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02 2.0 TDCi knocking noise diagnosed as the conrod - Tony1DB
Hello all!

Can anyone help me, pleeeeeease (and sorry for the long explanation)?

I have a 2002 52 Reg Mondeo 130 TDCI Zetec with 150k on the clock and FSH. It has never given me any problems except for a new water pump and power steering pump at about 140k and new rear sub-frame at about 135k - all in all, costing me over £1k.

Even throughout this cold winter/snow we've just had, it has started first time, everytime.

Except for this time...! I went to start it after leaving it overnight, when it turned over but never fired up. Then one of the orange lights started flashing (I describe it as the 'glowplug looking light'). It keeps flashing now.

No matter what, it wouldn't start and white smoke poured out of the exhaust.
Quick call to my mechanic followed and based on what I told him, he thought it was the glowplugs, so told me to keep turning it over until the engine caught, then get it to him. He said the white smoke was unburnt diesel.

I did as he said (maybe my biggest mistake!) - engine eventually fired up, but ran 'lumpy'. As I drove up the road, I could her a loud-ish knocking coming from the engine. Lumpiness cleared a little and there was no power (limp mode?).

First, glowplugs etc were checked, along with other things, then the injectors were taken out to be checked - apparently, no problem with them.

Now, the garage is saying that a 'conrod' has possibly gone and to sort it, will be an expensive engine-out job (estimated at £1k not incl. the work done so far).

Soooo, a few questions to you experts out there:

1) Does this sound like the right diagnosis?
2) Does the rate sound 'ok'?
3) Why has this happened - have I done something wrong?
4) I really don't know what my car is worth, so is it worth keeping (probably a silly question bearing in mind the clutch has never been replaced so far, I need a new auxillary tensioner thingy-me-jig plus a new set of brake discs, pads and a service!)?
5) Is it worth buying a second-hand engine?

My partner and I are expecting our first baby, as well as trying to buy a house plus trying to buy her something reliable to drive - so while I could get a another car, cash flow is not great and I'd rather not unless I'd be stupid to put more money into this one!

Sorry for so much text - I just hope you guys can help!

Thank you all very much,
Tony.

Edited by Webmaster on 28/01/2010 at 00:57

02 2.0 TDCi knocking noise diagnosed as the conrod - brianbrew
hi am having a problem similar to you these ford tdci cars are nowt but trouble i use to own a vw polo 06 reg 1.4 petrol and never ever had any trouble with it i wont be buying another diesel car even the corsa 1.3 cdti has camshaft trouble they eventually snap leaving people stranded
02 2.0 TDCi knocking noise diagnosed as the conrod - WorkshopTech
As usual, it is hard to say what the problem is without seeing the car. Assuming the bent conrod diagnosis is correct then it is possible that the fuel system over-fuelled the engine, causing one cylinder to lock and bending the conrod.
Frankly, unless you can do much of the work yourself, or get a very cheap used engine (not easy) this car is probably scrap as far as you are concerned.
Might be worth trying to sell it as a 'repairable' and so someone with a bit of time, and knowledge of TDCI's might be prepared to give you sensible money for it.
02 2.0 TDCi knocking noise diagnosed as the conrod - Dynamic Dave
>> even the corsa 1.3 cdti has camshaft trouble they eventually snap

I think you'll find it's the 1.2 Suzuki petrol engine and not the diesel engine that is having camshaft problems.

www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=78279

02 2.0 TDCi knocking noise diagnosed as the conrod - Roly93
I would get a second opinion on this, as to bend a conrod takes a significant event such as water-ingestion which I dont think should be the case here.

This could still be an injection problem - timing, quantity etc etc.

Even though you may have a loud knock this may still only be fueling related. The white smoke is a clue I think, maybe there has been a sensor problem which has caused the whole issue. From what you've described, there is no reason to suspect that a major engine problem has just suddenly happened.

Maybe the garage is turning of the life-support machine on this patient too soon !
02 2.0 TDCi knocking noise diagnosed as the conrod - Englishbullterrier
I've 'hydrauliced' a few model aero engines in my time but would have thought it almost impossible to bend a car conrod like this ??.....ebt
02 2.0 TDCi knocking noise diagnosed as the conrod - WorkshopTech
I've 'hydrauliced' a few model aero engines in my time but would have thought it
almost impossible to bend a car conrod like this ??.....ebt


It is possible, trust me, seen it a few times!
02 2.0 TDCi knocking noise diagnosed as the conrod - Englishbullterrier
Wow, so immediate loss of compression on that pot as well as associated misalignment issues then ? .......ebt

SQ

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 28/01/2010 at 12:50

02 2.0 TDCi knocking noise diagnosed as the conrod - 547HEW
I agree with Roly93, could be wrong diagnosis. Has a code read been done? Although its pre-EOBD, the level of diagnostics on this vehicle should be capable of indicating a failed sensor.
02 2.0 TDCi knocking noise diagnosed as the conrod - madf
The diagnosis could well be correct. Failed glowplug, frequent turning over oevrfuels cylinder with no plug,,, hydraulic lock and bang.

Of course, it could have bent a valve.. a quick rocker cover removal would confirm this ..visible.

IF a conrod has gone, a quick compression test will show which cylinder is down on power.. (can you do compression tests on diesels?)..
02 2.0 TDCi knocking noise diagnosed as the conrod - Number_Cruncher
As per WT, con rod bending is quite a likely outcome. One possibility is that one injector didn't close properly, and the high pressure fuel in the common rail simply leaked through - it's possible thqat this leak prevented the rail pressure rising far enough for the ECU to even begin signalling the injectors to open.

As an aside, the buckling of struts under compressive loadings is technically a very interesting mode of failure, and represents a case of an instability rather than a gross material failure - although this doesn't help if it's your conrod that's buckled!

02 2.0 TDCi knocking noise diagnosed as the conrod - WorkshopTech
This is one reason why inexperienced/untrained shouldn't mess with CR diesels. If injector gets stuck open then very major damage can follow!!
02 2.0 TDCi knocking noise diagnosed as the conrod / Injectors - who knows! - Tony1DB

Hello all.

Ok, update for you (and sorry for delay in getting back to all of you - baby girl delivered 27th April, weighing 7lbs 1oz!)...

Summary is that my Mondy would not start, flashing glow plug light, told to keep turning it over until it fired up which I did with lots of white smoke. Car started but ran lumpy. Injectors looked at but told ok (apart from minor fault, corrected by re-coding).

After a few weeks, my garage told me they could not find what was wrong with my car. They said they could start stripping the engine, changing bits until they found out what was wrong with it, but I had to be prepared to pay a potental £1k! They then said to take the car away, use it and find another garage.

With the baby on the way, I did not have the money to burn like that, so I used my car until I could find another garage.

Every morning, my car would start first time BUT, would smoke lots and the engine would run really lumpy. The engine itself would really wobble.

After about a minute, the engine would smooth out and run like a dream. Subsequent start ups would go without a hitch - first time with no lumpiness.

However, if I left the car for a good few hours or overnight, it would start first time, but with all the smoke and lumpiness until the engine smoothed out.

I noticed that, as time went on, the lumpiness seemed to be lessening with not so much smoke especially as the weather started to warm up.

When I told my garage the above, they reckoned my car was low on compression (problems starting up when cold, but once hot and everything tight again, problem would go) and that it was not worth repairing.

On the day my missus went into labour, the Mondeo gave up again, forcing me to borrow my Dad's car. I was desperate for a car, so went to the auctions and bought a Mk5 VW Golf GT TDI 140 BHP 0n a 56 plate (2007).

Desperation and auctions = not good and the VW is playing up (see my other post on this!).

Because we are a 'one car' family due to money, I am desperate to get the Mondeo back on the road, so have spoken to other mechanics. One garage put it on their diagnostic machine and said all my injectors were shot - even though the injector specialist said they were fine (though my garage and the specialist had a row over my car so who knows what really happened when my car was with them!).

Other suggestions are that there is a fuel delivery problem, Fuel Metering Unit is gone (common on TDCI's) and that the wiring loom within the Common Rail, has gone hard and brittle (until engine is hot and oil has softened it up, so making the necessary connections for things to work properly).

Soooo, after that loooooong explanation, what do you guys out there think?!

I will be eternally grateful for your replies, thoughts and suggestions.

With thanks and best regards,

Tony.

02 2.0 TDCi knocking noise diagnosed as the conrod / Injectors - who knows! - spawney

I have a friend who works at Dunton, he did quite a lot of work on the injection systems on these engines.They were known as twinbox, the system was made by Delphi and are c***, he spent most of his time trying to find ways of programming out faults to get dealerships out of the guano and the warranty period. I am in no doubt your problem is injectors, as i am a cabbie and witnessed the same problems on many of our circuits mondys of the same year. has anyone done a leakback test ,or cleaned the E.G.R. valve out, the best people to talk to are united diesels, they wont b******* you and do a very reasonable recon injector set with a warranty. I wish you lived near me i have a small garage i use and they realy know there stuff [ walk on water] . It realy sounds injector try and find someone with a decent fault code reader with up to date software, if it was engine damage it would run lousey all the time, trust me i have sat behind to many of the 02 mondeos being gassed while i waited for a fare, when the injectors are on there way out they always run to rich before going the same way as yours.