There is two problems with the UK.
1) New cars are very cheap compared with labour costs of garages.
2) New cars are cheap in terms of peoples income
3) Even back street garages now charge £50 an hour labour, this means what was once a routine fault such as a head gasket is now rendering cars scrap.
4) Rust - It is becoming less and less of a problem but it rains so much here that it does cause problems.
5) Snobbery in the UK, everybody has to keep up with the Jone's.
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The OP's original question was about what parts wear out though, not the pros and cons of Bangernomics as such.
So I'll stick to suspension; and maybe clutch if a car has done a lot of round town miles. I'm taking brakes / exhaust and other service items as read, although exhausts seem to last much better than the used to in my experience.
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I note the OP's car is a VW turbo diesel.
I don't know whether some types are more badly affected than others but a colleagues VW Touareg 2.5 diesel just needed £4500 spending on it at 80K miles. It needed new glow plugs, new injectors, new high pressure pump and something else to do with the inlet manifold, and I think new fuel lines too as the seals were suspect on the old ones.
I've seen this with other TD cars - Ford TDCI's apparently are very difficult to diagnose as they get older. I guess like my pal's VW, each part wearing a bit is, together, enough to cause all sorts of problems.
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In the past 10 years I have adopted a policy of never buying a car from a manufacturer with consistent design or quality problems.. which means never buying a new model until it has had 4 years road experience to show faults.
On that basis, never buy Mercedes.. see the current thread on blue efficiency..
Or Vauxhall.
Or Mazda diesels .
Or Renault anything...
Works for me.
Our 106 is now 17 and still going strong despite a diet of only very short journeys. Starts first time. The design was 2-3 years# old when we bought it and mechanically it has been strong .. and bodily very little rust. Sympathetic maintenance is a must...of course..
Garaging helps as well..
# 10 years old if you include the AX on which it was based...
Edited by madf on 16/02/2010 at 08:48
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Never.
All that wears out is your willingness to pay for repairs for a car that has become an unfashionable wreck.
In the third world the only limit is the skill of the local blacksmith.
Edited by Cliff Pope on 16/02/2010 at 08:53
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Hmmmm, interesting stuff. If im honest, then I probably am looking for an excuse to change, purely because I get bored. Reality is that my Golf has been lovingly cared for over the 30k miles I have had it, only filled up with Shell V-Power, regular oil changes, washed every other week etc, and its proably better the devil I know than something unknown.
The Volvos I have been looking at with 100k on the clock hardly look run in. Ive seen a couple of scruffy uncared for T5's but on the whole they all seem to have weathered the storm of time pretty well.
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Stunorthants>> Unless a car has major engine or gearbox failure, no car really wears out
>>anymore, they just become beyond economic repair,
To me that has nothing to do with wearing out. A blown up engine, with a 5k bill on a 3k car is single major component failure.
A worn out car is one that might be worth £1,000 were it not for requiring:
1. A new exhaust, the current one held together with paste, a tin can and jubilee clips (£300)
2. 4 new tyres (£400)
3. New engine mounts (£400)
4. A bit of welding (£300)
5. A new wheel bearing (£200)
6. New wiper blades (£10)
7. The radiator leaks a bit
8. It drips oil everywhere
9. New suspension bushes (£200)
etc. etc.
None of these items is a major, sudden failure. They all relate to long-term wearing out. None of these, of itself, will write a car off. The combination, however...
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Agreed MM, and if that £1000 car had a different badge on it and was thus worth £2500, it wouldn't be "worn out" by that measure.
That is why I stand by my original statement that a car is worn out a period of time after it dips below £1000 in value. For a Proton that might be three years old, for a VW probably 12.
Which makes cars like the old Micra all the more remarkable given that some have been worth less than a grand for the last 15 years and are still hauling themselves around!
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>>That is why I stand by my original statement that a car is worn out a period of time after it dips below £1000 in value.
No. There is no absolute. If the car is a luxury car, the limit might be 5k below which things just don't get fixed.
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My cars wear out (in my mind) when they are three years old or more and I have the indignity of having to take them for their MOTs. It's then that I yearn for another new car and that lovely new car smell.
Oh, well, I've have had my car 6 months now and so have another 30 months or so to go until I get that feeling again. New car, new tyres, new exhaust and new everything and at least 3 year's warrantee - bliss.
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One of my worries in this area has just receded. I'd been concerned at the cost of replacing the six airbags in my seven-and-a-half-year-old S60 at the ten-year mark recommended in the manual. But it seems that in 2003 (mine dates from October 2002) Volvo changed its advice - even for older cars - to an inspection at ten years and eventual replacement at 15.
The reasoning seems to be that in 1994, when the ten-year mark was set, airbags were so new that no-one really knew how long they'd last. Experience since then has been that they're durable enough to go on for longer.
Which leaves only the split in the upholstery and the crack in one radio knob as possible justifications for replacing my car; not really enough, is it?
Edited by WillDeBeest on 16/02/2010 at 14:36
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No. There is no absolute. If the car is a luxury car the limit might be 5k below which things just don't get fixed.
I'd call that the exception that proves the rule to be honest. Luxury cars are always in a class of their own.
I was thinking specifically of mundane cars.
I think it hits on the my basic way of looking at cheap cars. As I say most ordinary cars will start to fail around 5 years after they hit a certain value, be it £1000 or whatever, but there is some variation.
The key to a good model is to identify the age at which the car hits that price point, then look at how many cars older than it are still going compared to how many were sold in the first place.
If you can come up with a good guesstimate for that equation you've got what older cars represent the best value, measured in terms of how long you'll get out of them for the money -- it's no good looking for a £1000 car and looking at cars that last 20 years if the only ones you can afford are 21 -- the car that lasts eight but you can get a three year old example of for the same money is a better bet.
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Over the last few months i have seen a few vauxhall cavaliers mk3 sri now these must make a good old banger still going strong.
H plate so 1991 still going nothing too expensive to repair back then and reliable old bus.
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Over the last few months i have seen a few vauxhall cavaliers mk3 sri now these must make a good old banger still going strong.
There were a load of these sold as well which skews your viewpoint on them.
I had a high-mileage Mk3 Cavalier in around 2002. Whole load of trouble -- steady stream of niggly daft problems that cost small amounts each time but added up to quite a bit.
No better than average IME.
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Of course, if you are into marginal motoring - which if a car is over 10 years old , you HAVE to be (just to get cheapish spares).. then
You buy a car which is reasonably plentiful
..
You look for spares from breakers, surplus stock and ebay..
No-one in their right mind spends £4,000 for a new engine for a 10 year old Toyota Yaris 1.0. But £300 with a 3 month warranty makes used sense.
No-one spends £90 on a front ABS sensor when you can buy a pattern one from Germany for £36.
No-one spends £90 on new front discs from Toyota when new pattern ones are £40.
No-one spends £200 on anew engine mountings when £35 buys a perfectly good s/h one.
And only a fool buys a car which is not galvanised nowadays without wasoilling or other derust treatment if he/she wants to keep it for years.
And no-one spends £70 on a new tyre for running around town when £40 buys a budget one.
And so on..
Edited by madf on 16/02/2010 at 15:14
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And only a fool buys a car which is not galvanised nowadays without waxoiling or other derust treatment if he/she wants to keep it for years.
Unless you buy a Volvo which seem to be virtually immune to rust and the earlier ones are not galvanised. Not sure if the newer ones are either.
The BMW 5 series and I think the 7 series are part galvanised which explains why you see so many early ones in good condition bodily.
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A car is worn out a period of time after it dips below £1000 in value.
Why? If the Proton you mention is not going to cost that £1000 for another 3 years, does that mean you get rid now? That makes no sense at all. If you calculate that the £1000 is needed for the next MoT, that is a different matter.
It's the same old arbitrary argument about dumping a working car as soon as it looks like being worth 3 figures instead of 4. If it costs nothing to maintain for a year, the only reasons to get rid are boredom, apparent loss of status, or maybe discomfort.
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Once the tin worm sets in on major structural components it is time to say goodbye, unless you want a project.
A friend keeps his almost worthless N reg Escort going - may cost him a few hundred quid every year to keep running, but it's not rotting yet and it serves him well. It went to Italy and back last year!
Edited by daveyjp on 16/02/2010 at 15:36
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>> A car is worn out a period of time after it dips below £1000 in value. Why? If the Proton you mention is not going to cost that £1000 for another 3 years does that mean you get rid now? That makes no sense at all.
It's the same old arbitrary argument about dumping a working car as soon as it looks like being worth 3 figures instead of 4.
I am only stating that that is what most people think, and because that's what most people think, so it follows that that's how most cars wear out. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. I certainly don't live by it, I'm saying others do.
Not all of us follow the rule, least of all me. I, only last year spent £230 on changing a cambelt on an old Daewoo that passed the grand mark a very long time ago indeed.
I take advantage of this old chestnut (and it is same old same old, I agree with you). I deliberately buy as second cars, cars whose value sinks like a stone but has been looked after well, because it's a great way of short-circuiting the theory.
We were given the Daewoo by my old Grandad 7 years ago. It was probably worth about £600 then. Perversely, if you look on the Trader they're still selling for about £600. It's not given any trouble to speak of. It'll probably run another 2 or 3 years at least before it's a wreck. I'm happy with it.
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My view which might be controversial as I see a lot of back roomers proudly running cars to stellar mileages is that modern cars deteriorate badly at around 70K miles, I don't like shiny steering wheels or gear levers, hate rattles and dull paint so I (given the choice) change well before this point.
My (admittedlyl not so recent) experience is of big bills after 70K miles e.g. aircon failures, oil seals, cambelts, brake disks, exhausts etc Mostly things which others might be happy to drive their cars without - but not me. Cars of this mileage tend to be cheap (for a reason), you pay your money and make your choice.
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I defy anyone not to love the feeling of slinging some old heap into a space, walking away leaving the door ajar while you get a coffee, and not looking back to see if anyone's parked too close.
Therapeutic...
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I defy anyone not to love the feeling of slinging some old heap into a space walking away leaving the door ajar while you get a coffee and not looking back to see if anyone's parked too close. Therapeutic...
Yeah, I know what you mean, I don't leave my lovely blue Vectra unlocked, but it's nice not to have a panic attack when I leave it in the door dingers' section of the Asda car park, or when I scrape the nearside down a hedge on a narrow New Forest lane. The aircon still works, all the CDX toys still work, it goes fine, just getting a bit clonky in the suspension dept.
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It follows that that's how most cars wear out.
Sorry, p-d. I thought you were using the words literally. For me a car (or any other thing) is 'worn out' when it is kaputt, knackered, not reasonably repairable. By reasonably I don't mean that you don't wish to fork out, just that so many parts are becoming time-expired it's not worth the hassle. And I think that may be what the OP meant.
Spending more to change to a newer vehicle than it would cost to fix the old one is always an option, whether it is worn out or not.
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For me a car (or any other thing) is 'worn out' when it is kaputt knackered not reasonably repairable.
Same for me as well... and thats why I don't think that you can put a figure on it like someone did earlier... I have a 15 year old car outside and it has plenty of life still left in it... and its worth far less than a grand!
Going back to the OP, I'd have thought that you could keep that Golf for many miles yet... better the devil you know, and all that!
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