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Ski - Drive holiday to Chamonix / Argentiere - PR {P}
As the title I am booked to go on a ski holiday to the Chamonix / Argentiere area first week in March. I understand I will need snow tyres as it is a legal requirement. My car handbook (Fiat Bravo Sport 2007) says wheels unsuitable for chains however all advice seems to point to "micro" chains being ok (they are 9mm thick).

Has anyone ever used them? Also, I understand that they tend to be very good at keeping the roads clear in and around the resorts, anyone had any experiences around there? Thanks
Ski - Drive holiday to Chamonix / Argentiere - PR {P}
Sorry, I meant legal requirement for snow CHAINS not tyres!
Ski - Drive holiday to Chamonix / Argentiere - boxsterboy
Whether or not it's a legal requirement, you would be mad to go there on normal tyres without chains, although the weather in March should be warmer. But you MUST try putting them on in the dark and cold at home (the weather that is bound to prevail should you need them out there!).

Drove in Chamonix once a few years back, and due to the size of the town I would have thought they would clear the main roads pretty quickly. Me, I'll be happy on my winter tyres!
Ski - Drive holiday to Chamonix / Argentiere - Mapmaker
>>you would be mad to go there on normal tyres without chains

Too right. Moreover, you will find that carrying chains is a legal requirement in the hills during winter. No driving up the valley without them, and a little man at the bottom of the hill enforcing it.

Whilst they will clear the roads quickly, there's nothing like an 18 inch dump overnight with snow continuing to dump at the rate of a couple of inches an hour for making a resort inaccessible very quickly indeed.




Ski - Drive holiday to Chamonix / Argentiere - PR {P}
Yes I would practice before I go! I dont want to use the car whilst I am there, it will be used to get in and out of Argentiere only.

Thanks for the advice
Ski - Drive holiday to Chamonix / Argentiere - Mapmaker
it will be used to get in and out of Argentiere only.



So... when you arrive at 10pm on Saturday after an awful journey in the snow and the children are screaming and hungry. And you reach the bottom of the hill and it is still snowing and the policeman is turning away everybody without chains - at which point you go to the nearest all night garage which has bumped up the prices of its chains...


And then when you leave it's snowing for the second time that week - it having rained at 3,000 metres all week - and you cannot even get out of the car park, let alone down the hill without ending up in the ditch on account of the snow...


But it's OK, as you didn't drive anywhere during the week (when it was raining...)
Ski - Drive holiday to Chamonix / Argentiere - PR {P}
??
I have stated I will be taking chains that are said to fit my car, and was asking if anyone had experience of them, no where did I suggest I wasn't taking them so not quite sure what you are trying to say??
Ski - Drive holiday to Chamonix / Argentiere - Mapmaker
>>I have stated I will be taking chains that are said to fit my car,

Where?

Anyway, glad to hear it, have fun there's supposed to be loads of snow!
Ski - Drive holiday to Chamonix / Argentiere - PR {P}
Well implied it anyway ;)

Yes its my first time hence the slight apprehension!
Ski - Drive holiday to Chamonix / Argentiere - Nsar
Any good?

tinyurl.com/yfj425x

Edited by Nsar on 18/01/2010 at 18:20

Ski - Drive holiday to Chamonix / Argentiere - ipsfr
My opinion is I would buy the Michelin Easygrip things in preference to metal chains now. They are far lighter and there's much less risk of damaging the car should they break - which is a real possibility if they aren't fitted correctly. On the one occasion I have been to Les Arcs there was a UK reg BMW parked at the top of the hill with one of the chains severely wrapped round its brakes etc.

The reason you might need them is if you don't have winter tyres, as you seem to appreciate already. That night we went to Les Arcs the snow had been falling all day. The chain fitting areas at the bottom of the hill in Bourg St Maurice were full of people fitting chains even though the road surface was not snowy enough down in the valley. Then they had to drive very very slowly because of this. We sailed all the way up on winter tyres without any problem in spite of the increasingly snowy road surface, and by the time we got to the top there was only snow. Part way up I stopped and asked a gendarme if I needed to fit chains, and he said no not as long as I had winter tyres. Sometimes it is necessary in addition to the specialist tyres, but in most cases it isn't.

Ski - Drive holiday to Chamonix / Argentiere - PR {P}
I have seen those Michelin things, they look good, as does the auto sock. The auto sock however isn't seen as adequate in Europe.

I am going to look into the winter tyre scenario. I could get a set fitted then take them off at the end of March, then put them back on in November, even in a normal UK winter they won't do any harm. The size is 225 45 17 though so not sure how cheap a set would be, though I do know a local tyre place owner quite well....
Ski - Drive holiday to Chamonix / Argentiere - boxsterboy
I think you will have difficulties getting winter tyes in the UK now, even in France they are reportedly sold out, but you could try pneus online, who will deliver to a local UK tyre fitter.
Ski - Drive holiday to Chamonix / Argentiere - PR {P}
I am not due to leave until late Feb so there hopefully is time for stock levels to recover should I go that way.

For anyone else interested there is a web site with up to date road conditions down in the Chamonix valley....

www.chamonix.com/page.php?page=0&r=welcome&ling=en

(link on the right hand side)
Ski - Drive holiday to Chamonix / Argentiere - PR {P}
By the way, on the above link I am assuming snow tyres = winter tyres, am I right?

Surely they dont mean the skinny studded type (they can't expect you to stop and put 4 tyres on can they???)
Ski - Drive holiday to Chamonix / Argentiere - ipsfr
Yes, when they mention snow tyres they mean winter tyres - Conti Winter Contact for example. Depending on how long you intend to keep your current car it will likely make much more sense to buy a set of skinnier steel rims and skinny tyres. As I said somewhere for a Volvo 850 on 205x55 16's or similar it was cheaper to buy 195x65 15 rims and tyres than winter tyres to fit the alloys. It must be to do with how many they sell, but the difference was as big as that - steel rim plus skinny winter was cheaper than low profile winter. Another question is storage space, but tyres on rims aren't any more bulky than just tyres.
Ski - Drive holiday to Chamonix / Argentiere - PR {P}
I have done some more digging, and apparently the Bravo handbook has been changed to say that my model can accept snow chains that are no more than 7mm thick.

Does anyone know generally how close to the bone these measurements are? Most chains come as 12mm and a few now at 9mm for cars with low suspension etc..

I have since found these Maggi ones, which are 8mm thick

tinyurl.com/yatm6mn


Does anyone know from experience how accurate the manufacturers recommendations tend to be in these matters?

THanks
Ski - Drive holiday to Chamonix / Argentiere - Peter Steele

I have a 2009 Sport model. Handbook says that 16 inch wheel is okay for s/chains, 17 wheel needs low-profile chains, 18 inch chains not allowed at all. If you look at the clearance between tyre and wing, you can see why! I have used chains for years on ski hols, but not on the Bravo.

I stopped skiing in 2006, but my experience is that you rarely need snow chains , except in the uncleared car park in the resort. If you need them on the motorway, then you are talking days to get there!! Chamonix is quite low and hence less likely to get cut off than say Les Deux Alpes, but to be brutally honest, if you find that you need chains and you are travelling at peak times, the roads to the ski resorts come very quickly to a halt as the police close them until they are safe, usually within a few hours and its best to get a hotel, especially if you are not experienced in driving in snow. Speaking as someone who has 4 sets of chains in his garage, its cheaper to hire them!!! I have seen signs saying snow chains compulsery, but this is usually only if you are crossing a pass e.g. Col de Luze and I dont know if you need to cross one.

Dont forget to take a spade and make sure your passengers are well dressed and have grippy shoes so that you can be pushed. The French are well organised and know that they have to keep the roads clear to enable skiers to spend their cash at the resorts, so they are on your side.

My suspicion with the Bravo tyres is that they will be not very good in snow, but I did not really try them out in the snow this year.

Good luck

Ski - Drive holiday to Chamonix / Argentiere - gfewster

Have to agree with Peter Steele's sentiments. I've done a fair amount of driving up into ski resorts over the last few years.

What I've found it that although the signs say you must be carrying chains to go up the mountain, in reality few people (and crucially, the locals) actually carry them. Putting them on is very tricky and time consuming, and you just end up having to take them off again as soon as you come to a ploughed stretch.

To be honest, you can have a few inches of compacted snow on the road and most front wheel drive cars will manage fine on ordinary tyres without chains. If there's a serious amount of snow coming down (like a foot on the road and more falling) then you aren't getting up the road, with or without chains. The conditions in which chains are useful are quite a narrow part of the spectrum of weather encountered in the Alps.

I've driven up to the resorts in some pretty horrendous conditions, and whilst I've seen the odd car with chains on most people seem to manage without. I've never seen any sort of Policeman checking everyone has chains, but I have seen them closing the road entirely.

Modern ski resorts (especially the bigger ones) invest a lot of money in snow-clearing equipment, not just in-resort but on the roads up the mountain. Every day that a road is closed is a day that they're missing out on hundreds of thousands of Euros in lift pass revenue, so they basically make sure they're clear.