Mazda 6/Mazda 5 - Mazda 6 Diesel DPF and Oil Level Problems - Legal | Technical matters | Back Room Forum

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Tue 16 Mar 2010 21:05

Mazda 6/Mazda 5 - Mazda 6 Diesel DPF and Oil Level Problems - Legal - velocityblade

As a Mazda owner new to this Diesel problem since I bought my Mazda 6 in January 2010, I seem to have fallen in at the deep end. I haven't had the oil level problem (yet) maybe bacause of the amount of motorway driving I do. But I have had almost all of the other problems I have read about on this site, to do with DPF.
I have written to Mazda UK and am not confident - given what I have read in this forum - it will get me anywhere.

I have written to the BBC Watchdog programme.

I have considered legal action as well.

However I am aware one or two contributors have already started down the legal path.

So I wondered if we would all have a better case if we all got together with one large legal action (a Class Action) which would also have the advantage of capturing the media's attention.

I am not a lawyer, nor do I know one. But usually if these problems are as widespread as this forum and others suggest, then we may have a better chance if we all work together to get Mazda to step up to their responsibilities.

Edited by velocityblade on 16/03/2010 at 21:06

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Wed 17 Mar 2010 09:45

Mazda 6/Mazda 5 - Mazda 6 Diesel DPF and Oil Level Problems - Legal - Med

Hey,

You sure are getting around on the posts. Ok.

Firstly, what response have you had from Mazda UK or the dealer? and did you have the engine over-run?

I know without a doubt what Mazda UK will say to your letter & will probably compare word for word what my letter says along side everyone elses. That's the problem i first faced because they were not taking me serious i had no choice but to stop paying their finance department (Mazda Credit) then they stood up and started responding but again with stupid answers. I had been in contact with a lady on mazda 6 forums (the link i posted on the other post) and she had a meeting with a mazda head technician, she put forward all the questions that i was dying to ask & nearly all of them were responded with i cant answer that right now, or im not too sure of that.

What a joke right? A head technician giving answers like that, Mazda UK are playing clever and are definetely treading on thin ice - which i hope us lot will one day break!

I am not bad mouthing the company, by all means! But i find it near enough illegal how they are taking these cases? and how they are not warning people of a diesel engine. They seem to be laughing at all of this because they think they can get away with it! "Read the manual and it says all" really, does it......

The legal side of things, ok! I have been working with my solicitor for the past 5 months now and we have gone down every avenue to try and come to a negotiation with Mazda but all tries failed as they stuck to their handbook line.... and how the over-run is my fault. I am currently waiting for one more engine inspection/legal company to take on my works as i have to find 3 in my local area (london) which is extremely difficult considering 80% of them refuse to touch this sort of engine, which therefor means the other 20% are COSTLY! Never-the-less all i need is one more company.

Watchdog are a WASTE OF TIME, seriously i have sent them recorded delivery letters, approx. 50+ emails, telephone calls, faxes etc. Never did i have 1 response......Newspapers, deleted my emails as the read receipt proves, car company reviewers such as which! ignored me. The one you thought who would do something would have been VOSA although they were contacting me and were very helpful they took mazda's word over myn and apparently there is nothing they can do until all of us here report the problem to them.. I know for a fact that 6+ people have done this report including me. I have the direct contact details of the guy you would need to talk to if you would like me to pass it onto you?

As far as media awareness is concerned i am in the process of creating a website/campaign but am finding it difficult where to start. Do you think you could provide me with the letters/documents that Mazda have sent you (visa-versa). This one site could help: http://www.thesite.org/homelawandmoney/activism/campaigning/owncampaign

Would you be willing to help me with this?

I suggest one thing you do immediately... contact VOSA and fill in a form. The link for the form: http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosa/repository/vehicle%20safety%20defect%20report.doc

What do you suggest? Or anyone else, please respond & would be lovely to hear from all of you if you would be interested in helping me....

Thanks.

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Wed 17 Mar 2010 20:33

Mazda 6/Mazda 5 - Mazda 6 Diesel DPF and Oil Level Problems - Legal - velocityblade

Wow - you have been busy!
I'll do VOSA once I am done here. Please let me have the direct contact you mentioned.

Yes I will help and have posted elsewhere we should get together and start a single group with greater momentum. Happy to be involved if I an help.
I did speak to a really helpful and knowledgeable lawyer today who has run "class action" lawsuits before. He said we should only do that as a last resort as it can be costly. He recommends we first form a true Action Group and see what pressure that brings on Mazda.
Your idea of a web site is perfect: with that underway, we should be able to re-connect with the media. I'm disappointed that you got no-where with Watchdog - maybe if we had a new Group, they would be more interested. It would be a bigger story for them. I'll also see what other media outlets could be useful.

I hope we can get others to step up and give their weight to this. The other 6 who have contacted VOSA would make a great addition if we can get them on board.

Last point - I have had almost nothing from Mazda so far - one letter saying I had a Case Manager appointed. That's it. Any other message has come verbally, second hand, via my Mazda Service Centre (who have been really good about this problem so far) so I am feeling badly let down on that front. As and when I get something I'll pass copies on and you are welcome to copies of letters I have sent to Mazda if that would help.

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Wed 17 Mar 2010 20:39

Mazda 6/Mazda 5 - Mazda 6 Diesel DPF and Oil Level Problems - Legal - velocityblade

By the way Med, I didn't have the engine overrun problem and the oil level has been good throughout ( I checked it before any and every long, 50+ mile, journey). I did have the overrun factory recall engine remapping done in February this year.
My problem has been DPF failure with no warnings until flashing lights and total failure! This combined with the bigger problem of power loss when driving. Almost the complete opposite of your overrun story. My car slowed down so rapidly it nearly caused problems (twice) as I was overtaking when the power went and all the cars behind me then queued up until I could drop back and pull over. In the outside lane of the London bound M4 this was no joke!

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Fri 19 Mar 2010 19:22

Mazda 6/Mazda 5 - Mazda 6 Diesel DPF and Oil Level Problems - Legal - Med

Hi,

Thanks to velocityblade he found this link, have you heard of this before?

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/HOT+HaTCH%3B+Mike%27s+life+up+in+flames+as+pounds+12,000+car+sets+his...-a0163023451

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Wed 24 Mar 2010 21:30

Mazda 6/Mazda 5 - Mazda 6 Diesel DPF and Oil Level Problems - Legal - bitter

Went to small claims court yesterday

Mazda are scared !!

Our case was adjorned. I can't explain why.

Why would Mazda send in a solicitor to a small claims court ?

We all need to fight this together.

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Sun 28 Mar 2010 19:26

Mazda 6/Mazda 5 - Mazda 6 Diesel DPF and Oil Level Problems - Legal - Altea Ego

Went to small claims court yesterday

Mazda are scared !!

Our case was adjorned. I can't explain why.

Why would Mazda send in a solicitor to a small claims court ?

We all need to fight this together.

Of course they sent a solicitor, you took them to court and they got a summons - what did you expect, them not to turn up and you win by default? OH you did didnt you!

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Tue 30 Mar 2010 15:09

Mazda 6/Mazda 5 - Mazda 6 Diesel DPF and Oil Level Problems - Legal - velocityblade

I thought this is a technically orientated forum looking at issues that we are not able to resolve on our own. The forum's strength is all of us working together to find mutually beneficial solutions.
I'm therefore disappointed in the above post. If Posters are not familiar with the judicial processes (how many of us have been to a small claims court?) then comments like this really aren't contributing anything to the forum discussion.

The key issue here is that by apparently not owning up to their responsibilities as a supplier of goods, manufacturers can pick us all off one by one. The time, heartache and cost of going to a small claims court as an individual is personally huge. For a manufacturer, it is relatively nothing. Which can mean we are all at risk of having our "rights" ignored by large corporations. Look at the Toyota cases running at the moment. They hid from their responsibilites and ignored individuals and even boasted internally that by doing this, they save circa $20M. Then someone died. That was the catalyst that got everyone interested and put pressure on Toyota to do the right thing.

Bitter seems to me to be doing the right thing. What the rest of us disappointed Mazda diesel drivers should be doing is supporting Bitter and the like. Med has started a campaign for all of us to come together and put pressure on Mazda to acknowledge and deliver the service they should be giving to their customers. Please visit www.mazda-campaign.co.uk to add your support to this group.

Bitter - Med may have already mentiond that I'd be happy to lend my time and evidence to your postponed court case. Please get in touch and let's work out how.

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Tue 30 Mar 2010 21:33

Mazda 6/Mazda 5 - Mazda 6 Diesel DPF and Oil Level Problems - Legal - velocityblade

By the way, if my understanding of Bitter's case is right, her court action was against her local dealer, yet (if I understand it correctly) Mazda Motors UK sent the lawyer.
If this is true it shows that Mazda are putting their weight behind what would otherwise be an insignificant and run of the mill small claim.
Now why would a huge multinational manufacturer, who, on reports in this forum, are seemingly reluctant to talk to their customers, be willing to put their muscle behind a dealer? Could it be they are thinking the dealer wouldn't be able to support themselves? Or could it be that they want to make sure Mazda Motors are defended even when they are not the defendant?

Or am I just a little cynical?

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Tue 30 Mar 2010 23:36

Mazda 6/Mazda 5 - Mazda 6 Diesel DPF and Oil Level Problems - Legal - rtj70

I am a happy Mazda6 143PS DPF driver. Yes the oil level has gone up at times (I sometimes do local driving more than long runs) but knowing it has a DPF and having read the manual I know all of this. And the bright yellow warning sticker on the engine cover is a clue to read the manual.

Could the first generation of DPFs work better - maybe but they have led to improved versions. All I know is it is important to understand your car. How th DPF in the Mazda works in not unique.

For drivers causing raised oil levels then a few extra oil changes may be needed at Mazda. Which won't do the car any harm anyway. Some of the alternatives like FAP need expensive eolys liquid and new FAP filters.

Next car I get might be a turbo petrol again. I have diesels for taxation purposes but like turbo engines.

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Wed 31 Mar 2010 18:04

Mazda 6/Mazda 5 - Mazda 6 Diesel DPF and Oil Level Problems - Legal - Altea Ego

I was merely pointing out that the poster was ill prepared for a small claims court process. Too many people are lead to believe that the small claims court will automatically come down in favour of the complainant.

Its not like that. Here is a question for you. Do you know

1 how many Diesels with the DPF mazda has sold?

2 Do you know how many of those buyers have had issues?

3 And of those - how many have driving habits that are unsuitable for *any* car with a DPF,

4 and of those - how many were not warned.

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Wed 31 Mar 2010 20:56

Mazda 6/Mazda 5 - Mazda 6 Diesel DPF and Oil Level Problems - Legal - Med

Altea Ego,

Your points - I am one of them, a simple search on the internet will bring up 20+ people of whom had the life threatening defect. Before you comment on that, it was of course life threatening hence the point in any sort of campaign, disputes & argument of a wrong design.

1. You see, the people with these diesels, perhaps their dealer was honest to them & mentioned they were only really suitable for long journeys, in my case this was not mentioned aswell as others. Hundreds of people have had these DPF issues but they were quickly warned by the dealer to come and have it fixed.. Why is it then that some people are getting charged for DPF regen's and some are not?

2. It's impossible to tell, if i were allowed to see a statistic database from Mazda UK with all problems relating to the DPF i could then answer your question, so that point is irrelevent.

3. Its not about that, it's Mazda's poor design, any specialist would agree and already have done so - they say the process is correct but Mazda's system is not. I.e. No warning lights, engine being self managed etc.

4. How many were not warned.... I was not, and if people were there would be NO sales in the diesel range.

I cannot see how anyone would see this design to be safe, if i nearly got killed from it then just the 1 case should be enough for Mazda to stand up & actually do something not just brushed under.............

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Wed 31 Mar 2010 21:14

Mazda 6/Mazda 5 - Mazda 6 Diesel DPF and Oil Level Problems - Legal - Altea Ego

Firstly, of course its not life threatening. To imply such you are saying ANY car that goes into limp home mode is life threatening. As tens of thousands of lots of different cars do this every day and no-one has died clearly that argument is totally spurious.

re your point 3 - you have an engineers report?

Not being disruptive here, just devils advocate and making you think a little more logically about this, rather than first hand emotion. Facts figures numbers technical reports will win against mazda, not emotions, heresay, assumptions and sensationalism.

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Wed 31 Mar 2010 21:30

Mazda 6/Mazda 5 - Mazda 6 Diesel DPF and Oil Level Problems - Legal - Med

Of course it is, maybe i misunderstood whether you know what happened to my car. The complete opposite, i had an engine over-run. My engine didnt stop revving and hit maximum revv's and i was 700yrds from a roundabout. I had no warning lights, and purley no warning this was going to happen & i was on a long stretch of road.

What would have happened if i were stuck in traffic in 1st gear and it over-revved like this?

I am in the process of an engineers report, but you ask any specialist about this situation and they will say the design process is wrong.

But for the people who had limp home mode without warning of a solid DPF light but instead an immediate flashing light on the motorway over-taking. How can that not be life-threatening? There are many stories similar to my own & others with limp home mode.

I agree, emotions should not play a part in this but when mazda are not listening to a word any of their loyal customers are saying then how could emotions not play a part. I'm in contact with a guy that owns a new volvo, his car had all these problem...Instead of volvo ignoring this like mazda they got straight on it, took the car from him, gave him a courtesy car, re-built the engine to make sure it wont happen again and monitored it for weeks to make sure the oil never rised too much, dpf regenerates as it should and all warning lights are working. I cannot find 1 customer with problems whether it be mazda 5 tyre wear, dpf problems or engine over-run of whom had this kind of service, it's bare minimal from Mazda and is just not on.

The limp home mode works, but without warning that does not.

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Wed 31 Mar 2010 22:34

Mazda 6/Mazda 5 - Mazda 6 Diesel DPF and Oil Level Problems - Legal - Altea Ego

>Of course it is, maybe i misunderstood whether you know what happened to my car. The >complete opposite, i had an engine over-run. My engine didnt stop revving and hit >maximum revv's and i was 700yrds from a roundabout. I had no warning lights, and >purley no warning this was going to happen & i was on a long stretch of road.

700 yards is nearly half a mile. You have brakes, you have a clutch you have common sense, you have loads of things that together make this a non lethal situation.

>but you ask any specialist about this situation and they will say the design process is wrong.

What specialist? who? if thats not in writing from a recognised qualified source it is of no value.

Facts - stick to Facts otherwise you will male chicken it up.

Edited by Altea Ego on 31/03/2010 at 22:35

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Wed 31 Mar 2010 23:27

Mazda 6/Mazda 5 - Mazda 6 Diesel DPF and Oil Level Problems - Legal - rtj70

>> if i nearly got killed

As AE says you had brakes and a clutch. Even if the engine could have kept running on diesel in the oil, selecting neutral and using brakes would have slowed you down. How you let it get to 100mph I have no idea.

These cars are safe but the oil level can go up and the owner needs to be aware (e.g. reading the owner's manual) and take action if necessary.

From your previous posts med you say you did check oil levels frequently so yours sounds like it had a problem that may not have been DPF related to me,

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Thu 1 Apr 2010 12:11

Mazda 6/Mazda 5 - Mazda 6 Diesel DPF and Oil Level Problems - Legal - Med

Rtj70,

I was travelling at 65-70mph on this road, this engine over-run was the last thing i thought would happen. Because previously, my car mat got stuck to the accellerator so my first thoughts was that car mat was stuck when i ripped this out it carried on. Honestly, for any-one this is the VERY last thing you would think would happen toa brand new car. Understandably if it said this in the handbook then i would have been warned.

My common sense was used, you go for the most obvious option then if that dont work switch the engine off, if i were left with a new engine repair bill becuase i didnt switch the engine off then i would have no case to argue with. When the engine is turned off, the brakes do not work aswell as well as the steering.

I had two choices, let the engine blow up or switch it off. The fact that with this 2.0tdiit has pull even in 4th gear, it takes no more than 5-10 seconds to get up to 100mph.

As always rtj70 i am fully aware of what the manual says - this is why i decline having my car fixed by the garage because i checked my oil levels eveery week & this still happened so it can happen again even after it being "fixed". I was offered a free service but declined. Because Mazda told me this happened because i was due a service which i was not.

I can't agree with the car being safe, with all the gadgets in cars now days, why is there not some sort of sensor that will detect a high volume of diesel mix with the oil and give the driver some sort of warning or at least put it into limp home mode so it just cant over-run. I strongly believe that they have missed something out.

What about the high oil warning light, do you not think that should be added to the system? If not, why?

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Tue 30 Mar 2010 23:33

Mazda 6/Mazda 5 - Mazda 6 Diesel DPF and Oil Level Problems - Legal - Avant

I'll leave this thread where it is, as quite a few people are posting on it. But if you need legal advice, we have expertise available on the Legal Matters section, which you're welcome to post on.

Edited by Avant on 31/03/2010 at 00:09

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Wed 31 Mar 2010 17:58

Mazda 6/Mazda 5 - Mazda 6 Diesel DPF and Oil Level Problems - Legal - velocityblade

Thanks for the thought Avant. There were no related posting under Legal when I started this. Maybe I should set one up and use the right forum for the right content. :-)

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Sun 4 Apr 2010 17:11

Mazda 6/Mazda 5 - Mazda 6 Diesel DPF and Oil Level Problems - Legal - velocityblade

Reading the last few postings there is much to reflect on.

Did any of the Toyotas that experienced Sudden Unintended Acceleration in the USA have clutches and brakes? Did people still die?

My guess is that when a car suddenly gets away from you, depending on your traffic situation at that time and how quickly you spot the problem and take corrective action, depends on whether there is a fatality or not. Med had 700yds or so to a roundabout. He seems to have taken evasive action well before he got there. Just as well. Others who suffer the same problem may not be so lucky in having the time and space to avoid hitting something: say, in a 50 mph moving queue on the M25, or approaching a bend etc. Isn't it a matter of time that enough of these run-away situations will happen that someone is likely to die? Just as they did in Toyota's in the USA?

The opposite situation - sudden slowing - isn't as dangerous but is nevertheless remains a potential danger. I am not referring to "limp home" mode. I am referring to the engine losing power and coming to a stop - similar to it seizing up. Instead of you hitting things as your car gets away from you, you end up being a "target" that others have to avoid as you slow down rapidly in situations where other road users have not anticipated that. Using brakes and clutch is the last thing you want to do in those situations I can assure you.

We do need to keep to facts as much as we can. We may have to rely on expert opinion when the facts are not available. We also have opinions of our own based on our own experience. I'd love to know the answers to the questions about how many Mazda Diesels have been sold, how many have had problems and how many have gone on for miles of faultless motoring. How many drivers were aware of DPF's and their shortcomings and how many were informed by the dealer that sold them the car that these types of diesels need special attention. I know mine didn't and I know reading the handbook doesn't really explain much about the DPF except the oil checking process. And the posts on this site about what the DPF light means when it is flashing or solid shows there are a variety of different understandings of what the handbook says.

I have been looking as to where I can find this information. I'd appreciate anyone's help in pointing me to the right places. AE, if you have some good information that you can send my way I'd be delighted to hear from you.

If I can return to the original point of this post, surely if all of us aggrieved Mazda Diesel drivers get together and share information, supported by anyone else who has an interest in seeing consumers being treated fairly and reasonably, we will get to the bottom of this once and for all. Maybe there is just a handful of us and the vast majority of Mazda Diesel drivers have no gripes. At least we would know. At the moment I am concerned each of us is a lone voice which can be (and seem to be being) easily ignored by a large corporation.

Edited by velocityblade on 04/04/2010 at 17:15

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Thu 8 Apr 2010 01:46

Mazda 6/Mazda 5 - Mazda 6 Diesel DPF and Oil Level Problems - Legal - Spankers24

Hi everyone,

I’ve just came across this site today and I thought I would post on it.

I have a 2.0 tdi 2006 Mazda 6 and have now experienced the dpf problem for the second time. The first time this happened was 10 months ago.

That time I was able to get the car repaired under warranty. When the car was left into the Mazda dealership to get repaied, I got it serviced and was told it need the fuel injectors replaced because they had been damaged when it over revved due to the dpf light flashing. So I paid for the service and they did the other work under warranty.

This time round though, which was on sunday, they’re not as helpful. I've been told that I now have to replace the injectors again as they have been damaged due to the over rev problem. Now this time I have to pay for it, which is approx £2000. I have asked them about the statement that’s on their own web site, which states any parts replaced are guaranteed for 1 year. I've now been told the parts replaced under warranty are not covered by the 1 warranty/ guarantee.

They have also tried to say it was because i havent done a lot of miles that the light has came on again.

Any help or info would be very helpful. I am now wanting rid of the car as i cannot afford to pay £2000 every 10 months to get new fuel injectors. Nor do i want to spend the next 10 months checking my oil everyday and praying that my car will take me to point b when i need it to.

Cheers

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Thu 8 Apr 2010 10:04

Mazda 6/Mazda 5 - Mazda 6 Diesel DPF and Oil Level Problems - Legal - Med

Hi Spankers24! Cool name? lol!

Another person, with the same problem. And Mazda's response, that'#s unfair.

Have you read my huge post about this, it's somewhere tucked in the archives. I had an engine over-run without any warning and Mazda are pointing this at me. This is why i have been without a car for nearly 10 months now and my 6 was brand new!

Was this at the same dealers where they changed this the first time round?

You mention over-rev, what exactly happened?

You can email me directly on contact@mazda-campaign.co.uk this way i am available 24/7 to reply. :)

Look forward in hearing from you.

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Thu 8 Apr 2010 12:39

Mazda 6/Mazda 5 - Mazda 6 Diesel DPF and Oil Level Problems - Legal - velocityblade

Hi Spankers I'd like to say welcome to the club but ...........
Do you know if the car has had the engine overrun factory recall mod done to the ECU? The mod came out in Feb 09 I believe. My car has a sticker on it on the bulkhead to say it has been done. If you aren't sure, ask your local dealer to check it's history or phone the Mazda helpline on 08457 484848 and ask for them to check your vehicle's history. You'll need the VIN and maybe the reg document to show you are the genuine owner.

If the mod has been done, it looks to me like you have a case to go back to Mazda UK to say thier mod has failed you and therefore the consequential injector damage is their responsibility.

If the mod has not been done, you may have a case with the dealer that fixed the injectors last time under warranty to ask them why they didn't carry out the mod when they knew they were repairing the overrun damage. There may also be some responsibility for Mazda UK too here as, if they approved the parts replacement under warranty, surely they have a duty of care to find out why the parts failed and should have told the dealer to carry our the overrun mod at the same time, knowing it was overrun that caused the problem.

Following up on Med's questions, were you driving the car both times you had the overrun, did you have to take "emergency" action, how did you deal with turning the engine off?

The point about parts being changed under warranty, only being guaranteed till the car warranty expires is legal but depressing. It doesn't seem right but it is the law. Your new parts now will be guaranteed by the dealer for 12 months.

Take a look at Med's mazda-campaign site too. The more of us that can put pressure on Mazda UK the better

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Thu 8 Apr 2010 21:42

Mazda 6/Mazda 5 - Mazda 6 Diesel DPF and Oil Level Problems - Legal - Spankers24

Hi velocityblade

Firstly i would like to say, i dont like being a member of this club! lol

I dont know about the mod for the over revving i was never told about it. I bought the car second hand so im not sure about work done on it by the previous owner. I will ask the dealer tomorrow and see what they will say about it.

I was driving the car both times when it happened. i was very lucky because te road was empty both times it happened. on sun when it happened i was changing gear from 4th to 5th and it over revved, filled the road with smoke and then the dpf light started flashing. i then pulled onto the hard shoulder, put it into gear and switched the engine off. That stopped the over rev.

I will check out med's site now.

Cheers for the quick replies and help

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Fri 9 Apr 2010 13:36

Mazda 6/Mazda 5 - Mazda 6 Diesel DPF and Oil Level Problems - Legal - velocityblade

Spankers

I have a phot of the Overrun Sticker from my Mazda6 if that would help you spot if yours has been done. Not sure how to load it into this forum site. If you would like it and can send me an email address, I'll send it over.

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Mon 12 Apr 2010 00:28

Mazda 6/Mazda 5 - Mazda 6 Diesel DPF and Oil Level Problems - Legal - Avant

This is just to move this thread up the page as it's referred to by a thread in Legal matters.

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