You beat me to it OB - different words, same outcome though!
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Exactly, I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking this! :)
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The very reason why I never changed the Outback until I really needed a bigger car.
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The trip computer shows 14.2 litres per 100 miles, whatever that is. But it sounds bad. I just know that I rest the odometer every time I fill up and it's only ever done 275 miles max when it's just about to run out (0 miles remaining on trip computer and the light's been on for ages).
It's far worse than I was expecting when I bought it.
The older/higher mileage thing is the risk in the equation. I suppose it'll come down to my appetite for risk in the end.
I was hoping for some reliability comments on diesel Golfs and Octavias of around 7/8 years of age, so thanks to bazza for his implied recommendation for the Octavia. Is a 2003, 60k diesel Octavia or a 2002, 60k Golf likely to cost me more in repairs over the next 3 years than the Mazda? 3 years from now is when I am budgeting to be buying a brand new car, so that's how long it's got to last. Over those three years I stand to save about £1500 on fuel, but at greater risk of repair costs. I can't imagine either older car will present me with repair bills of over £1500 in three years, so maybe it's worth the risk?
Hmm.
Then there are TD Mondeos around in my budget too.....just seen a 53 reg 2.0 TD auto with 55k on the clock for a shade over 4k, at a main dealer (albeit not a Ford one). Interesting.
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So, depreciation then.
What will my Mazda be worth in 3 years, at a mileage of about 55k?
And how about the Golf or Octavia with a mileage of around 80k? How do I work that one out?
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You're getting about 20mpg for 14l/100km. However, if it's 14L per 100 *miles* then it's 32mpg.
I can't be sure what the Mazda will be worth in 3 years, or what a Golf might be worth, however I can tell you that whatever you walk out of a dealers with, you'll be at least £1k worse off instantly.
For a laugh, after I buy my next car, I'm tempted to go literally straight back the same day and try and get a valuation from another salesmen at the same dealers. The results would be funny, in a perverse sense... :D
Edited by TheOilBurner on 08/02/2010 at 15:42
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Because I'm bored, here's the numbers you want:
Your Mazda 6 will be worth around £3k trade-in in 3 years time with 55k.
An '02 Golf with 80k miles may be worth about £2k in 3 years. But bear in mind that it'll be 11 years old by then and prices are less predictable at that age. A private sale would make more sense probably.
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Thanks, OB. All in then, fuel and depreciation, I MIGHT be about 500 pounds better off over 3 years with the Golf/Octavia, if nothing goes wrong with it. Which ain't that much.
You're right, the economincs of it are shaky, although monthly cash flow in those years will seem much better.
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Good point, I was always told that cash flow is king. No idea if that is true or not!
I guess that makes sense, a bird in the hand and all that... :)
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Yours is doing about 33mpg (14.2 per 100miles). I'm currently in a new Mondeo 2.0 auto and it is doing about 25mpg round town - that's less than my 2.2 X type.
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The display show litres per 100 miles, not kms.
Looking at my petrol receipts quickly, I usually seem to buy 57 litres, and this lasts about 260 miles (as I fill up before it gets mega critical).
Wassat in MPG then? Not good, I reckon.
Edited by Alanovich on 08/02/2010 at 15:46
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260 / 57 = 4.5614 (miles per litre) * 4.546 (convert to British gallons) = 20.7mpg.
Your trip display is in l/100km, not miles, no matter what it says.
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Good grief. I remember my Dad getting 15-20 MPG out of a 3.0 V6 Ford Zodiac in the 70s.
We haven't come very far, have we?
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We haven't come very far have we?
You'll cry when you hear that I'm actually getting better MPG than you with my C5 3.0 V6 (TC auto). Currently it's nearly at 22mpg on brim to brim checks.
Mostly town driving too. I've seen it swing nearer to 28mpg if I do lots of longer runs on single tankfuls.
Perhaps there's something wrong with the Mazda?
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Perhaps there's something wrong with the Mazda?
I suppose there could be. It's got a full main delaer service history though. And they've never suspected anything. Perhaps I should give the dealer a ring.
My use of the car, though, is seriously urban stuff. I suppose it was the wrong car for the job in the first place.
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If your Dad was only doing 20 miles per day average then no cars have not come very far.
I'd stick with what you've got as you've already paid someones profit you may as well get the use out of the car.
Put the £1000+ you'll be paying someone again towards six monthly oil & filter changes and keep the Mazda for the three years. Maybe do these yourself to keep costs down.
As mentioned above you are getting around 20MPG from the figures you have quoted but in the cold weather with heated everything switched on the car is not really getting warmed up before you are switching off.
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As OB says, you're getting around 20mpg urban - about right for an auto 2l Mazda 6 - I checked.
An auto 1.9 Golf will get (according to published data) around 31mpg urban, so 50% improvement. In fact most VAG type autos will get around 40-42 combined, thus 30-31 urban.
So, you'll save about £10-13 per week, £500-600 a year in fuel , plus(?) a bit of road tax.
Or £1500-1800 over 3 years - against that you'll lose about £1000 trade-in come sale time (thanks OB). Nett (notional) saving between £500-800 over 3 years.
I'm not sure what the cost-risks are for an ageing diesel auto, but you've got the notional
£170-270 per year in contingency to cover it.
Question is - do ya feel lucky?
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Cheers, woodbines. A 50% improvement in consumption sounds spectacular, but saving £500 over 3 years is somewhat less impressive, although still, 500 notes is 500 notes.
Do I feel lucky? Not usually. Although I have been very lucky with all the used cars I've bought in the last 10 years or so.
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It's entirely accurate to point out the buy/sell losses. To minimise this I try to sell privately and buy from a car supermarket such as Motorpoint where dealer margins are lower, typically £500 on the cars I've bought in recent years. It is of course always better financially to avoid buying and selling through dealers at all. Easier said than done.
I still think it may be possible to save some money in the long run by buying shrewdly, eg a year or so old Nissan Note and hang onto it for say 5 years. That's what I would do. Although I'm a huge fan of the Octavia/VW tdi, an 8 year old one may be running into expenses such a discs, exhausts, belts etc. I've just paid for new discs on the front at 70K. And at around 90K, I'm looking at a belt change -not cheap. The other issue is they do tend to mark these cars up at the dealers as they're popular.
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I was hoping for some reliability comments on diesel Golfs
I've just read the CBCB on the mk IV Golf, and I would have to agree with HJ. I know of two people who owned the above and sold them after a few months due to the unreliability.
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bazza mentioned Grande Puntos. Just about big enough for my tastes.
37.7 MPG on the urban cycle from a 1.4 petrol auto. Now that's not bad. And there seem to be some at about £5K, 2006 models.
I might be on to something here. Perhaps I was wrong to think diesel was the answer.
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I've just read the CBCB on the mk IV Golf and I would have to agree with HJ. I know of two people who owned the above and sold them after a few months due to the unreliability.
I would never doubt HJ's knowledge, but this is in total contrast to my experience. We have a 2002 TDI PD130 which we've owned for a year and is now on 97k. Its fault tally amounts to a split CV gaiter. In fact, it's been so good, I've just bought another one (1.8T GTI) to go with it. And for all the PD's refinement shortcomings, I still think you will struggle to find another car at anything like the price which has such an impressive balance of performance and economy.
There are four other PD TDI engined Golf mkIV's in SWMBO's family, and all have been good cars, with only the odd minor fault to report during ownership periods ranging from 4-7 years. One of them sprung a few bills in quick succession at around the 120k mark (aux belt tensioner, rear wash/wipe mechanism, heated seat failure, front brake caliper), but then settled down and has done another 10,000 incident free miles.
Don't get me wrong, I don't buy the VW 'guaranteed ironclad reliability' thing either, but based on what I see, the Golf IV is a solid, well built long lasting car, albeit one with a few common faults, but which seem to be relatively cheap to fix. There's no way I'd have spent my own money on two of the things if I didn't truly believe that.
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... Perhaps I was wrong to think diesel was the answer....
It's certainly not the silver bullet solution.
All cars, petrol or diesel, slurp fuel in town.
Using hindsight, the time to have bought a diesel was when you bought the petrol Mazda.
Might be best now to sit back, enjoy the smoothness and quietness of the Mazda, and try not to think too much about the fuel bills.
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One thing to factor into the cost of making a change is the "feel good factor" of a comfortable car with an excellent urban fuel consumption.
I went around much the same loop when replacing my much loved (petrol) pre-GM SAAB and quickly decided that a) the VAG PD unit was the engine I wanted and b) the Golf especially and other VW badged offerings attract a price premium. Admittedly my old car was worn out but a change had to be made.
I have a need for a heavy car (towing) and my searches led to the Skoda Superb with the AWX (130 PS) diesel engine. For the purchase price, there's very little to match its economy/performance quotient. Fuel is not getting cheaper.
The car has shortcomings, but comfort, performance, economy and towing ability are not amongst them. The "feel good factor" associated with its economy is significant - it gets rather more use than it otherwise might. It was cheap to buy and has been reliable.
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Is there any way you could re-look at the usage of the Touran ? I know these things are never simple but if you could find ways of using the benefit of that more and proportionately reducing your usage of the Mazda.........
As for your actual question..... ;-)............
I think, if it were me, I'd keep the Mazda for now, warts 'n all.
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I admit to not reading all of the above. But for this sort of driving a diesel may not provide as good mpg as one might expect. It takes time for a diesel to warm up (and Euro IV diesels can be worse than Euro III). I know my Mazda6 diesel and the Mondeo TDCi before it hasn't returned the mpg I'd have expected.
Indeed last week I drove to Scotland and back and got about 42mpg! Some on cruise control. Not so good for close to 500 miles.
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And having a Mazda6 Sport (albeit diesel)... I find it so comfortable and a good cruiser. I'd want the petrol replacement to also be such a good car! :-)
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A big petrol saloon is not the car for short trips in town. A diesel might not be much better.
A smaller lighter car with a good petrol engine is a better bet. 1.2 1.4 litre car- go for a scrappage deal for a 1.2 I10?
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Sandy, thanks but I simply refuse to put my children in anything smaller than a Golf on a regular basis. Having lived with the consequences of losing a family member in a road accident, I simply won't compromise on that. I couldn't live with myself if something happened and I blamed myself for skimping on the car for financial reasons. I know it can still happen in bigger cars, but if I mitigate the risk to my own mind's satisfaction then I can live with that.
So, after a night sleeping on it and a chat with my missus, it seems we should be able to use her company fuel card to fill my car so long as it's diesel, as the card is marked "diesel".
Which puts a whole different complexion on things.
My short list is now a diesel Golf, Octavia, Passat, Superb, Toledo, Leon or Altea. The newest one I can find with the lowest mileage within my budget, not too far from home, from a reputable (preferably franchised) dealer. The search is on.
Edited by Alanovich on 09/02/2010 at 09:28
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So, after a night sleeping on it and a chat with my missus, it seems we should be able to use her company fuel card to fill my car so long as it's diesel, as the card is marked "diesel".
Are you sure! That sounds wrong to me. When a fuel card is used the mileage and registration details are entered on the system at the garage. At some point this would be flagged at the fuel card provider.
My employer also monitors mileage even for fully expenses cars with a fuel card.
I could be wrong but what you propose seems wrong to me.
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Fair point. I'll get her to check with work today, but from what she says they never ask for reg and mileage when she fills up.
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None of my business of course but I once sacked a guy because we caught him filling up his wife's car with a company fuel card intended for use with his company car.
I'd be very careful to check that your wife's employers were happy to fund your fuel too before I went down that track.
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You're right HB, will check it out thoroughly.
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Fuel cards often have the car registration on the card itself. From my experience the registration is entered on the system when fuel is purchased.
My fuel card (not fully expensed) does not have the reg on it because I can use it for relief/hire cars. But the mileage is checked etc.
I would be very surprised if your wife's employer is happy for her to use the card to fill up any car. If they are maybe you could sell any unwanted fuel cheap ;-)
Edited by rtj70 on 09/02/2010 at 10:51
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I understand where you're coming from Alanovich, in which case I wouldn't bother with anything like the Golf or Leon etc.
I'd be looking for at *least* 12-15" clear room from the rear passenger headrest to the back window. So Superb, Passat, Octavia etc all look good there.
Your call.
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I've got a mkIV Golf, albeit the 1.6 petrol. It's been fairly unreliable over the year I've had it, needing a new MAF sensor, new crank sensor, new ABS sensor, and a few other items in addition to the normal service, and items I'd expect to replace due to wear and tear. Obviously, one car does't make them all bad, but i'd not buy a VW based on any notion of reliability again.
The cabin of the Golf isn't huge. I see you want isofix fittings, so I'm taking a wild stab in the dark and guessing you're fitting child seats. I'm only 6ft tall, but with a child seat behind me, our 2.5 year old doesn't have enough room for her legs. Also, the top rear corner on the Golf rear doors is a sharp point, which i've got nasty bruises from when trying to help a toddler in.
I'd stick with the Mazda, both on a cost basis, a reliability basis, and a size basis.
Edited by dieselicious on 09/02/2010 at 11:05
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Thanks, dieselicious. I am a few inches short of 6 feet and have shortish legs. So I don't sit that far back when driving.
Thanks for the comments, I'll take a car seat with me to try out if I go to look at one.
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The problem you have is your wish for a largish car and its urban role coupled with your economy expectations plus your budget restriction to save money! My suggestions for small petrol economy don't quite fulfill your safety considerations and of course once you move up in size, petrol won't deliver any economy benefit. Although I think something pretty solid and modern like a Note or Grande Punto surely are strong/safe enough?
Just thinking it through for a minute, what you need is big, relatively safe, economical and cheap. Badge/image not important? Wondering whether it's worth looking at Kia Carens/Magentis or Hyundai equivalents? Big, cheap diesels, peanuts to buy and much newer ones available for a lot less than VAG group or Japanese? Sell the 6 privately and pick something up for £4K ish, pocket the difference?
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Hi bazza, yes you're right, badge isn't really that important to me. I've considered the Magentis and Sonata, nice motors all right, but I can't find a diesel auto anywhere near 4-5k. Don't really want a Carens as we already have an MPV type vehicle, and I don't really like the older Mk 2s, which is what I'd be looking at in my budget. They're a bit plasticky in the flesh, I have test driven one in the past. If only the Cerato had been available as a diesel auto, but it wasn't.
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Alanovich - sorry if this is a daft question, but have you searched on Autotrader for <£5k diesel automatics? There appear to be 99 within 20 miles of my Reading postcode, or 37 if you set a minimum of £4k. Obviously you then have to know or find out which have ISOFIX and 4 star NCAP.
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Yes, Focus, thanks. Been playing around a little bit. A lot of them are unsuitable due to mileage and body type (eg lots of imported Japanese people carriers and 4x4s). Once I start to thin the field down by mileage and body type it doesn't leave much.
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Its a shame your only doing short urban runs. When I had my Mazda 6 2.0 petrol TS2 I regularly acheived 38-39mpg and could occasionally get 42mpg on V-power per tankfull. My new Mazda 5 sport is averaging 35 with fairly spirited driving. On long runs I have been getting 38mpg.
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