e.g I always put it in neutral at lights, why would I leave it in first?
Good habit to be in , especially if you're there for some time, it saves the clutch release bearing.
The only thing I would say is that if you slow down using gears at higher speeds, your brake lights aren't coming on, and the person behind has no warning of your actions, although usually one would only slow down using the gears at low speeds where its not such an issue.
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Bellboy,
As a former ADI I can tell you that you mis-understand how the teaching of "Brakes to slow, gears to go" is done (at least when taught properly). Any good instructor will teach a pupil to use the gears to control the speed of the car in slippery conditions or on steep descents. What is not encouraged is the use of crash downshifts, where for example somebody doing 30mph shifts down into second and lets the clutch up abruptly in an attempt to retard progress in the same manner as firmly applying the brakes. I have known older drivers torture their transmissions like this in an attempt to "Save the brakes for an emergency".
Unfortunately, I would be the first to admit that there is an alarming percentage of ADI's who interpret everything in it's literal sense and don't seem to have the wit or common sense to take an intelligent and flexible approach to driving techniques, added to scant mechanical knowledge of what is going on among the oily bits under the bonnet. Combine this with the many drivers who stopped attempting to learn anything more after they passed their tests and you have the reason why peoples driving techniques in hazerdous conditions sometimes leave you gasping in amazement.
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this feels like lighting the blue touch paper, but i tend to agree with using the brakes to slow down within reason whilst still believing people should be capable of driving without brakes at all so they can use their judgement!? in bad weather.
Modern braking systems are so powerful and easy and cheap to replace the wearing parts that it makes sense ot let the brakes take the strain.
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GB,
think you are correct in normal circumstances but you may have missed the "with all the snow we have had had?" in OP.
I had a Yaris last week - automatic - and found that using the gearbox (on very snowy/icy lanes in Sussex) which had a 1st and 2nd gear setting was a much safer way of slowing to almost a halt than using the brakes. No slipping and sliding. Was very impressed with the Yaris in the snow (narrow tyres? light weight? lack of power!!?) - much better than the Porsche 997 later in the week!!!
As an aside to main point of this thread - were conditions last week exaggerated by the media? I managed to go (from east Midlands) to Norwich, Sussex, Truro back to Sussex, Kent, across London, and then back to E Midlands without any problems. Must admit that I didn't go down to Truro on Weds when I intended originally because I was told not to - ("conditions too bad" according to guy in Truro). In fact, the lack of traffic was great! Not stuck in any sort of traffic jam all week.
Safe driving
Phil
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PW, no i read the OP proper this time i think (unusual i admit)..;)
I agree with you about people learning to control their cars in all conditions and yes in these conditions good gearbox use helps a lot.
Sometimes it doesn't help though, how many here have had old automatic cars that had excess 'creep' on the transmission, i've had cars where you've had to develop the knack of knocking the car into neutral just before you stopped on ice else gentle application of the brakes would be enough to brake the front wheels but the rear wheels still wanted to turn the brakes not applied hard enough for rear drums maybe.
Some modern RWD's manuals on the wrong tyres would possibly start to lock the rear wheels up decelerating in low gear on ice too, something artic drivers are too aware of and often turn off automatic retarders.
EDIT, sounds to me like you managed ok no doubt helped by a good helping of luck, i know i need my share of it.
Not a bad little box that Yaris for an automated manual.
Edited by gordonbennet on 10/01/2010 at 21:51
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Last one I had like that GB was an automatic Sierra. Pig on snow or ice. It did exactly as you describe, locked the front wheels while sometimes still pushing with the back. Luverly... :-(
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automatic Sierra. Pig on snow or ice.
Hush now Humph, i really liked my ex plod 2 litre Sierra manual.;)
always wanted a 2.8 4x4 but never had the money, didn't want a an XR4i though, like the Capri's nice engine but wouldn't have wanted RWD only on such light cars.
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One of the nicer Sierras I had was a manual 2.0iS. Sort of poor man's XR4. Looked sporty and had the bucket seats etc. without the running costs. Had a 2.9 Granada 4x4 for a while too. Pleasant but fairly pointless with a thirst like a thirsty thing.
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"you managed ok no doubt helped by a good helping of luck,"
Yep! Almost certainly!
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Yep! Almost certainly!
Sorry PW my last post came over badly as if i was suggesting you couldn't manage without luck, apologies for my poor way of putting it.
What i meant was i like you covered a goodly number of miles and luckily managed to not be in the worst place at the wrong time, so i/we had a bit of luck on our side.
I hope that sounds better.;)
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"came over badly as if i was suggesting you couldn't manage without luck,"
Didn't take it that way GB - think I got what you meant! We all need a bit of luck at times! Just glad I wasn't on the A3 on Weds(?) night - which I could have been!
Phil
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In snow and ice, using the engine to brake is not the way to do it. Greater control is maintained with feathered throttle and the use of brakes.
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Robin Reliant
I saw your earlier post about post snow dog-poo (snowy stuff vol3). Really made me laugh. Thanks for that!
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Sorry, I brake as hard or as gently as I consider necessary and then slot it into an appropriate gear for the speed. Hate being in a car with someone who laboriously changes their way all the way from sixth to first, going through each gear with absolutely no reason to.
Icy conditions obviously require a modification of this technique, but remember that it's still possible to end up in a situation with the engine at idle and the wheels still turning but slipping over the ice, which is worse because you have neglibible directional control.
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I was taught to drive in 1972. Most driving instructors by then had realised that brakes that worked were the norm, and that gears to go and brakes to slow was the correct way to teach driving.
changing down through the gears to slow the car down is archaic. Slowing it down that way makes it unstable as you are only braking on two wheels.
You use brakes to slow a car down on a descent for example, then the correct gear to keep it at that speed.
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Any 4 x 4 off road drivers care to comment on out of gear muddy descent? Same thing on snow really wouldn't you say?
Edited by Dox on 10/01/2010 at 23:36
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tell me how the hill descent control works on Range Rovers?
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tell me how the hill descent control works on Range Rovers?
I don't know, but I'd bet I cant mimic the computerized gadgetry in a fiesta on snow
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Any 4 x 4 off road drivers care to comment on out of gear muddy descent? Same thing on snow really wouldn't you say?
No because you should be driving all 4 wheels in this circumstance and using the engine to brake in the appropriate gear (probably the same as you would climb the hill in, 1st or 2nd low) thereby allowing normal small amount of slip to develop on an odd tyre but a moment later that tyre will regrip and another tyre slip slightly and so on as the descent takes place...the brakes alone under these circumstances will be too brutal and all or nothing not taking into account each individual tyres grip.
Once a lock up happens by braking then all steering control will be lost and the descent end in tears as releasing the brakes will allow the vehicle to gain too much speed before getting engine braking under control again, if the speed is too fast then the gear will be too high and inadequate engine braking result...exactly the same if you had tried to climb in too high a gear.
If you were in a 2 wheel drive vehicle on the same descent you'd use a combination of engine and braking and prayer..;)
I've not explained that terribly well, hope it makes some sense.
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I should have added on a muddy descent you have to be careful not be in too low a gear too, otherwise the wheels will turn too slowly should the vehicle start to slide away and you could still lose steering control and end up going down sideways, experience counts..
so they tell me..;)
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On very slippery stuff my preferred method is to slip it into neutral and use the brakes. This means I have complete control over the level of braking.
Using gears to slow can be very dangerous on snow and ice, you get an initial burst of braking which can easily lock the wheels.
On the subject of learning to drive, how many of you were told to be in the correct gear before entering a bend?
There may be a case for using gears where drivers use the brakes as an ON/OFF switch.
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First engage brain, re driving in poor conditions.
Second was it a golfer who said
"the more I practise, the LUCKIER i get"
cheers
M
PS
One actually ENJOYS driving in snow
In the absence of idots who cannot drive, and are therefore worse in snow
This in a 12 year old & therefore disposable FWD
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not to use the gearbox
As more people going automatic way, manual cars will soon be obsolete.
DSG/tiptronic brigade often boast that in future all cars will be equipped with these gearboxes only!
:(
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Information-position-speed-gear-acceleration! (Well..99% of the time) ;)
The System of Car Control consists of 5 features, these being,
* Information - Identify the hazard ahead and check all mirrors to establish your situation
* Position - Where there is benefit, change road position to improve visibility, or to protect your personal space
* Speed - Make necessary changes in speed by use of brakes or deceleration
* Gear - Having now completed all of the above, directly select the gear that will provide the best response
* Acceleration - Apply power to drive the car out of the hazard and into safety
Edited by midlifecrisis on 11/01/2010 at 09:01
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As more people going automatic way manual cars will soon be obsolete.
Heaven forbid!
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