There have been a couple of `advice` posts recently which risked engine damage in one instance and at best, a waste of money in another.
I mean - *really* uninformed advice posts - so basically incorrect it makes you cringe reading it.
Point is, someone who knows nothing about cars may visit the Forum and think he is getting advice from an `expert` - or at least someone with a smattering of knowledge - but really he is communicating with his peer. (at best)
There are Tech`s and armchair experts - then at the lowest possible level beneath that incorrect `advice` - when the writer must surely know they know nothing on the topic but present it as (one at least presumes informed advice.
Dispiriting - the Tech`s are weary of `armchair experts` - now they too are challenged by the guy (s) who knows nothing technically - but who have found a soap box.
Free speech? Sure. I`m not suggesting a `plonker` marker at the side of these posts - but you wonder if actual tech`s should have a means of identification.
How about a software programme that would run an algorithm on all `advice` posts and attach a marker - `plonker` to `expert` - depending on content.
You wish! ;-)
(There`s some humour mixed with despair in this thread)
All the best
oilrag
Edited by oilrag on 10/02/2010 at 08:46
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Haynes' "one to five spanners?"
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Are we to draw our own conclusions about the quality of your advice from your name, Oilrag??
I may have to start posting as 'dipstick' or 'spanner'.
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I may have to start posting as 'dipstick' or 'spanner'.
I believe one of those options is taken.
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Somebody keeps suggesting coating all underbody components with a thick layer of grease!
;-)
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You get it on the internet, you get it in the pub, you get it wherever you go - the guy who once read a book, or saw a TV program, and who then thinks he knows more than the experts. It happens everywhere, in ever walk of life.
In this case, those of you who DO know something need to contradict mistaken advice when you see it. OK, some people will choose to believe the idiot rather than the person who actually knows what he is talking about, but that's life, too.
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Somebody keeps suggesting coating all underbody components with a thick layer of grease! ;-)
This has to be the funniest thing I've read all day!! Nearly spat my coffee out...
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I had also noted the same thing. Sometimes it is well intentioned - but a brief look at some of the lengthy questions raised by ''a poster" followed by apparently 'good' advice in another thread raises worrying questions.
Several very experienced people have also been guilty of giving potentially dangerous advice - one of the best (worst?) examples that immediately comes to mind has been the use of 'friction modifiers' applied to threads despite in depth coverage by the true expert.
I think that has reulted in the loss of several expert posters over time.
I now am rapidly trying to think of any advice that I have offered in the past which may have a questionable basis!
I dont think that any automatically applied algorithm would work; it would require answers to be vetted and marked - but the question is who would (or could) do it? If we are not careful it could stifle a very useful site, which is streets ahead of many other 'technical' sites.
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That is why we have a couple of disclaimers for anyone taking advice from others in this forum:-
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=60797
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=33875
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That is why we have a couple of disclaimers for anyone taking advice from others in this forum:-
Perhaps there should be one in the Discussion stickies as well (if there isn't already)? Just as a back-covering exercise mainly.
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Bring back Aprilia!
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I think Tyro has hit the nail on the head, there have always been armchair experts, the internet just gives them a wider platform to broadcast from. People have to be grown up enough to realise that they are receiving advice from a bunch of random strangers and try to filter out the chaff, I can't see any alternative.
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>>I mean - *really* uninformed advice posts - so basically incorrect it makes you cringe reading it.
It's no different to what happens in many garages. Some mechanics have some very odd ideas about how to do the job, and to an extent they have a shocking amount of freedom to make it up as they go along.
A lot depends upon the garage. My father ran his independant garage on rather strict lines, and you either worked his way,* or you didn't work. In a franchised dealer, on the other hand, a tech is more likely to be visited by the service manager to discuss the reason for a drop in his chargeable hours rather than to receive technical instruction.
* Sometimes his way was not best practice, but no-one dared question it!
The disclaimer in the tech forum came about after an offline discussion between myself and Mark (RLBS). I was concerned that if after a long and confusing thread a DIYer did something daft, or lethal, then posters who had contributed in good faith should have some form of protection from this site.
I prefer the "free speach" approach we have at the moment. Any attempt to change the status of some posters relative to others would be a bad move IMO. Evidence and lively debate rather than dogma are the best ways to get to a better understanding - even when it shows I'm completely wrong!
Edited by Number_Cruncher on 10/02/2010 at 10:50
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Bring back Aprilia!
... or Screwloose - especially for Pug owners.
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>>I now am rapidly trying to think of any advice that I have offered in the past which may have a questionable basis!
>>>>
Me too.
But it's not quite as simple as correct v incorrect advice. The soundness of any advice, expert or ignorant, depends very much on the degree of competance or common sense of the person being advised.
I remember once someone asked how to tell if an apparent water pool was rainwater or coolant. A regular member suggested very cautiously tasting a tiny spot.
Vey sensible advice for someone with an ounce of common sense, lethal for a clot who thereby assumed antifreeze was safe to drink.
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>> Vey sensible advice for someone with an ounce of common sense lethal for a clot who thereby assumed antifreeze was safe to drink.
>>
It's not? *Hic*
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Regulation and rating posters is a complete non-starter.
How do we work out who is expert and who is not?
We are all largely anonymous on here and there's no resources to do it.
Anything way off beam will be challenged.
And is anyone daft enough to make a big decision solely based on something posted by someone with a made up name?
As I've said on here before, there's a lot of garbage on the internet and it's very much reader beware.
Years ago, an internet pioneer likened it to me as graffiti.
I mean, George Davis might be innocent OK, but you can't be sure of that from something scrawled on a railway bridge - or on a website.
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I mean George Davis might be innocent OK but you can't be sure of that from something scrawled on a railway bridge - or on a website.
Someone once said, "Guinness is good for you". NOW they are an expert!
Morning all............MD
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And is anyone daft enough to make a big decision solely based on something posted by someone with a made up name?
Yes. Human stupidity is one of the few things in this world that is truly without limit.
(Like Murphy, I am an optimist.)
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You can normally tell what's good advice and what isn't, as the poor advice is decryed by others. There's also the possibility that the guy who "knows nothing technically" (?) may contribute something original/useful that the "Tech`s" have not thought of. This is a "discussion" forum, after all.
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;-)
I think that this thread is completely misguided, and dangerous.
I don't think oilrag is qualified to express his opinions and the thread should be deleted or hidden before someone gets injured.
The only people you can trust to give you 100% accurate technical advice are the mechanics at the main official (franchised) dealers. You cannot trust the manufacturer, as Toyota/Lexus owners will testify.
Also, all the responses here are plain wrong, including this one of mine, and should be read with great caution.
;-)
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It could be that all of the advice on this forum contravenes Health and Safety regulations. Let's face it, how many people have done a risk assessment before making any suggestion? Did any of you experts engage a solicitor to protect you against the legal onslaught when someone tries to sue you for advice which went wrong?
And if I follow the advice which tells me to not do something, that recommendation will infringe my human rights to make my own decision so I will sue the person who advises me against anything
Edited by Armstrong Sid on 10/02/2010 at 11:43
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Maybe an enhanced CRB check should be a requirement before anyone is allowed to give advice? After all, there are females and vulnerable youngsters who post here...
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It's the internet - and it's a free forum. The advice is "worth" exactly what you pay for it. That's not to say that all advise is useless, as it clearly isn't. But nothing should be taken as gospel.
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you need a qualification , to post on here , I have one : IKBA
( .*********
with honours and bar
Edited by freddy1 on 10/02/2010 at 12:35
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My father was firmly of the opinion that one should never let facts interfere with a good argument.
This also appears to apply to tinternet forums.
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Thats it, its a free forum that anyone can join - you dont have to pass any tests - but whats the alternative, at the very least you can get a idea whats wrong in a freindly atomosphere before you seek proffesional help at the end of the day you may learn something.
Im not the most technicall person around i know a little about cars and how they work, I love this forum but i cannot contribute a lot becasue of work & family commitements and also i dont know that much about some of the isssues that are posted on here - I dont contribute a lot becasue i dont want to be a armchair expert or give bad advice - sometimes I feel a little bad if i come for advice as i dont really give a lot
i only found out what a DPF and DMF was through this forum i wouldnt have had a clue otherwise.
Basically I think this is fantastic however if someone gives bad/incorrect advice it should be "discussed" in a friendly way i dont think there is anything wrong with that.
however whoever is following that advice should take on board that it may not be correct and seek proffesional mechanical advice if still unsure
Sorry if I have spoken out of turn
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Don't believe this is written down anywhere but I have heard it said that advice is worth what it cost you.
Just as you could not sue the man in the pub that tells you a handfull of sand in the oil filler will work wonders for your fuel usage you would struggle to sue someone giving advice on an internet forum.
Pity Lord Deming is dead - "the law is not there to prevent a fool from being parted from his money."
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Don't believe this is written down anywhere but I have heard it said that advice is worth what it cost you.
I wrote it down about 15 minutes ago :p :p :p
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People who accept internet forums as gospel also believe the nice women and men who write to you saying they want to transfer $7 million into your bank account from Nigeria.
Any fool knows it is unlikely to happen... but some people do lose lots of money.
Now if it was $14 million, I would accept it :-)
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`oilrag` as a forum nick was always intended as a metaphor about humility and knowing one`s place.
Come on, lighten up ;-)
Edited by oilrag on 10/02/2010 at 15:08
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Too true, oilrag. I post on another forum in an area where I have considerable technical expertise. Somebody posts on there in a pseudo-professional capacity, and even touts for business on there. Yet some of his advice is wrong, and some just downright fanciful.
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Free advice given freely, free to take it, free to leave it.....................................
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There has been so much hoo ha and bad feeling on here lately, I wont give any advice to anyone about anything. A simple direct answer to a direct question* is all thats forthcoming.
*is your car black yes/no
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I know absolutely sod all about the mechanics of a car, which is why I rarely post in the Technical section...yet have just posted something in the recent Jag X Type thread re a sticking door lock, because i've experienced that and taken on board good advice from someone who does know what they're talking about...so despite a noticeably low knowledge on a subject matter, I can still post something useful.
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That`s top rate informed advice/information then Westpig.
Edited by oilrag on 10/02/2010 at 19:49
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I get annoyed about this on computer forums or questions when somebody says my laptop is running slow or I can't get rid of AntiVirusPro2010 or what ever the advice is always format it, the most users this is actually the worse thing you can do.
I do sometimes post in technical but I am very careful what I say and I only comment if I have had the same problem with one of my cars and have a good idea what the problem is and how to fix it.
With these sort of forums you just have to use common sense when it comes to what advice to take. I don't think I have ever been given bad technical advice on here from what I can remember.
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It's a good idea to keep the tyre pressures on the offside of your car about 5 psi lower than those on the nearside to compensate for the effect of the camber of the road.
Change the oil about half as often as the manufacturer suggests as the extra viscosity of new oil can be a shock to the system and can lead to engine failure.
LOLOL
Edited by Sofa Spud on 10/02/2010 at 20:40
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I knew a bubble of humour would escape and surface - eventually ;-)
Lets have more of it!
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And always carry a battery pump in case it goes flat.
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And always carry a battery pump in case it goes flat.
not forgetting the left handed screwdriver.
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I had to use a left handed screw driver at the weekend to remove the battery from the Fiesta. I then used a glass hammer to put the connectors backl.
I also put Olbas oil in the coolent so I can breath easier when sniffing exhaust fumes.
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I gave myself some uninformed technical advice over a period of several weeks.
I would go to start the car, not having used it for several days. It would fire instantly and die instantly, then refuse to start unless I left it for about half an hour. After the wait I could drive it wherever and it would restart without problems.
Aha, I thought, the wait indicates a fault with the alarm/immobiliser, so I started leaving it unlocked and the problem went away for about three weeks.
Then, last week, it refused to start after the initial fire/stop/wait routine. Left the battery on charge and it started next day. Went shopping and it refused to restart in the supermarket car park.
Breakdown truck called and taxi home.
Given all the above, what's your diagnosis?
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Given all the above what's your diagnosis?
That you need to consult a mechanic perhaps ?
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Given all the above what's your diagnosis?
Make, model, year, fuel type, does the engine turn over at a decent speed when it fails to start?
Edited by Dox on 10/02/2010 at 23:36
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A dead spider is bridging fuse 32 in the fuse box. It`s fifth leg is causing the problem - the Can-Bus system is sending it command signals instead of the ignition coils.
Edited by oilrag on 11/02/2010 at 05:25
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Once it started after half an hour I would have gone and bought it a brand new battery:)
Pat
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Mondeo, 2000, petrol, and nothing wrong with the battery.
Since the garage solved the problem, I will be able to reveal the cause.
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Mondeo 2000 petrol and nothing wrong with the battery.Since the garage solved the problem I will be able to reveal the cause.
Battery terminals or engine earth loose, corroded or broken if the engine fails to turn over (you never answered the question)
Coolant temp sensor most likely from cold
Crank angle sensors usually fail when hot
But the best advice would have been to have it scanned to reveal any stored faults, anything else is a guess
Edited by Dox on 11/02/2010 at 13:24
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Turned out to be the fuel pump!
Took many weeks to totally fail, performed perfectly for three weeks after I stopped locking the car in the belief that it was an alarm/immobiliser fault, because it usually worked if I waited for the alarm reset period before trying again.
Car must have a built-in sense of humour.
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Maybe an enhanced CRB check should be a requirement before anyone is allowed to give advice? After all there are females and vulnerable youngsters who post here... do you mean pologirl and rattle by any chance?
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And if I follow the advice which tells me to not do something that recommendation will infringe my human rights to make my own decision so I will sue the person who advises me against anything
Well said Sid.
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"infringe my human rights"
`Freedom of expression` - to express one`s beliefs... although the forum is not a Public Authority - but private - regarding restriction of content or expression of (or being affected by) flawed advice.
Or so it seems from memory. It`s five years since I worked with The Human Rights Act.
Good morning!
Edited by oilrag on 11/02/2010 at 07:12
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It strikes me that we could start up a similar thread about people who ask "what is the best car for...?"... so many different answers, so many different cars...
Pinch of salt time...
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Nice one!
It's like when someone asks about tyre pressures on a given car, one answer is "Look on the side wall", or 30 psi all round.
My car would go off the road with those answers.
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ianhad2 the customer asks what have you put in them
you the tyre dealer asks what do you normally have in them?
customer replies 32 all round
you reply thats what i put in them sir
obviously one old pink fluffy dice comes back next week and says i have a leak as my tyres are down to 30 but they are rare and easy to deal with,plus most ladas are now scrapped since i did the black stuff
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 12/02/2010 at 00:22
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I wonder how much 'uninformed advice' is because contributors don't read the full thread.
A typical example is here: www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?f=2&t=82...w
The OP states a few threads down that he's in Sweden. I don't know what products and services are available in that country, but contributors go on about red diesel and chip shop oil.
There's another prolific contributor who obviously doesn't fully read replies.
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Lets not get carried away.
Anyone who ask for advice on any website must realise that there is no responsibility for any advice given. If his engine blows up then thats his problem.
People need to get "expert" advice from the garage or dealer concerned for expensive problems, that way he does have a legal cover of some sort.
Lets not start policing the web/ forums. We are not in a police state...... yet...
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...Lets not start policing the web/ forums...
Well, let's not start policing this web/forum any more than it is at present.
Edited by ifithelps on 13/02/2010 at 13:55
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If you bothered to read the post the op does ask if he can use diesel instead of oil so red diesel if used would be far cheaper than the stuff at the pump & somebody else further up the thread said use red.
As for the chippy fat with batter i was extracting the urine engage a sense of humour don't take all posts too serious it's a discussion not that the boiler has anything to do with a motoring forum but still a interesting read.!
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If you look at hotukdeals the thread has a Hot or Cold status, which is brought about by other forum members "voting" on whether the deal in the thread is good or not. WHich on the face of it seems a good idea.
But people vote cold because they don't like the product, or there isn't a branch of the particular shop with the deal near them, or simply they don't like the person who posted the deal.
If you gave the "voting" button just to "trusted" forum members then I suppose you could give some credence or otherwise to advice.
The regulars in any forum must have an idea who's reliable and who isn't.
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Another variation on Bathtub's comment is the misinterpretation of a post, most of us have been guilty of reading a post in a different way to what the poster intended, and unlike a face to face conversation its easy to get mislead and hard (and time consuming) to put right any misunderstandings!
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>>the misinterpretation of a post
Talking of that, we haven't heard any more from Monica for over a week. We never did discover if the VIN in the window matched the V5 or not.
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Well there was guy who posted, or I suppose it could have been a woman (or maybe a 12 year old boy who reads Autocar and follows his dad when it comes to cars as he does with football) anyway he/she (delete as applicable) said that he/she (delete as applicable) is in the trade and that they get lots of Renodaordoyatagens through with engine failure and brake failure and steering failure and rusted through after six weeks so all Renodaordoyatagens must be carp then musn't they, eh?
;-)
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Look at this: www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=82975&...3
Is he advising some to 'crack an injector' on a common rail?
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>>The regulars in any forum must have an idea who's reliable and who isn't.
I agree. I know who I listen to, who's posts I take with a pinch of salt and who's posts I often don't waste time reading.
If you are a new member and believe the first answer you get you might be lucky.....
but then again you might not.
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The best advice I can give, is that Parliament will be hung, and if it isn't - then it damn well should be.
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