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hi i really need some help my car was running fine before i changed the injector seals and metal injector pipes i just had the smell of fumes in the car and slightly leaky round the injectors but now ive put the new seals on etc the car wont start at all its just turning over no sign of it going ive got no engine lights on ive double checked everything ive even put the injectors back in the same holes as i marked them up could they have lost there programme to the ecu theres no air locks and plenty of diesel is getting through ive been told it could be a certain hidden fuse & This particular fuse controls power to the Ecu and other components ? does any1 know where this This particular fuse is ? its just like something has shut down ? any help would be greatfull thanks
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I am no expert but I had a similar problem after changing seals on 1 injector on a 1.6 TDCI C-Max. It was eventually diagnosed as a faulty injector even though it ran OK beforehand. On the C-Max the injectors were not coded. Are you sure you are getting fuel through, because my mechanic initially advised me that these are a pig to get started once the fuel lines are disturbed. They tow them to get them started to avoid burning out the starter.
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hi mate yes ive undone the metal injector pipes and bleed the system and theres plenty of diesel squirting out of them all ive towed it round the block several times it sometimes goes bit rattly with clouds of smoke then cuts out if you spray a bit of diesel down the air intake pipe the car sometimes starts with again lots of smoke then cuts out i just cant understand it also ive noticed sometimes the clocks lcd display that tells you the car dorrs open and trip miles etc sometimes the screens breaks up and the writings back to front ? its like theres a volatge shut down somewhere or somthing like a ecu fuse
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hello how is the best way to test diesel injectors to see if there firing? also if 1 out of the 4 injectors is not working will the car still start on the other 3 ? and if you spray easy start into a air intake and the car starts then cuts out does this mean theres a injector faulty even tough the diesel is getting through the pipes and squirting perfect with no air locks ?
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You really would need an oscilloscope as the injectors only get a short ( few milliseconds ) square wave voltage applied.
You would probably see something on a digital voltmeter but it wouldn't be anything meaningfull due to the short square wave, but would at least show if voltage was reaching the injectors.
Have you tried disconnecting the battery for a few mins.
If the injectors are getting power, perhaps one is damaged internally & leaking all the pressure to the spill pipe.
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hi mate thanks for the reply yes ive put a voltage meter on the leads that plug into the top of the injectors and theres defo power getting to them can you tell me if am geting clouds of white smoke when i tow it to get it started does this mean its a faulty injector and do they need programming and which injector is the main 1 that kills the engine and is cylinder 1 near the gearbox or cambelt on the fiesta 1.6 tdci ? thanks
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I think you need to get the diagnostics read. These are no longer simple engines, common rail stuff is complex and you could spend a fortune on things and get nowhere.
Is this the PSA HDi engine? There are lots of reasons why they might not start and I'm pretty sure that tow starting them is a bad idea.
Can you be sure you didnt get any dirt in the injectors?
Do you have a bulb to prime it? You can get a leak test kit fairly cheaply but if you are not getting sufficient pressure then the engine wont run.
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hi its the duratorq 1.6 tdci engine same as the peugeot 407 1.6 hdi engine theres no primer bulb on this model but theres plenty of diesel getting round everywhere and the pressure is spot on it seems theres no diesel getting into the chambers on the injector or injectors but theres plenty of fuel getting through the metal injector pipes to the injectors i was told that injector 1 is the main injector for the engine not to start and will shut it down ? should i try swappinga injector from 1 hole to another to see if the car starts incase 1 has gone down would this make any difference or if 1 injector has gone faulty would it shut the lot down?
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also i unscrewed the end of the injector where the plug goes into on the end cylinder near the gearbox end i noticed theres a small spring and a tiny spacer with a metal round spiing sort of turntable whta does this all do as it doesnt seem to do anything just spin round again a piece of metal on the injector is it to time the injector needle or something
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Brianbrew
With all due respect these are not engines that take kindly to what we call in the trade a poke and hope approach. You will end up doing damage either to yourself or the car since its clear that you dont really know what you are doing (I dont mean that in a nasty way, these are complex engines that defeat plenty of time serviced motor technicians).
Towing the thing around and endless cranking wont do it any good. Get someone involved who knows about these engines and has some diag kit.
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hi no probs mate a mate has just brought a obd tool round i plugged it in it says cylinder 1 open circuit ? is that the cylinder near gearbox or cambelt does this mean the injector is faulty ?
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If the OBD is seeing No 1 cylinder o/c then the ECU is not seeing the coil resistance from that cylinder injector coil.
The correct resistance should be in the range of tens of ohms.
As you have probably only disturbed the wiring at the injectors the problem will probably either be with the injector or its plug.
Measure the coil resistance with your meter at each plug & one will probably open circuit or have a much higher resistance than the other 3.
Sounds like it will probably be the one you have dismantled.
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Hi thanks for the reply the car is really doing my head in now everyday ive tried all sorts hte only thats baffling me is there was a rubber plug type that fell of the engine under the inlet manifold it look like a rubber thats on the engine cover but this has a flat sealed end got told its a leak / of cap so just wondering if this is causing a fault sucking in air etc and if theres any way of getting it back on to wherever it goes without taking that plastic manifold of again
Is there something wrong with your caps lock key? Seems to default to the on position all the time
Edited by Webmaster on 23/01/2010 at 22:14
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I think you should stop playing with it and take it to a diesel specialist - check they know about hdi engines (this is a peugeot design).
How do you know that the pressure is spot on? Have you read the live values from the common rail pressure sensor? If that isnt seeing the correct pressure then it wont let the engine run.
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hi am going to book it in at ford i had a guy came round and tested the diesel pressure and he said the bar was spot on no leaks and straight stong output and reakons its got a faulty injector or the ecu has lost its programme to the injectors
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hi sunbeamer seems you had the same problem as what ive got now on this tdci did u take the injectors out and have them tested or did you just plug the car into a diagnostic machine and did the fault show as a faulty injector was the engine light on so the fault could be shown
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Cylinder 1 is at clutch end. Resistance of a piezo type injector (fitted to this engine) is in region of 200k ohm
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i just changed the injector seals and the rubbers that sit ontop of the engine where the injectors go through in and the car will not start at all ive checked the diesel and its running through everywhere and theres plenty of diesel coming through the high presure pipes i do remember there was a bit of rubberof the rubber seal that fell into the hole nearest to the gearbox (cylinder 1) but tried to get it out and couldnt see it think its fell to the bottom and the hole doesnt look blocked etc but not to sure if this would not make the car start or not and is there any best way to get the small bit of rubber out and where has it gone as i cant see it
{This question is related to previous ones you've asked, so merged with previous thread}
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 28/01/2010 at 10:12
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With all due respect it sounds like you have created you own problems by fiddling with stuff that you shouldn't have done. Not only have you changed the seals and possibly the metal injector pipes, but you have also had an injector in bits for no reason and lost something that was possibly a rubber bung down the hole into number 1 cylinder, that you don't really know what it did.
If I was you I would heed the advice that has already been given and take it to a proper specialist who knows what they are doing to sort it out before you end up in an even bigger mess.
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no i changed the copper waher and the plastic spacer on each injector and on the top of the engine there is 4 rubber seals that you tap out its what the injector goes through when i came to do the end injector near the gearbox cylinder 1 a tiny bit of rubber fell into the hole and when i took the smae sylinder 1 injector out the top where the plug goes into was loose so i had a look inside to see if there was any washsers that needed replacing and there wasnt so i put it back together as it should be made sure everything went where it did go
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>my car was running fine before i changed the injector seals and metal injector pipes
>also i unscrewed the end of the injector where the plug goes into on the end cylinder near
>the gearbox end i noticed theres a small spring and a tiny spacer with a metal round
>spiing sort of turntable
>i do remember there was a bit of rubberof the rubber seal that fell into the hole nearest to
>the gearbox (cylinder 1) but tried to get it out and couldnt see it think its fell to the bottom
It is becoming difficult to follow in this thread exactly what you have done and what you haven't done and what you may have knackered in the process. I give in with trying to second guess - take it to a specialist!
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i just told you exactly whats happened in my last note and yes i did change the metal injector pipes as ford recommended me to change them aslwell as the seals i have not lost anything from inside the injector jusy a bit of tiny rubber went doen the hole in cylinder 1 from the seal that sits on the top of the rocker where the injector slided through etc
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A fragment of rubber is unlikely to do any harm if dropped into the inlet manifold.
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thanks mate thats all i wanted to hear so everything is back as it should be and diesel is perfect and flowing perfectly through the pipes etc but the car will only start if i spray a little easystart into the air intake pipe but with lots of white smokw so my guess is its a injector thats gone down itsn in the dealers now been there for 1 day they range me and said they havnt found anything wrong now and they will ring me back on monday now after the weekend lol
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(update)
well ive had 3 mechanics look at the car after changing the injector seals and still no luck and now its in the ford dealers and even they cant get it started i think myself 1 of the injectors have gone down many people seem to have problems getting the car running again after changing theses seals why ? nobody seems to know? no even the dealers it must be something simple as there plenty of diesel? the best thing to do is mark each injector ie 1234 so you know where they go and find a diesel place near you that you can drop of the injectors and have them tested as sometime 1 can fail even though it was running b4 hand let me know how you get on when i get this ford running its going soon as ive checked the web sites and the seals seem to go every 2000 miles best thing is get a petrol version as theres no problems with them just these horible dirty diesels
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brian, what did you hear back from ford ?
I had this exact issue. Just curious to see what they said... ?
When completing this job, I had installed new copper seals, new bushes, new fuel return line (complete kit), new inlet o-rings.
I got the car running (eventually) and thought "great!". So , I took it for a road test and then shortly after it started smoking badly from engine bay, loud injector noise, popping sounds. Parked up and stopped engine. Dismantled again, cleaned everything, some new seals hear and there and now no start...
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Did anybody find out what the problem was? I’m having the same issue with my Ford Focus car was running fine before changed injector seal now the car won’t start we’ve primed the fuel and everything seems as it should
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I changed mine yesterday #nightmare. Had to recheck the nuts were all tightened properly after leaking some diesel. Found I had to hit the throttle a little and soon started seems to judder and white smoke at the moment but haven't given it a good run yet
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Hi,
Just had this fault on my fiesta 54 plate 1.6 diesel.
Spent all day trying to figure it out, looking on forum after forum. No one seemed to be able to pin point the the cause. So thought i’d Write my findings to help one else out in the future.
Now my symptoms were that the engine would crank but not fire. And I had just sealed the injector.
Considering that the car was running fine before I changed the seal so I was assuming everything was good e.g. injectors, starter, ecu etc.
After doing some digging into ford manuals I managed to figure out that there are 2 pumps.
1 low pressure pump that flows fuel from the tank to the fuel filter.
1 high pressure pump that pulls fuel from the fuel filter and injects fuel at 1400 bar to the injectors.
The important part is the way in which the high pressure pump works.
This pump pulls fuel from the fuel filter. If there is air in this line it’s possible for the pump to create a vacuum in this line and draw in more air from the unions/connections. Therefore it is critical to ensure there is air free fuel in this line.
To ensure air free fuel you must ensure the fuel filter has been primed using a diesel priming pump.
I then connected the priming pump between the outlet of the fuel filter to the hose that’s usually connected to it (this hose is the suction for the high pressure pump). I pumped fuel through this line for a little while and bled off any air that came from the line.
When you feel as if the air has been removed quickly disconnect the pump and reconnect the line to the fuel filter. ( as quick as you can to minimise any air ingress)
When starting the car I got a little tip to turn on the ignition for 10 secs and off again for 10 secs. I repeated this 5 times then tried to start the car. ( I don’t know whether this actually helped but I thought I’d mention it)
When starting engine depress the accelerator too. (Not 100% whether this helped either but worth a mention again)
Another thing to mention is that I charged the battery fully. Many attempts of trying to start the engine had caused it loose power.
It was with great pleasure that the car finally started once I’d completed these tasks and I hope this has been a help to anyone out there with the same issue.
Ryan
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Hi Ryan could you tell me more about how you bled the pipe that supplies the fuel pump,didn't it just fill up and then squirt diesel everywhere ? or does it go through the pump ?
Thanks
Matt.
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After scouring the forums I finally found a solution to this starting problem.
I bled the diesel system on my 1.6 tdci fusion 2005 by connecting a one way had primer to the return pipe on the high pressure side. I then turned the key to the second notch a few times in order for the hp pump to prime itself I also added a bit of easy start to the air intake and then tried to start. The first attempt didn't work but the second did !
I think we're focusing too much on bleeding the fuel filter when we should be concentrating on pulling air-free fuel through the pump.
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