I picked my mother in law up yesterday and she announced she has put down a deposit on a Feb 09 A3 2.0 TDI S tronic Sportback, from a main dealer.
She is changing from a 99 SLK 230K, as its too small and low for her now.
She drives no more than 10k per year, short local trips, with a few longer motorway trips over the year.
Now obviously I know she doesn?t need a 2.0 Audi diesel for this and that she could buy 2 ceeds/foci/golf(well 1.5 Golfs) etc that will do exactly the same thing as the Audi for the same money.
But to be far, it looks nice on the drive, its her money and she likes it, so I don?t have any issue with the car choice in general, as they do have a nice (perception of) quality about them.
I?m just a bit worried about the long term, self funded ownership proposition of the 2.0TDI (140) and the tronic gearbox (is this the same as the VW DSG?). Given likely use in short local trips, is this asking for trouble and expense? (Dual Mass wossits and Particle Filters etc)
Any knowledge about engine/gearbox this set-up in the A3 ? is there anything to fear or am I being a worry wart?
My gut says try and coach her in to a petrol manual (but again which one for longevity?)
Incidentally the Audit dealer has offered her £3k for the SLK, which seems low to me. Per AT they are offered around £5-7k. Any thoughts?
Thanks
Nick
|
I had an A3 2.0TDI Manual for just over 3 years with no issues in 46k to do with the drive train. I did a mix of short journeys of up to 5 miles but probably more often than not it was 10 miles plus being driven. Over that time I also was working at an Audi dealership during the summers from uni (in order to fund the car - which I bought before I worked at a dealership). We saw many many cars go through with no issues and relatively few with issues.
At around the same time my father was driving a VW Touran 2.0TDI DSG which is an identical drive train. He had no problems over about the same time frame with only about 36k covered. His journeys were generally very short or very long and he had no problems either.
With regard to the issues with Dual Mass Flywheels I would suggest that for every 1 car be it a Ford, an Audi or a BMW with an issue, there are thousands (maybe tens of thousands) driving around completely issue free. With the Particulate Filter it may be more likely to clog due to short journeys but it is unlikely to need more than a reasonable run every so often to clear it (they are self regenerating after all).
Personally I don't like the DSG/S-Tronic gearbox. It's dead quick and smooth once moving but it has two glitches that I don't like.
1. When moving off from a standstill the takeup isn't anything like as quick as a normal auto or manual. You have to essentially take your foot off the brake, let the car engage gear THEN accelerate otherwise you get a very jerky start. Might be a problem, might not.
2. Imagine you're approaching a roundabout slowing from 50 in 6th to ~25 in 3rd (whether manual or S-Tronic). As you approach the roundabout you can see the road from the right is clear and if you power on at the right time you'll glide safely through a nice big gap before the truck arrives on the roundabout. In the manual you drop from 6th to 3rd (or 2nd), squeeze the peddle and go. In a conventional auto you'd put your foot down, it would slur a little but still move during the slur. In an S-Tronic it panics. It doesn't know what to do, it can't see the lorry coming, all it knows is that when it was expecting you to keep slowing (so it's gliding in 6th) you suddenly demanded power. How much, does it want 2nd or 3rd. 3rd is closer and easier to select as it's on the "other" clutch so it goes for that - but it's taken a few moments (that feel like hours) to decide that. When it does decide that the road speed has fallen so far it might need 2nd instead. Which is it 2nd/3rd/2nd/3rd? A few more milliseconds trip by with the truck still approaching your right hand side - after all he doesn't know your gearbox has just gone to starbucks for a coffee while it decides what to do. Then BANG it goes for 2nd while your foot is mashed near to/at the floor. Revs soar, turbo suddenly comes on boost massively and you catapult out of the way, at least you would do if the traction control didn't have a severe dislike to the sudden application of power. Instead it flicks on a couple of times and then moves out of the way.
All DSG boxes that I know of have done this to me - more so on Diesels than Petrols I admit, but all have the same basic issue because they can't read the road ahead. It won't affect every driver, those that stop at every roundabout and those that use the paddles to shift down the gears too won't have a problem. For my driving style I find them a little bit unnerving because of issue 2 above.
Offer for SLK sounds like a standard opening offer really - you could probably get a little more for it.
|
|
spot on there, CJE, perfect description. I bought an '05 Tdi 140 at 36k two years ago and had so many parts replaced under warranty because of the DSG "failure" (feature, Audi called it), including the main control unit. Never sorted to my satisfaction. One of my sons has a Golf (petrol) Gti DSG and it doesn't suffer the delays "feature" - but he's had a replacement main control unit at under 20k miles. The actual gearchanges are seamless, but I would never have another VAG auto. Love the car but would only have a manual 'box.
|
|
|
2. Imagine you're approaching a roundabout slowing from 50 in 6th to ~25 in 3rd
I would do as you suggest with the manual and manually select the gear required as it is an automated manual gearbox with override. Drive it like a manual with no clutch pedal and you'll enjoy it so much more than thinking of it as a TC auto.
I have not driven one of the VAG offerings, EGS does a similar thing though hanging on to as high a gear as possible when slowing down.
Also, there is no engine braking offered from these set-ups unless you take control manually.
|
Gmac, you're absolutely correct the best way to get a result that is safe and satisfactory is to drive the car as you describe, with a manual mindset.
The problem is VAG are marketing S-Tronic/DSG as an alternative to a conventional automatic and progressively eliminating Torque converter and CVT Autos from their range. What they are really doing is changing the lower end cars from offering Manual/Auto to offering Manual (with or without a clutch). This caused a significant amount of disappointment for some owners who often had ordered one without a test drive. Now Audi are rolling them out on the A4/A5/Q5 range too - so pretty soon if you want a proper Automatic Audi you'll have to have an A6, A8 or Q7. This will be shame because the 3.0TDI A4 with the ZF Auto is a dream to drive.
|
thanks for the input so far.
in terms of my original post - is she making a big mistake or am i fussing about nowt?
|
|
If she's driven it and likes the way it drives you're fussing about nowt. Fundamentally good engine, fundamentally good gearbox with electronics that are no better/worse than any other auto. Miles better than a 1.6 Petrol which can only get out of its own way with a following wind
|
Tend to agree with most of the chaps above.
Personally I am not an audi fan, I think the ride is to harsh on most models and the A4 interior is to plasticky - I hope they change it soon. The TDi whilst not as refined as most is punchy and reliable and so far there does not appear to be any of the horror stories I was expecting with the DSG box.
BiL has the same model you are thinking about - it is a 54 plate and no reported problems to date.
|
|
thanks all, i will let her get on with it then
|
|
|
|
I have a five year old CR diesel. Contrary to what can be read here, the car is still on its original injectors, fuel pump and DMF. This car does not have a DPF.
My wife has a more recent DPF kitted diesel which has not suffered a blocked filter requiring a return to the maindealer and that car is used for short journeys - the car covers less than 10k miles per year.
Reading another thread here suggests Audi use a fluid type DPF which requires some additional maintenance but is better suited to short journeys than the dry, no maintenance (until it clogs up inside) system.
I wouldn't worry too much. it has a warranty until 2012 if it is a 2009 car.
|
|
I'd avoid any version of the 2.0 PD engine, especially with a DPF - thirsty, very unrefined and unpleasant power delivery. If (as I suspect) it's CR then that's a different proposition all together. My experience is based on the 2.0 170PD with DPF in the A4 B7, to be fair I had no problems with the DPF but the engine was awful in so many ways when compared to a Honda 2.2 CTDi we ran at the same time.
Edited by idle_chatterer on 23/01/2010 at 20:13
|
I picked up my A3 Sportback S-LIne 140 diesel (manual) a week ago. Just done a 300+ mile round trip and used less than half a tank of diesel. The ride seemed hard after 3 years of wafting along in my Peugeot, but I've soon got used to it. Very refined engine and I felt fresh after getting home.
(Didn't want the DSG. I believe that need an expensive oil change at 40k)
|
If anyone wants an Audi with the same level of performance but a softer ride, just go for the SE rather than the S-Line. Horses for courses.
That choice is one thing you get with Audi that you don;t with Skoda. To get the Golf GTI (200 bhp) or GTD (CR 170) engine in an Octavia you have to have the vRS. I'd have gone for the Elegance with slightly softer suspension if I could have had the CR 170 in it.
Edited by Avant on 25/01/2010 at 00:19
|
|
|
|
I'd avoid any version of the 2.0 PD engine especially with a DPF - thirsty, very unrefined and unpleasant power delivery.
And a lot starting to fail with porous heads according to my VW tech friend.
|
"And a lot starting to fail with porous heads according to my VW tech friend. "
Does this apply to all 2.0TDI engines or just the 170PS version?
Compared with the 140PS I believe that the 170 version has a few mods ?
|
With regards the SLK.. for £3k I would be offering to buy it from her and keep it as a fun car.
Bit of a derisory offer from the dealer IMO, and a nice oppotuniuty for you to pick up a bargain set of wheels, with known history :-)
|
|
|
All 2.0 TDI PD engines according to him.
Of course, there are millions of these engines out there running happily. It's like every other "common fault" - just because it's common doesn't mean it's necessarily likely to happen to an individual car. Just seems a shame that the 1.9 PD, on which this engine is based, was mechanically bulletproof (as long as you put the right oil in it)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
