED completely, and shift the cost to fuel. A far fairer approach IMO -- tax those who use the roads more a higher amount than those who use them less.

At the end of the day though what others pay in tax is none of my business, and I don't really care to be honest. Life is too short to worry about a couple of hundred quid here or there.

Besides, it's always nice to see an old classic from my childhood still on the road.
Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - carr

No - it's just common sense.

That's why the French system is precisely as you have described.

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - ianhad2
You are not paying for them, they are simply not getting charge, very different.
Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - AndyTheGreat
You are not paying for them, they are simply not getting charge, very different.

Exactly - they are not being subsidised at all. The OPs post is nothing more than sour grapes and a rant without merit.

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - mike hannon
Absolutely.
If someone else chooses to drive something interesting and you don't - and it isn't costing you and doesn't detain you on the road for more than a few minutes out of your lifetime - that's your problem.
Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - StagV8

Thanks for raising an interesting issue, as an owner of many classic cars, I have always been shocked that they are not taxed to the 'hilt'. It's worthwhile stating that I also own modern cars and that of course, I do pay tax on these vehicles. I own a bicycle, I read road signs and I use this for work, paying no tax on it.

The first thing to say of importance here is that these vehicles are a very important part of our heritage: they are not, for the most part being used to travel to work or add to the rush hour. This is a reason why they are also subject to low insurance: insurance firms recognise that they will be low risk, low mileage with very careful owners.

The classic car industry in the UK is a huge employer and one of the few remaining industries left for innovation and actual manufacture. Innovation in these areas include making new products to replace often inferior designs of the pre-1970's: the triumph stag is a good example of this, where new products are removing the poor quality timing chain issues and complete kits replacing coolant systems. To see how vast this industry is, search for David Manners online, a huge West Midlands Family Business employing directly many people and thousands in secondary manufacturing support. We are also seeing import of vehicles from the US dry states for expert restoration in the UK. The continuation of marques like Jaguar/Daimler and Triumph, Rolls Royce and Mini's also are good for brand GB: a reason why Mr Tata will keep producing Jaguar in the UK, a fact that helps these cars be such a strong export. A company close to me is importing and exporting classics, mostly back to the US; his business is employing skills that are now in many areas long lost, supporting local trades in leather resoration, acid dipping, chroming, wheel manufacture and engine kits. It is at this point that it is worth adding that he pays VAT on services and parts.

So my final point is this: I do not think I should be tax exempt on my vehicles. I do pay fuel duty like everyone else, I pay tax on parts. I also use the car for busiess and again, I pay income tax on this. One area of your argument that is flawed is that of student nurses. My full time job is as a Senior Lecturer of Adult Acute Nursing, before this, I was a Registered Nurse and I trained as a student nurse. Student nurses are often made out to be hereos, earning little and working hard. Well, this is true, they do earn little, they do work hard. But they do NOT pay course fees 8.5k). They are give a means tested bursary. At this point, many would retort the 'but they are angels, they should be given the bursary, it is right to do so'. If that is what you are thinking, then what about Dr's? Physicians Assistants? etc, et al. These professionals are important to healthcare, but they have to take out a student loan and pay it back. And they work hard too.

In this situation, it is not really constructive to use pejorative terms about classic car drivers or question their motives. I'm honest, when looking for a vehicle, the fact that it is pre 1972 is a bonus. But I don't lose sleep over being a tax dodger: I'm more interested in MP wages and expenses, why Gary Barlow and Jimmy Carr use tax avoidance schemes like K2 and why Vodaphone, Phillip Green, Google and Amazon are not paying their co-operation tax. Adding classic cars to the DVLA list of duty would cost more than the current scheme, would damage a successful industry and affect our heritage.

As for your house, well, if it was older, like our listed buildings, you would be able to register it in a Trust and gain charity status.

All the best

J

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - RT
As for your house, well, if it was older, like our listed buildings, you would be able to register it in a Trust and gain charity status.

But in the case of listed buildings, they can only be restored in an approved manner using similar materials and methods as original - and they can't be put in museums, unlike classic cars.

If you want to run an old car, that's fine - but any concession/subsidy from modern motorists simply isn't justified.

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - unthrottled

If you want to run an old car, that's fine - but any concession/subsidy from modern motorists simply isn't justified.

Neither is the tax break on modern 'eco' cars with theoretical CO2 emissions below 100g/km. Why are they currently exempt from the London Congestion Charge? Do they somehow not contribite to congestion and road wear.

If they really are efficient then the operator saves tax by way of using less fuel. If they aren't that efficient then they don't deserve a tax break.

Pre '73 historics are small beer in comparison.

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - RT

For both Ken and Boris, it was/is a matter of scoring political points - not about reasoned debate/decisions.

London congestion is self-limiting - when it's full it's full - it doesn't need schemes like the Congestion Charge to limit access.

I realised the other day the justification for HS2 - London has this obsession about being the centre of everything but can't build any more houses for it's population in the Home Counties so wants new commuters to live in Manchester and Leeds and travel daily - I actually think the real use of HS2 will be to escape London quickly !!

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - jamie745

If you want to run an old car, that's fine - but any concession/subsidy from modern motorists simply isn't justified.

For what it's worth, the NHS spends £30million in just over two hours.

Does your view of 'concessions' not being justified extend to little eco cars which are totally tax free and subsidised by me?

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - RT

I have no issue with fuel tax being used as the ONLY method of revenue raising from mororists - the more you use the more you pay, and vice versa.

I do take issue with other concessions to "encourage" change.

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - jamie745

I wasn't talking about fuel tax. I was talking about my £475 tax disc subsidising next doors pathetic little Ecomotive.

Why do we subsidise £30m pre 1973 VED exemption! - Cyd

Are you also going to rant about 'subsidising' all those brand new, zero VED cars like C1s et al? These are close to £10k, so their owners hardly need any help do they, lol.

Personally, I'm in the "put it on fuel" camp.