Mistakenly driving without insurance | Legal matters | Back Room Forum

What is life like with your car? Let us know and win £500 in John Lewis vouchers | No thanks

Sun 21 Mar 2010 19:48

Mistakenly driving without insurance - Audidothat

a relative of mine mistakenly took his daughter's car to get it cleaned without realising that he was only a named driver on his wife's insurance for their car. it never occured to him that he was not insured. He got stopped for not wearing a seat belt and the insurance issue became evident when he took his documents to the police station. He will now be prosecuted for having no insurance and for not wearing a seat belt. He currently has three points for a speeding offence. other than that he has had no driving offences in over 40 years. He never drives his daughter's car and this was a one off. He just made a mistake thinking he was insured when he wasn't. The whole scenario may now have the potential for his points tally to reach driving ban level. What advice would you give him on how to proceed? Should he contact a solicitor, appear in court or submit a written plea of mitigation or what?

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sun 21 Mar 2010 20:41

Mistakenly driving without insurance - Altea Ego

The seat belt is a fine and no points, the points range for driving with no insurance is 6-8 points so he wont get a totting up ban.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sun 21 Mar 2010 21:42

Mistakenly driving without insurance - Audidothat

Unfortunately not wearing a seat belt in Northern ireland attracts a fixed penalty and 3 points. The police probably brought the penalty in because a lot of people here failed to belt up.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sun 21 Mar 2010 22:04

Mistakenly driving without insurance - Altea Ego

Really? didnt know that - what about passengers?

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Mon 22 Mar 2010 00:06

Mistakenly driving without insurance - Audidothat

it would appear that adult passengers who fail to wear a seatbelt also get 3 points (presuming they too are licensed drivers). The driver is responsibe for ensuring that children under 14 use them.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Mon 22 Mar 2010 00:10

Mistakenly driving without insurance - Audidothat

checked another penalty list and it seems that passengers receive a fine but no points.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Mon 22 Mar 2010 05:51

Mistakenly driving without insurance - LucyBC

Points for offences committed at the same time are not cumulative, which means you can only be awarded points for the offence with the highest tariff.

So in this case it would be the insurance offence (6-8 penalty points) meaning the worst case with the existing points would be 3+8=11 points. The seat belt offence will only be "taken into consideration."

No insurance is an absolute offence not a matter of opinion - you have it or you don't - so there would be no alternative to a guilty plea.

There is a possibility of a Special Reasons argument - whereby he could present a case stating that he "believed he was insured when he was not" and the court would not penalise - but these tend to be only successful when the driver has been assured they were insured by the owner and when the owner is not related to them and/or if the case was centred on a non-payment issue.

My inclination is he should appear in court showing he is a respectable citizen and a good driver of long standing and this should help keep the points and fine down. but i think he has to accept he is likely to get six points which places him within one offence of a totting-up ban so he doesn't gain much on the points front.

by the way Northern ireland is unique in the UK for penalising the driver with penalty points for not wearing a seatbelt but any UK driver can get points for passengers not wearing seatbelts - although the law is usually only prosecuted if the passengers or children. The offence is carrying passengers at danger.

Edited by HJ publisher on 22/03/2010 at 08:38

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Mon 22 Mar 2010 21:36

Mistakenly driving without insurance - Devolution

Points for offences committed at the same time are not cumulative, which means you can only be awarded points for the offence with the highest tariff.

Lucy, do you know if equal offences are also cumulative if reported the same time? For example i was always told that driving on a bald tyre is 3 points and a £1000 fine, and that theoretically if you were caught with all 4 bald tyres that would be 12 points and £4000 hence an immediate ban from a clean license. would this be true as there is no higher tariff offence and each is recorded separately, or is it more of a myth and all offences would be recorded as one at the time under the blanket of another definitive offence for unroadworthy vehicle etc? thanks...

Edited by Devolution on 22/03/2010 at 21:38

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Tue 23 Mar 2010 07:05

Mistakenly driving without insurance - LucyBC

it's a myth, the maximum points a court can award for offences committed "at the same time" are those for the most serious offence. Furthermore points for several offences are never cumulative so the maximum for 4 bald tyres on the same car would be 3 points if that was the charge as laid.

You are right that some offences can be escalated however depending on the circumstances - for example bald tyres can be escalated to using a vehicle in a dangerous condition which can be fined at a higher level and can bring an obligatory ban for a repeat offender. Similarly a mobile phone offence can be prosecuted as careless driving. but the principal remains that the maximum penalty is that for the most serious offence - although a discretionary ban of up to 56 days is always available.

the slightly confusing one is the Section 172 offence of Failing to Provide information/identify driver. but it is possible for a person who was (say) speeding on one day to fail to identify themselves as the driver when requested to do so on the NiP delivered 14 days later.

in these circumstances the offences would be deemed to take place on two different occasions so the (maximum) 6 points for a speeder could be given as well as 6 points for the failure to furnish information as to driver meaning a driver on zero points could get an immediate totting up ban.

the good news for speeders are if they are caught on two speed cameras in reasonable proximity on the same day then we have successfully argued that these were in fact a single continuous offence and should this be punished with a single speeding penalty.

For such an argument to succeed the offences probably need to be on a single road with no junctions or roundabouts between the cameras to impede the speeder in their "single offence".

hope that helps...

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Tue 23 Mar 2010 10:25

Mistakenly driving without insurance - Devolution

@Lucybc, many thanks, that's a great answer and clarifies a lot. i was more aware of the second situation, in that you could tear down a 40mph road and get flashed twice and consider it one offence, but then if you turned off into a residential area a few minutes later and got flashed again in a 30mph zone that would be your second, rather than your third. Nonetheless, the scenario you describe, i believe, does form another motoring myth and i think it has even been asked on these forums before about what would happen if you got caught by 4 cameras along the same stretch of road....

@audidothat, apologies for diverting your thread slightly! :-)

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Mon 12 Apr 2010 14:20

Mistakenly driving without insurance - E.Patterson - Motoring Lawyer

Dear Lucy..

Its not a myth Im afraid !!

s.28 (5) RTOA 1988 states that the court can put points on for each of the offences committed if the court thinks fit and must state in open court their grounds for doing so. If you really annoy the court you can get points for two endorseable offences committed on the same occassion. Its unusual - but not a myth..!

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Ask Honest John

Sell Your Car

Real MPG

Fuel Calculator