I presume the HJ emails come from private car owners, rather than company car drivers.
I also assume (not sure where to find figures) that people dipping into their own pockets are more likely to go for a Japanese/Asian brands, and are more likely to keep for many years.
Conversely company car drivers will more likely have a mainstream Euro car that is no more than 3-4 yrs old.
Certainly won't be HJ prejudice (we'll leave that to fools like Rutherford, the Gary Bushell of motor journos), but maybe more a picture of HJ readers ?
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Buy a Volvo S60. Better than all of them.
Mine's coming up 9 years old. 153,000 miles. Original battery, original exhaust, no knocks, no rattles, no smoke, needs half a litre of oil between services and starts on the key. Routine (12k) Volvo services only. All that's not original on it apart from routine replacement/consumable items is the alternator (broken by the dealer during a service), top engine mount, indicator stalk, front suspension arms, and the clutch. Everything except for one heated door mirror works as intended. One tiny bubble of rust under the rear number plate that hasn't yet broken the paint. Otherwise untouched by tin worm (and I have been under it while it's been up on the ramps).
I knew its former owner who bought it at 3 yrs old and 70-something k. Between then and now, it's broken down once. That was when the alternator failed and the cause transpired to be the dealer fitting the wrong auxiliary belt at service time and taking out the bearings. They paid the full cost of replacement.
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A few years ago I ran a Suzuki Alto, purely as a town car. (It replaced a lovely Citroen GS which I had always wanted. However after repeated repairs and horrible rust problems I got rid of it.)
In the Alto I only ever changed the oil, needed part of the exhaust replaced, and that was it . Very cheap very reliable motoring, very dull cheap car, my young son called it Piglet- small cheap and nasty. Hated it and sold it on after 3 years. Ive seen a few OLD Altos around , they look as rusty as other 7-8 year old cars that are not looked after.
Car reliability is down to design, manufacturing standards, component design and quality AND maintainance.
I was thinking of replacing my v6 Mondeo with a modern diesel but after all the horror stories about modern diesels I will stick with petrol, always fancied another V8....
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Buy a Volvo S60. Better than all of them.
Thats interesting, DP, because I remember reading in a motoring mag that the Volvo S60's in particular started to feel a bit baggy after around 70,000 miles. Can't see it myself, and they never included V70's, which are basically the same car.
Never heard anything like it since.
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Some of the Honda owners who contribute to this:
www.hondabeat.com/highmiles.php
site have had their cars for up to twenty years. None of them refer to problems which started after seven years of ownership. Why should UK owners have a different experience?
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I have to say that my experience is of cars becoming much less reliable after around 70,000 miles. Admittedly I haven't kept one to that mileage of late but my long-gone Vectra went from poor to dreadful at about that stage and my sister's 1999 Focus and preceding ZX both became problematic at about 80,000 miles each (both owned from new and properly serviced).
I appreciate that there are many on this forum who run cars to much higher mileages and that I'm in a fortunate position in that I can chose not to. To be fair the last car I ran to 60,000 miles was an A4 B5 and it felt like new still. So I guess there are cars which can handle high mileages. SWMBO's '07 FK3 2.2 Civic didn't feel like such a car though, possibly cut from the same cloth as the Jazz ?
Edited by idle_chatterer on 31/01/2010 at 00:07
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Dear oh dear. Some strange stories.
Been doing MoTs for 21 years so I have some idea of which cars last and which dont. Jap stuff is GOOD. Want a tough and long lasting car, then get a Subaru. See wagons and Forester that have been used for horse box towing and they last the distance.
Plenty of Matiz in our corner of the world and they seldom rot badly unless been damaged. Back boxes dont last long and the plastic inlet manifold go manky and leak, but they are a robust little car (engine designed originally by Suzuki).
Some of the older little suzukis are made out of cardboard but they do actually keep going.
Most rusty car is 5+ year old small ford (Ka, Fiesta, Puma, one or two focus) get some nasty rust underneath.
French cars give plenty of troubles but dont usually rust. Even Fiats OK these days.
Not many cars get killed by rust now, usually expensive mechanical or electrical failure and too expensive to repair.
VAG, BMW, Merc last a long time because spares are easily and cheaply availble,. so car is fairly cheap to repair, which in turn keeps values up, which in turn makes them worth repairing!
Had an owner recently scrap a lovely 98 Toyota camry. Sound as a bell, but he whacked it into a kerb on the ice. Bent lower arm and strut and steering TR, car only worth a few £100's and the parts were a lot more than that. We tried to source s/hand for him but couldnt find anything to it was off to the breakers.
Edited by WorkshopTech on 31/01/2010 at 16:14
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Curious about the rust on DP's S60 because I don't think mine has any steel in the boot lid. Must have a look now.
As for 'bagginess', the only signs I see in mine after seven years and 103,000 miles (all in my keeping) are a little split in one of the curious vinyl corner pieces of the upholstery on the driver's seat, and a barely visible crack in one of the knobs on the audio unit. There's a hint more play in the steering than when it was new, but not so's you'd notice.
It's had new antiroll bar drop links, suspension and engine mount bushes, and boot struts - and the cam belt, of course, at the recommended time - as well as a few tyres, bulbs and wiper blades. Otherwise, it's original - battery, clutch, exhaust, brake pads, the lot.
Baggy? Don't think so!
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Baggy? Don't think so!
Nor do I, as I said, I find it hard to believe considering how long Volvo's usually last, I think I read it in CAR magazine on a long term car test, but considering how journo's treat their test cars, I took it with a pinch of salt.
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Buy a Volvo S60. Better than all of them. Agree with the Volvo idea, they used to advertised as lasting 19 years, looked after they are going to outlast many of their owners.
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In any discussion of older Japanese cars, it's always worth considering the New Zealand angle. Here in NZ we have for the last twenty years been one of the largest importers of used Japanese cars. No salt is used for road de-icing here, so cars don't disintegrate the way they do in UK. There are still thousands of mid 1980's Japanese cars giving good service as second or third cars in a family. They are reliable, simple to work on and cheap. They have almost completely supplanted the British cars we used for years. Anything European is regarded as being expensive, potentially unreliable, and fraught with danger. The thought that a 1998 car could be written off due to minor suspension damage is laughable here. In fact the parts for the car above could probably have been sourced cheaply from a NZ online source! Out here we may have more cars per head of population than many other countries, but we don't throw anything away that is useful, perhaps that makes us the real conservationists.
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There are still thousands of mid 1980's Japanese cars giving good service as second or third cars in the family
Exactly the thoughts of my Australian workmate. When he came over here he couldn't believe the stigma attached to Japanese cars, when they had been driving them for years over there. And although they rusted here they were mechanically superior, usually starting first time and driving off, leaving a chorus of straining British starter motors on a cold winters morning.
He says that they don't run so many European cars over there because as you say, they are expensive, and parts for them are scarce, usually needing a long wait before anything arrives. ( Although his brother loves classic cars, and has a BMW 3.0 from the 70's and a Rolls Royce at the moment!)
His current old shape Nissan Micra does 20,000 miles a year and has 122,000 miles on the clock with routine servicing and no breakdowns.
Edited by corax on 31/01/2010 at 21:35
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i got a 2003 honda jazz 1.4 se, and havent any problems with it mechanical or electrical, but i just traded it for a 07 jazz, as for wear and tear, the issue i had was that the seat trim stitching was wearing out causing the seat to split, the dealer wouldnt have repaired the seat trim but replace it all but i didnt have the courage to ask for how much it be as the car was out of warranty and its 6 years old i decided to part exchange it for the jazz 07.
i was tempted to buy the new jazz mk2 as billpayer recent article on the quality of the interior and also the variable servicing interval put me of, the ivtec engine of the jazz mk2 has a different character to the idsi engine, having driven both of them, the 1.2 ivtec and my current 1.4 idsi both have similar power however the idsi engine is more relaxing to drive the engine is more forgiving if you are in the wrong gear, the insurance group is lower in the mk1 jazz than the mk2, the mk1 got a spare tyre, and i dont like the new style luggage rack.
i wouldnt buy a model that is just out but wait and see how it is until its over 2 years and see how it shapes up as owner review it
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