As above who builds the best engines for cars that can be most reliable,best performance,better for high mileage?
Petrol, diesel, lpg,?
Which engines do you think are the best and why?
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It really really isn't that simple.
E.g small chain driven Vauxhall engines are brilliant if you service them because they will do 100k without having to change anything other than perhaps the MAF and spark plugs. On the other hand they are not tolerent to infrequent servicing other engines may require more work in that 100k but be more tolerent to a missed oil change.
Two engines that stand out and both were from the early 90's
PSA XUD (non turbo) seem to be able to do 100,000s without problems
Vauxhall 8V Family 2 engines, providing the cam belts are changed these seem bullet proof.
In fact the Family 2 engine was so reliable GM had to offer it in the Astra G even though it was obselete just to keep fleet buyers happy.
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Vauxhall engines are brilliant if you service them because they will do 100k without having to change anything other than perhaps the MAF and spark plugs.
I do hope you would change the oil and filter Rattle.
Worked on nissan engines good for 450k if looked after with oil changes regular.
Mercs do better again if looked after what else is there ?
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>>Mercs do better again if looked after what else is there ?
Do they? I looked after mine & it hasn't. Of the current mass produced engines one would have to say post-boreliner problem BMW petrol 6-cylinder, Honda VTEC and early Peugeot XUD engines.
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Agreed woodbines. My BMW 6 cylinder is incredibly smooth, reliable, surprisingly economical, and so far is proving to be long lasting. Honda VTEC engines are beautifully made and incredibly reliable considering how high revving they are (I heard that they've not had one failure of the VTEC timing units), and the early Peugeot diesel engines are known for massive mileages.
This is of course on the basis that the above engines are serviced correctly....
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I deduce from this , corax, that we're in complete agreement!
Unfortunately, I wasn't bright enough to take advantage of my own sage opinion - and bought a duffer diesel :/
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Another vote for BMW- brill 6-cylinders, smooth and punchy 4-cylinders, and great diesels. I can't think of a dud in their range.
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My vote (for both diesel or petrol) would be for BMW 6 cylinder engines then Honda 4s , I think that these days you can make a decision to buy a diesel for reasons other than economy e.g. you might prefer the torque of the Honda 2.2 Diesel over the mostly VTEC petrols' revvy nature (or vice versa of course), same goes for BMWs too.
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I can't believe this, I was expecting to be shot down in flames by the BMW knockers! No doubt they'll be along soon. :-)
What diesel did you buy woodbines - not one of the much discussed common rail engines that have occupied so much space in these threads?
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In response corax - a Merc 270cdi. Basically a cut-down previous generation straight-6 320 cdi.
I anticipate big problems (..and already have fuelling system leaks, injector seal issues & rough idel/cold weather running..) when something finally breaks completely - either engine/gearbox/radiator
All this in addition numerous electrical/ancilliary 'glitches' - but I'm getting perilously near to thread hijack, so I'll stop there!
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Another vote for the BMW inline-6 petrol engines!!
Fuel economy is surprisingly good. Low range torque (on dual vanos units, M52TU or later) is fantastic.
There's not that much to go wrong. Maybe the newer turbo assisted units might have more problems?
Valvetronic itself appears to be fairly robust, the vanos seals can go but you can buy reinforced aftermarket replacements for cheaper than BMW supplied replacements.
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Yep dosn't the term oil change usualy mean filer as well :). Its actually a doddle on mine because the filter inside a little case in the engine. Going to start a 6 month oil change routine on my engine.
The Ford Endura Diesel seems very durable but eats cambelts so people get caught out with that.
Modern Toyota engines are not very durable, local taxi drivers have switched to Skoda and Vauxhall (Astra G) because of the valve bore problem.
Ford Endura engines can last a long time because there is cambelt and a very short chain, I've known examples do 200k with a very strict oil change routine, that said Ive also known them to be worn out by 80k.
The FIAT FIRE engine is also very durable, I knew of a MK1 Punto 1.1 which had done 300k on the original engine although it did need a couple of head gaskets in that time.
My uncle had a Sierea which had 420k on the clock it was a 1988 model would that have been a Pinto engine?
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BMW and Honda petrols for me as well - those BMW Twin Turbo petrol and diesel sixes BMW make are works of automotive art.
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Saw my first BMW GT on the road today. Not as striking in the flesh so to speak to my eye anyway as the pics I've seen. Maybe the colour didn't help, it was a sort of bronze-ish gold. Still wouldn't be too upset if Santa brought me one though.
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Nor me HB - 530d does 173g carbon and 44 mpg - That is porbably one of the best diesel motors in the world.....I saw one in the same colour at a dealer.
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I have to say I'm mightily impresses by the twin-turbo 3-litre in my 335d - the performance is just amazing, particularly when tootling along the motorway at 70 while returning 50mpg.
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My uncle had a Sierea which had 420k on the clock it was a 1988 model would that have been a Pinto engine?
The Sierra lasted a while so there were lots of models and several engines used over the years. Smaller engined ones were Pinto, but then that was replaced with the Ford I4 DOHC engine. They also had the CVH engine, and then the Ford Cologne V6 engine. V6 is the best of the lot - they still sound great even after 100,000+ miles, assuming they have been serviced properly during this time. I know a guy with two Sierra 4x4s with the V6 engine, he took me for a quick spin in one of them, lots of miles on it, still very smooth and quiet!
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Vauxhall 8V Family 2 engines providing the cam belts are changed these seem bullet proof. In fact the Family 2 engine was so reliable GM had to offer it in the Astra G even though it was obselete just to keep fleet buyers happy.
This is one of my favourite "daily car" engines, ever. Apart from the stoopid eccentric water pump / cambelt tensioner set-up, it was a doddle to work on, had a near unbelievable tolerance of abuse/skimped servicing, it revved sweetly and smoothly, and in high compression 2.0 130 bhp guise (mk2 Astra GTE / mk3 Cav SRi) had some serious grunt.
It also formed the basis of what was arguably one of the best four cylinder engines of all time - the wonderful, tunable, bulletproof C20XE.
Vauxhall to me have never matched the stuff they were doing in the 80's and early 90's.
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>>Apart from the stoopid eccentric water pump / cambelt tensioner set-up
Funny - I consider it to be a very good piece of design - the water pump then serves two purposes, dispensing with a seperate, expensive, belt tensioner.
There are 2 approaches to dealing with them effectively;
1) Leave the pump in place when doing a cam belt, and simply slide the belt on and off the pulleys
2) Fit a new water pump every time you do the cam belt - the cost of these water pumps is comparable with that of a double eccentric tensioner as fitted to a more conventional system, and you get the opportunity to change the coolant too!
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I can think of at least three good 'uns if you go back a bit:
The B-series engine which started life in the Austin A40 from 1947 and ended with the last MGB.
The 2.0 petrol engine I had in several Renaults from 1980 - did hudge mileages without missing a beat or using a drop of oil.
The Jaguar XK engine - XK 120 onwards.
Currently, another vote for the BMW straight-six - as with the old Rolls adverts, I can put a glass of water on the bonnet of my Y-registered Z3 with the engine running and it will hardly vibrate.
With diesels, the Peugeot / Citroen XUD and the VAG PD 1.9 are durable if unrefined. The CR engine in my Octavia is superb although it's too early to say how these engines will be for durability. I'm old-fashioned enough to believe that oil should be changed at a maximum of 10,000-mile intervals for all engines, but particularly diesels.
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I would add that, coil packs aside, the VAG 1.8T and newer 2.0 TFSI units are an excellent combination of power and economy. Strong engines too, many have been shoehorned into different cars and uprated for more power, and they are still reliable.
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>newer 2.0 TFSI
I would contend that any engine that requires special petrol is far from the best engine.
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everythings pot luck these days
as clint said
are you feeling lucky punk? well are you?
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requires special petrol
Special petrol?
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98 RON quite common on the continent.....
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It means super unleaded for best performance.
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Ahhh! That sucks if it requires it :-(
I dont mind if they say it needs premium grade fuel to unleash all the potential, but its a bit rubbish of them not to support lower grades. What if you can only get 91 ron where you are?!
I think moderns cars / engine management systems should be built to support running on anything from french 91 ron to japanese 101 ron, in the same car, without a remap.
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Far more 98 RON even in rural France than in the UK, never skimp on the fuel you put in your car..
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Far more 98 RON even in rural France than in the UK never skimp on the fuel you put in your car..
I never do, the last tank of fuel I bought cost me £1.06/litre. All the tax in there keeps my engine in fair fettle
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>Far more 98 RON even in rural France than in the UK, never skimp on the fuel you put in your car.. <
Originally, 98 ron was the standard unleaded you got at a French pump. 95 ron came somewhat later.
I'll second your sentiment, PU.
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requires special petrol
Reference to a number of anecdotes of TFSi (not just the 2.0 either) engine failure just outside warranty with burned out pistons, thought to be due to 95RON petrol.
Quite a new engine, so failures within warranty will be kept quiet by the manufacturer I presume.
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Always ran my Golf GTi on Optimax.....
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Its not really special petrol is it. Its what people used to run their engines on before the tepid stuff being used now. (95 RON)
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Auntie Nellie ran her car on `special`petrol around 20 yrs ago. She never got to know if all the carbon had been repelled - cos it stuck the inlet valves to the exhaust valves - then the pistons turfed them out onto the roadside - where they lay gleaming as proof of concept for the next generation of fuels.
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BMW 3.2 litre straight six, 343 hp, red lined at 8500rpm. Still miss it.
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"Which engines do you think are the best"
It does rather depend on what you mean by 'best', although I realise that may have been deliberate!
The most durable car engine would appear to be the old Volvo 1800 OHV unit, as fitted to Irv Gordon's P1800, now at 2.6 million miles and still going. Mind you, I suspect that some American V8's could have matched it, if as well maintained and if only the cars they were fitted to were as well built, or worth keeping!
The sweetest engine I know of was that fitted to the Honda S800 - 4-cyl, 4 carbs, roller bearing crank and happy to 10,000rpm, and once described by LJK Setright as the 'world's best engine'. That was some time ago, though.
The Mazda V6 I currently drive behind must be a contender for one of the smoothest, although I realise that a straight six is technically better balanced. Less compact, though, and a point in the Mazda's favour is that it won't wreck itself if the cambelt breaks, which makes one wonder why that's not universal. I'd like to try the Miller version, though.
Modern electronic fuel management must make a difference to the way engines feel nowadays, but I'm not sure that the basic elements have changed that much. Modern oils help with longevity, although manufacturers seem a bit too keen to compensate by extending the service intervals!
It would be interesting to know how things would have developed without the need for catalysers and tight emissions control.
Edited by J Bonington Jagworth on 17/01/2010 at 13:21
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The Cummins 14ltr is without doubt, the best sounding engine of all time when mated to a vertical stack exhaust, and regularly serviced, will last for over 1 million miles.
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The majority of BMW engines are optimised for 98 RON petrol, running them on 95 hurts fuel economy and performance, that's why it annoys me that the car rags always use premium fuel when testing cars, this is giving BMW an unfair advantage over the likes of Ford and Vauxhall whose cars are optimised for 95 RON.
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As above who builds the best engines for cars that can be most reliable best performance better for high mileage? Petrol diesel lpg ? Which engines do you think are the best and why?
Alfa Romeo V6's, so smooth, free revving combined with razor sharp throttle response, not forgeting the lovely noise
Not particularly economical, but just a delight to drive
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Alfa 3.0 V6 surely? Cars werent all that most of the time, but that engine, it sounds good, looks good and makes a journey an event. I drove an Alfa Spider soft top with the V6 and it was one of the best drives ive ever had.
Id also put a vote in for Subarus flat-four, BMW 2.5 6cyl and the 6.75 used in Rolls/Bentleys over the ages.
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Honda GX, both my mower and wacker plate thus equipped start 2nd or 3rd pull after standing for months and they don't need special petrol
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Honda GX both my mower and wacker plate
So if you cant cut the grass, you beat it into submission?
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Well Jaguar have to be up there - they've only ever developed 4 engines 3 of which were gems - a 75% hit rate.
The XK a cracking engine that stayed in production for eons.
The V12 - The finest engine in the world for over a decade after it was released, revvy, reliable and unbelievably smooth.
AJ-V8, light, smooth, powerful with decent fuel economy - the best V8 when launched - still competitive. Early ones did have teething troubles (cam chain tensioners and problems with bore linings used with high sulphur fuel) however they can rack up enormous mileages trouble free.
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At work we have a diesal generator that kicks in when a power cut occurs. Last week it was serviced the service guy said this is one of the best diesal engines ever made its a perkins.
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Jaguar...
what about the AJ16 - last engine in the XJS and also same (but supercharged) in the legendary XJR.
All jaguar XJ users are telling me its one of the best engines ever, and it s what I chose what I looked out for an XJS last year
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In my bus driving days of old the Leyland 0.680 & Gardner 6LXB were very highly regarded by our fitters.Both totally gutless & useless on hills but went on for ever.
Some examples of the Leyland even were used in DMU trains,im told.
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I had a 1993 Nissan Sunny (N16 DOHC chain cam) engine which did 140k when I sold it.
I never had it serviced in my brief tenure of ownership(sold due to personal reason - nothing wrong with the car). I had no document of servicing the engine from previous owner so I can guess it was poorly serviced most of its life!
As per insurance database, the car is still running...
Definitely I'd call it an excellent engine.
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Honda B-series petrol - 1.6l, 160BHP 8K redline and virtually indestructible - in 1989!!
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Yes, the old pre-QG Nissan engines took some beating for durability.
I know of a few 2l Bluebirds that managed 300K+.
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> In my bus driving days of old the Leyland 0.680 & Gardner 6LXB were very highly regarded by our fitters.Both totally gutless & useless on hills but went on for ever.<
My late father always reckoned the Leyland 0.680 was the all-time great. The hillclimbing ability depended on the diff(s). His Octopus would go anywhere (often hugely overloaded) but top speed was 39mph. The buses and coaches were much faster. I read an article back along about a trip to the Cote d'Azur from the UK with a 1950s Leyland Royal Tiger coach-based racing car transporter with the 0.680. Steady 70mph-plus was easy apparently. I believe it.
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For petrol, I'll go for Honda. My father in law's brother is a taxi driver and he had a Rover with 2 liter Honda engine in it. When he sold the car he had done full meter, over a million and it was still going strong!!!!
Not sure about diesels, I would say BMW or Merc?
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Deutz, Sisu, Scania, Man
etc
Or an 08S Stihl
Oh argh
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Taking the spectrum of motoring history, it would just have to be the Gardner 6LXB engine as a piece of kit absolutely suited to doing its job with the minimum of attention, a measure of abuse and absolutely minimal fuel.
The working life of these engines was sometimes quite staggering.
659.
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Taking the spectrum of motoring history it would just have to be the Gardner 6LXB engine as a piece of kit absolutely suited to doing its job with the minimum of attention a measure of abuse and absolutely minimal fuel. The working life of these engines was sometimes quite staggering.
Sounded good too. I grew up in a city with a huge fleet of Bristol VRs and probably travelled tens of thousands of miles in my childhood and youth with 6LXB power! :-)
I also remember fully laden ones crawling up the town's biggest hill in 1st sometimes. But they worked for years, and I don't ever remember one breaking down.
Edited by DP on 18/01/2010 at 17:29
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Looking at the various threads about under-stressed indestructible engines of the past - it's a shame with the amalgamation of all the vehicle companies that we do not get a choice in this matter any more, also the car reviews industry that was originally to protect and inform the consumer have forced manufactures into a peeing in the wind competition. Certain manufacturers such as Volvo, Opel and Datsun built under-stressed engines that'll go on forever, however on paper these engines wouldn't compete with the new kids on the block, even though in the real world they may have been a better engine in terms of ultimate cost to consumer thanks to the longevity.
Some engines just lasted as an accident of tolerances rather than reputation or design, my Dad had an Austin Princess II 1.7 (O-series), he kept it for about 15 years lugging half a ton of engineering tools all round the country, it went round the clock two and a half times (250,000 miles) and the only oil change it ever had was by nature of topping it up every month or so. It was still on the original gearbox and clutch when my mother crashed it into a car that had pulled out on her. The funny thing is the insurance assessor gave my Dad a good price for it as it had "only" done 50,000 miles! The only fault with the car after all those miles was the leaky hydrogas which my Dad topped up quarterly with a home-made pump.
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DP
Just had to educate myself as to what a Bristol VR was. The old double deckers I used to ride on! I saw one of those with the top chopped off to become a single decker. It looked great. I often wondered why that was done, maybe it had an argument with a low lying bridge, but the mechanicals still had plenty of life in them, so they thought, what the heck, we'll keep it going!
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Ah but the question is "who builds the best engines. None of these cow pat burning cast iron boilers are currently in use.
BMW.
Thats the answer. Diesel and petrol.
well anything with more than 4 cylinders anyway,
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Yes you're right AE, I'm terrible for going off at a tangent.
Clearly you're a man who does not dwell on the past....:-)
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when you have as much of it as me, the dwell angle is not one to take.
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I as just about to say it though RF, er I mean AE beat me to it.
BMW 6 cyl engines are superb these days, the 330d is sooooo efficient and the petrols a great combo of power, refinement and economy.
4cyl, well again BMWs are sooooo efficient though my TDCi is the 4 cyl diesel with least NVH that I have driven / been in. EDIT: The latest Renault 2.0 diesel is also very smooth.
4 cyl petrol, the 1.25 and 1.4 units in the Fiesta are so crisp though Yamaha m/cycle engines are superb, sky high redline, as much as 27k miles between valve clearance checks and they go on for ever.
V8, AMG MBs and Ferraris.
V12, Ferrari.
Edited by cheddar on 18/01/2010 at 22:15
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Indeed, the 320d is hard to beat in terms of fuel efficiency, performance and low taxation class - a real gem. The petrol 2 litre is rather good too not as good though.
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Stuff your bmw 6 cylinder engines when you can have these
:www.bouchillonperformance.com/MPCrateEngines.asp
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40 odd years ago my father bought a 2nd hand 6 cylinder Gardiner to drive a fan to dry barley, cheap & reliable & economical and absolutly a pleasure to listen too.
Its still there in the remains of the cab, tucked away behind the shed
Probably busted with the frost by now
Doh
Blame the brother for that one
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40 odd years ago my father bought a 2nd hand 6 cylinder Gardiner to drive a fan to dry barley cheap & reliable & economical and absolutly a pleasure to listen too.
Thats triggered a memory DD.
At a farm near Daventry the farmer used to use a sucker/blower for loading trucks with wheat and barley..as you know most farmers used the tractor pto to power a 4" blower often blocking up taking normally around 2 hours to load a truck.
This chap used a 14 litre 250 Cummins driving through a David Brown 6 speed gearbox in 5th as it happens..the whole shebang sitting in the ERF cut down chassis, this running a very efficient 6" blower could load 25 tons of wheat in 20 to 30 minutes with blockage unheard of.
As an aside, the best truck engines i've used have always been Cummins, always on top of the job and never give trouble.
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GB
Have you seen this website?
www.dieselbob.co.uk
They have a section on good engines/bad engines and the Cummins was well liked.
Edited by corax on 24/01/2010 at 11:32
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www.dieselbob.co.uk They have a section on good engines/bad engines and the Cummins was well liked.
Thanks Corax i've had a browse and some interesting stuff there, can't find the section you mention though.
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Thanks Corax i've had a browse and some interesting stuff there can't find the section you mention though.
Got it now, thanks.
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...www.bouchillonperformance.com/MPCrateEngines.asp...
Subtle, these Americans, aren't they?
Good to see 1950s engineering is still alive and well.
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BMW aren't the only purveyor of in-line sixes. Nissan and Toyota have been make very smooth and durable ones (without any of the Nickasil bore problems) for years, and they have been very popular with tuners because of their bullet-proof nature. There must have been loads of rusty old Crowns and Laurels on 80's scrapheaps with engines that were barely run-in!
This is a nice example from the Toyota 2000GT (as in You Only Live Twice) which had a twin-cam head designed by Yamaha...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2000gtengine.jpg
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On the subject of six pots, I was reading recently about the Honda RC166 race bike
DOHC 24v air-cooled in-line six cylinder engine
247cc!!
60 bhp @ 18,000 RPM
In 1967!!
www.iom1960.com/photo/honda-works-2/rc166-2.jpg
tinyurl.com/yac2mjs
Wow. Just, wow! I want one.
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