After the first failure why didn't you do something to make sure it didn't subsequently happen on the other side?
I didn't know that was the problem the first time. It was when the service manager invited me into the workshop that I realised what had caused it.
It is all very well being wise after the event. In any case, you would have to dismantle the interior of the tailgate to get at the loom. Do you go to those lengths when you buy a new car?
Edited by Robbie on 09/02/2010 at 18:56
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L'escargot, out of curiosity, what was th elast car you bought that you could see exposed wires that could chafe? As far as I can remember , my cars have always had trunking of some sort taking them into doors and boots?
Are you suggesting when you get a new car you remove these to check the wiring?
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Write to Honda and ask them to reimburse you. They'll probably refuse. Issue a Money Claim www.moneyclaim.gov.uk against them on the basis that they supplied a car with an intrinsic fault.
Let us know how you get on.
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the car is well out of its warranty period
Next time buy a car with longer warranty :-)
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You have my sympathy, we just 'got rid of' an FK3 Civic (the latest shape, an 07 and still in warrantee) because we had no confidence in its longevity or Honda dealers' ability to fix the thing.
I read so much about how good Honda reliability is supposed to be and can only hope they've 'dropped the ball' over the past few years, anyhow - we didn't replace it with a Honda and probably never will. Overall a huge disappointment.
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Colleague in work just picked up his brand new Civic (company car) and after only 2000 miles he is already complaining that the car is rattley and he is not impressed as he has the car for another 4 years.
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Robbie, sorry to hear your tale and apologies for the bad attitude you have felt on hear. Not sure why you have had such a hostile response!
As for checking for lose wires - !!
Edited by Webmaster on 10/02/2010 at 00:53
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Robbie sorry to hear your tale and apologies for the bad attitude you have felt on hear. Not sure why you have had such a hostile response! >>
To the contrary I think Robbie was uncharacteristically harsh on freddy1 who was clearly only trying to help.
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Thanks for posting that, Robbie.
I think that there are two issues here. One is Honda's customer care policy, and their failure to made a goodwill gesture. I suspect that few manufacturers would have done so. Perhaps Toyota might have, and Lexus probably would (and covered the cost with their labour rates!) - but if this had happened with a Ford, Vauxhall, Peugeot, VW, no one would have expected anything from the manufacturer. Honda's high standards of customer care raised expectations, which, alas, were not met.
The other issue is design and engineering. The design fault strikes me as more shocking than the customer care attitude. We all thought that there was great attention to detail at Honda and Toyota, and this sort of mistake was the sort of thing we expected of European and American cars. I suspect that Honda and Toyota are still better than the rest, but it seems that the difference isn't as great as it was a few years ago.
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....We all thought that there was great attention to detail at Honda and Toyota...
In the same way we all thought the emperor had a nice new set of clothes. :)
I have never thought the like of Toyota, Honda, or VW/Audi for that matter, are any better than Ford or Vauxhall.
I might not be right about 'never', but there's certainly not been much between the various makes in recent years.
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My own suspicion is that there has been a change in the past 10 years. There are two main reasons that I suspect this.
One is the fairly well publicised problems of the new shape Honda Civic which show up on survey after survey.
The other is the ADAC breakdown statistics in Germany. When one is looking at cars first registered in 2000, 2001, 2002 - Honda and Toyota (eg the Jazz, Civic, Yaris and Corolla) do very well indeed.
If one looks at the most recent ADAC statistics, for 2007 and 2008 cars, in the small family car class, the Toyota Auris /Corolla is below average, and the Honda Civic is at the bottom of the pile.
In the supermini class, the Jazz and the Yaris are about average. The Punto beats both of them.
I don't know what to make of this, since my parents have just bought a new Honda Jazz, largely on my recommendation . . .
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Car manufacturers don't make a profit by paying for out of warranty repairs, if they make a contribution you've done well.
You want cars piled high with technology that's unproven over the cars lifetime, then you pay when the warranty is over, simples.
Back to basics, simple transport needed for the masses IMO
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...Back to basics, simple transport needed for the masses IMO...
The consumer is king and we get what we want.
The reason there are no truly basic cars is hardly anyone would buy them.
People on here still look back and shudder at the likes of Fiesta and Escort Populars with their plastic seats, rubber mats and, er, not much else.
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The consumer is king and we get what we want.
Well my reply is shut up and pay up when they break then;o)
The reason there are no truly basic cars is hardly anyone would buy them. People on here still look back and shudder at the likes of Fiesta and Escort Populars with their plastic seats rubber mats and er not much else.
Interiors rarely go wrong, the world is your oyster, pop to ghia.
Too many gadgets, too much wiring, cars built to a price to make a profit, cut the excesses to make reliable transport for the future.
I predict in 10 years time there will be 50% less cars on the road as people just can't afford them and the whole thing goes full circle to cars for the rich and privileged.
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I predict in 10 years time there will be 50% less cars on the road as people just can't afford them and the whole thing goes full circle to cars for the rich and privileged.
I'll bet £20 that you're completely wrong. You can by a small, normally aspirated ,petrol engined car with a 7 year warranty for not too much money nowadays. We're a nation of borrowers (money wise) and even with this recent recession that's not going to change. People may drive smaller cars, but they will still drive.
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the lights stop working on one Honda Accord and we are all doomed!
my reading of this one, is this particular car had a wiring loom that wasn't correctly installed, it went wrong, and Honda didn't do the decent thing and sort it out gratis.
It all depends on the relationship with this particular dealer and owner/car in this situation.
clearly this dealer would rather trousers a couple of quid than build a relationship with Robbie.
will Robbie go there for the next service/purchase? Time will tell.
Can we infer from this sorry little tale that there will be 50% less cars on the road, are we to conclude that we need to follow Rattle et al in white 8 valve Pandas? I think not.
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Open your eyes, 320,000 cars gone to scrappage, the people that were in the market for a similar car now have to pay more, if they buy a bad one how do they recover to buy the next?
Let them eat cake it seems?
Sit back smuggly and say it wont affect me, do you think people who are being priced off the road with all the BS in modern cars will admire your shiney new motor or smash it up?
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Open your eyes 320 000 cars gone to scrappage the people that were in the market for a similar car now have to pay more if they buy a bad one how do they recover to buy the next?
320,000 cars gone to scrappage and 320,000 shiny new ones on the road, so no net change in car ownership. Yes, those looking for an 8 year old Ford KA are out of luck, but I can't see any evidence of a 50% shrinkage of motorists. Can you?
Let them eat cake it seems? Sit back smuggly and say it wont affect me do you think people who are being priced off the road with all the BS in modern cars will admire your shiney new motor or smash it up?
Neither?
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It all depends on the relationship with this particular dealer and owner/car in this situation. clearly this dealer would rather trousers a couple of quid than build a relationship with Robbie. will Robbie go there for the next service/purchase? Time will tell.
I have been buying cars from this group for nearly thirty-two years. This is my first Honda - the others were Vauxhalls - and I can't complain about this particular dealer. They gave me some discount, and I paid a total of £531 for a service, MOT and fixing the light problem. I could hardly expect them to do the job for nothing. The real problem lies with Honda. Indeed, I wonder if they missed off fitting a covering along the length of the lip in the tailgate that would have prevented this happening. Apart from these two wiring problems the car has been trouble free, and drives like a new motor car.
I'm changing my car either this year or early next year, and it looks as if I'll go for a Lexus.
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I'm changing my car either this year or early next year and it looks as if I'll go for a Lexus.
Well, pass on the delear's offer of free floor mats, check the brakes, careful of the accelerator and make sure the steering's OK! :-)
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L'escargot out of curiosity what was the last car you bought that you could see exposed wires that could chafe?
Under the bonnet is a good place to look for electrical wires, hoses and Bowden cables etc which have one end that moves relative to the other. For example, most modern cars will have wires going from the fan motor to the engine. Most modern cars will have hoses going from the coolant header tank to the engine, hoses going from the radiator to the engine, and hoses going from the heater to the engine.
There are 7 places under the bonnet of my 2003 Focus where I have wrapped PVC tape around items which move relative to stationary items when the engine is running. I call it preventative maintenance. I learned my lesson in about 1970 when I had a heater hose chafe nearly until it leaked.
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Edited by Pugugly on 10/02/2010 at 20:57
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... I`ll try not to see that as supercilious `put- down` comment to my wife choice and Rattle`s potential choice, Nick...
...oilrag` as a forum nick was always intended as a metaphor about humility and knowing one`s place. Come on, lighten up ;-)....
oilrag,
To use your own words, lighten up. :)
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"are we to conclude that we need to follow Rattle et al in white 8 valve Pandas? I think not.">>
I've only heard good things about Pandas, Oily - but meanwhile, while we're talking about "miffed with Honda", - my mate has written to Honda twice about a cracked manifold that needed replacing on his Accord at a cost of (I think it was) £800+. So far, he hasn't received a reply.
My 1985 (and still going strong) HR194 lawnmower has been an excellent Honda product - but I don't think I'll be buying anything else off them! They're a bit too arrogant for my liking.
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I don't like the sound of this. I included a 2003-08 Accord in my potential cars to buy list, but sounds like they're suffering from a few faults. Although most of the problems seem to affect the diesel. Our previous Accord (1998-2003) was bland, but superbly reliable. (1.8 Vtec)
Nothing wrong with Pandas, each to their own.
Edited by corax on 10/02/2010 at 21:03
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Yes, sorry about the above post of mine. I asked for it to be deleted.
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in case of doubt, i like Fiat Pandas.
Cracking little cars, I was very close to buying one a few years ago and may well be tempted by a 100HP some time soon.
My point was really to address the doom and gloom of Dox.
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Yes sorry about the above post of mine. I asked for it to be deleted.
I won't be able to sleep tonight for pondering over what it said, and to whose post it was in reply.
;-)
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>>I won't be able to sleep tonight for pondering over what it said, and to whose post it was in reply.
;-)
Almost certainly yours, L'escargot. You had it coming!
Clk Sec :-)
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...I won't be able to sleep tonight for pondering over what it said...
Les,
There's a clue in my post - above - timed at 20.34.
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Apart from this wiring problem my Honda Accord has been an excellent car, and I can't criticise other aspects of its build and quality. I have had good service from my dealer, albeit a tad expensive. My gripe is with the attitude of Honda towards this particular problem, that is clearly of their manufacturing deficiency.
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Just a thought - is this "problem" there on all Accords of the same age (and if so, how many others have suffered the same problem), or was something missed on your particular car when it was assembled?
It seems to me that either Honda made a serious error in the design (i.e. in not protecting the wiring) or that someone forgot to put clamps/covers in place when it was built.
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I had a call from the dealer's Honda Customer Care dept. in Nottingham this afternoon. He was checking to see if I was satisfied with the service etc. and was I treated courteously etc.
The dealer does take its service to customers quite seriously. I relayed to him my gripe with Honda, and he assured me that he will take it up with them.
I'll keep you informed.
Andy P, I Don't know if this is a common problem, or something was missed off mine when it was built. I may find out if Honda Care get back to me.
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i think this will be sorted to your satisfaction
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I gave negative feedback to a manufacturer customer service call some years ago. I've never been asked since!
The Mercedes one makes me laugh - how on earth can univerally criticised MB dealerships have satisfaction ratings that are oftem mid-90's of percent?
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The honda was probably assembled in the UK, which could explain the "missing" grommet, i must say i agree with l'escargot comments, i always check out a new car for any possible problems, prevent rather than cure, unfortunately wiring out of sight can not realistically be inspected.
Most of the cars i have had used a rubber shroud to pass the cable loom through, both ends would have a built in grommet, was the problem one of these that was adrift of the hole it should have been fitted into?
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The Accord is built in Japan. The wiring that was cut does not go through any hole where it was damaged. Think of an inverted L, the wiring goes along the top of the tailgate and then down at a ninety degree angle. It is loosely secured, and the edge of the channel had cut through the loom.
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