The OP doesn't mention what size 4x4 he's after.
Does he want a larger vehicle like the disco or a smaller freelander size or just a car that is 4 wheel drive?
I suspect he may be looking at a freelander size. I would have probably settled for this type of vehicle if I didn't need the towing capacity of a disco.
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It has been discussed over & over again that one does not need 4x4 to drive in snow - rather he needs winter tyres .
A 2WD car with winter tyre outperforms 4WD with normal tyres.
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A 2WD car with winter tyre outperforms 4WD with normal tyres. <<
Link some comparative evidence please.
No X5s or X6s though ;-)
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What about a 4x4 with proper winter tyres? Legacy Outback Diesel on winter tyres. How will that perform on snow. Quoted figures for 2009 model are about 49 mpg fairly good on emmisions too about 155 thingies of co2
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Legacy Outback Diesel on winter tyres. How will that perform on snow.
The OP needs an automatic, the Legacy diesel is only available as a manual unfortunately.
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>>It has been discussed over & over again that one does not need 4x4 to drive in snow - rather he needs winter tyres .
Let me know your "needs" and I'll tell you what you should have. I'm sure you'll be grateful.
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Good man, Fred......dedication to your position.....Respect !!
I have an old banger of a Suzi Vitara TD Auto. It's a 5 door so I don't know if it's the right size for you but how about a Jimny ? I don't know if they do it in auto but the car itself seems to get good reviews. You can also have a good time in it when you're off work
Ted
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The Apparatchicks are a bit slow tonight, they should have been here demanding FF submit to a public hearing (lynching) at the Peoples Court to establish his worthiness of such an anti social vehicle.
Maybe they're at a rehabilitation centre (gulag) re-educating some of the less equal proletariat.
I hope you buy the 4x4 you want Fiercefred, the bigger the better..;)
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Jimny does indeed come as an automatic.
It is probably one of the most capable four wheel vehicles around. The guy who runs one of the best Jimny sites is a newspaper delivery guy in Sweden (delivering to shops rather than houses!) who has an automatic.
Downsides: not a motorway cruiser, and rather small inside. Probably best used as a 2 seater with the rear seats removed!
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The OP says "after my recent icy weather experience I am considering buying a 4x4", and as he's coming from a Megane it is safe to assume that he doesn't live on a farm/up a mountain/tow heavy trailers etc. that would ordinarily necessitate a 4x4.
It sounds to me that it is purely icy weather road traction he is concerned about. In which case he doesn't need a 4x4 per se, just any car that will give him traction in snowy weather (which of course might not repeat for a couple of years anyway). In those circumstances I would recommend a conventional car with winter tyres, for the benefits of reduced running costs, improved handling, etc. We drive to the alps every year and manage just perfectly with winter tyres on a 4x2.
Of course it may well be that when the OP has a look at a few cars and 4x4s he might quite like the raised driving position a 4x4 offers, or maybe he does low miles such that the increased running costs of a 4x4 are not so significant.
But my answer to his question would be: "Conventional car with a set of winter tyres at the ready".
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>>But my answer to his question would be: "Conventional car with a set of winter tyres at the ready".<<
Seconded.
A friend has a pair of winter tyres on a set of cheap steel wheels. Depending on when the winter looks like it's going to kick in, she switches her driven wheels to the winter set and back again when the icy stuff has passed by. She lives up a steep hill that is susceptible to being iced over for longer than most roads and has never had a problem.
I drive a 4x4 (Legacy) but don't think of it as being especially snow proof but it does help me up snowy inclines that defeat other cars.
Certainly 4 wheel drive on ice is no better than 2 wheel drive.
So in summary I'd suggest the OP considers the winter tyre option or a car with 4 wheel drive. An off-roader is only really useful when you're, er, off-roading.
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A friend has a pair of winter tyres on a set of cheap steel wheels <<
Tyre makers recommend 4 winter tyres to prevent one end being greatly inferior in poor conditions.
But then they would say that, wouldn't they ;-)
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I pretty confident that the advice for a front wheel drive car would be to put the winter tyres on the rear.
Get a 4x4 - why settle for an inferior arrangement if you don't have to?
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>>Get a 4x4 - why settle for an inferior arrangement if you don't have to?<<
If you mean 4x4 in the sense of an off-roader then you'd be buying a car that is inappropriate to the driver's needs and which will cost more - that sounds like an inferior choice to me.
Why would you put winter tyres on the non-driven wheels by the way?
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>>Why would you put winter tyres on the non-driven wheels by the way?
The reasoning is that you should always have the best tyres on the back, whether they are the driven wheels or not.
Clearly the best solution is to have a set of four.
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Come on guys, what is it with all this hostility towards new members of late?
Some of you are either coming across as patronising, belittling, or just being darn right rude.
In short try and make new members (and existing ones for that matter) more welcome.
Fiercefred, I would like to apologise on behalf of the Backroom for some of the comments made in reply to your question. Please ignore them and concentrate on some of the more positive suggestions made.
DD. BR Modeerator.
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As another mod, I too think you've been badly treated with your first thread!
I did wonder if a good set of winter tyres on your existing car would have been better than a 4x4 though. In the recent weather, with icy roads etc, even a 4x4 could struggle especially when on normal tyres. A good set of M+S tyres may be all you and a lot of other drivers ever needed.
A lot of proper 4x4 did better due to tyres. But a Porsche Cayenne on it's tyres would have struggled because the tyres are usually for performance and not winter/off-road use.
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As one of those who said that Fred had been badly treated, I'd just add that there's nothing wrong with questioning (in a positive way) the OP's needs, i.e. if the OP asks should I go for A, B, or C, there is no harm in saying "have you thought of D" while still trying to answer the question. I think many of us learn from that experience (myself included) and adds to the richness of BR debate.
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Well done for making Fred feel welcome in the backroom.
He made the OP and just one other post at the start of the thread.
I can imagine him sitting reading this with regret and horror.
He asked a direct question, and got in reply, in some cases, his whole work and lifestyle questioned.
Naughty step required?
Pat
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...and will the frankly offensive replies be removed?
The "I'm only telling him what's good for him" replies are patronising at best.
Offensiveness aside, as usual when the subject of 4x4 comes up, I suspect there is also a lot of "you don't want to do that" advice from people with no relevant experience of their own repeating the usual catchphrases.
Every such thread is full of dross from people who don't actually know what they are talking about. Opinions are fine unless presented as fact to people asking for advice.
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Coming back tio the original question . . .
The choice would depend on where you live and how much snow you expect. Pennines or Pentland hills a Land Rover or similar vehicle with a lot of ground clearance - and even they can't cope with a foot of snow. They come with the associated problem of getting in and out as they are MUCH HIGHER for access.
In the normal UK town which can expect an inch at most would suggest a FWD car with winter tyres or if you really need 4x4 just tho sit behind the guy in the BMW who is stuck get a saloon basd 4x4 such as the panda, Octavia or one of the Subarus which being car based are not high off the ground and will still allow you reasonably easy access (wheelchair??)
Bear in mind that you have to get to the car in the snow!
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I don't understand why so many people are against 4X4's ! its a free country still & a free choice of vehicle & the guy wants to feel confident in getting to work! I take my hat off to him.
I drive Freelander 2 Auto. I have a totally collapsed vertebrae & find the driving position perfect & the cars very comfortable & doesn't roll around like some 4x4's.
It has excellent performance & averages about 28mpg overall on short trips 9 miles of country lanes each way. On a run it will average 33mpg & on a motorway run with cruise set at 65 will return between 42-44mpg & frequently achieve this when visiting family which involves a 350 mile round trip so I feel this is quite acceptable.
Lots of people appear concerned about emissions from 4x4's but they seem to forget about all the empty trains & buses running around often empty & 44 ton trucks when it could be on the rails & people flying here there & everywhere on planes.
I have a relative who flies to all her meetings all over the country & the emissions from here 6ltrs flat 6 engine plane that burns 55ltrs of Av gas an hour produces more emissions in one long trip than I do in a year so I wish people would stop bashing freedom of choice!
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Blimey! After reading all the replies I'd say Boxterboy seems to have hit the nail on the head!
Fred, I too have a motability car and yes you are right, the downpayments on 4x4s are huge... but what has been suggested about tyres might be the way round the question. You need your car all year round and Motability should try to help you to do that.
As BB and a few others have said, for the weather we've had decent Winter tyres on a FWD will probably be sufficient, if you look on the older threads about the weather there were plenty of posts from people who had winter tyres and could "get through" ok. By doing that you would also be able to choose cars with lower advance payments!
The one issue would be the tyres... now I doubt "Ask Mo" would be any use in this case (Motabilities online Q&A) so I'd suggets that you phone Motability up, explain your position... that you need proper winter tyres during winter and ordinary ones the rest of the year and would it be possible to either have a spare set which can be switched over at the beginning of winter and back in the spring, or replaced at those times.
I suspect that you haven't yet approached Motability, so try them first and see what they can suggest... BTW if you do ask the question re winter tyres let us know what they say!
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Most of the disability cars here in Northern Ireland are driven by the chronically unemployable.
More than 75% of them are a scam ( personal opinion, but based on local observation)
This guy is at least working (well he's in employment anyway)
But regardless of all of the preceeding he does NOT NEED A 4WD
He may WANT one
Plus as someone else commented
iffen he goes out in the snow & gets stuck he WILL require rescue
jat
M
signed FWD snowdriver.
Edited by dieseldogg on 03/02/2010 at 09:40
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Fiat Sedici diesel 4x4 would be ideal or it's Suzuki sister. Wouls imagine both these dealers happy to deal with Motibilty.
Slightly raised driving position, easy to get in and out of, fairly compact for that cramped hospital car park, low servicing costs.
Buy that and stop all these guys moaning.
PLEASE!!
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One thing Ive noticed about this forum is that there are a lot of people with ideological axes to grind - dont like DVLA, dont like NHS/NHS managers, dont like disabled etc etc. Le4aves a baad taste in the mouth sometimes.
Working days I have to use a 4x4 (Ford Ranger) and its a pain really. I dont recommend large 4x4s because of their generally inferior handling and unsuitability for normal everyday motoring. Unless you are seriously going off road or doing some heavy duty towing (as I have to ) then they are more trouble/expense than they are worth.
I second the suggestions on winter tyres. I have been 32 years in the trade and never used winter tyres till this december and decided to try them. I am amazed to be honest and we are already talking to our wholesales about availability for October 2010 and maybe promoting them to our customers along with steel wheels. I think there is a big untapped market their, even though we are only small-scale tyre outlet by most trade standards, and our local tyre depots dont seem interested.
For belt and braces motoring I would suggest a smaller car-like 4x4 (Subaru, Suzuki SX4, Sedici, Skoda Yeti) and then fit it with winter tyres.
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My wife must be one of the 25% then, DD...
I think the %ge you refer to is for Incapacity Benefit, which the press have publicised several times, DLA and Motability (you can't get the second unless you get the higher level of the first) are a different kettle of fish and though there is some scamming, I don't think its anywhere near the level you suggest...
A good shake up is required, though...
But in this thread the comment is totally irrelevent!
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Most of the disability cars here in Northern Ireland are driven by the chronically unemployable.
This thread has hit a new low...shocking.. I can only guess you have your tongue in cheek DieselDogg?
One thing Ive noticed about this forum is that there are a lot of people with ideological axes to grind - dont like DVLA, dont like NHS/NHS managers, dont like disabled etc etc. Le4aves a baad taste in the mouth sometimes.
Hear hear WT, I'm with you on that.
If the guy wants a 4x4, fine, recommend one or two for him. Sure some of us might feel that he'd be better off with a regular car and winter tyres, and it's fine to suggest that, but do we need all this anti-4x4 (and the rest) brow-beating to go with it?
There may be other reasons for wanting a 4x4 too, like better practicality than the Megane, or easier access in and out of the car.
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