My neighbour has a fairly old Subaru Imprezza. On the first day of the snow (we live at the bottom of a steep hill), I heard him fire it up and it disappeared.
Nothing else could get up! (Until the farmer trundled past in his two hundred year old Land Rover :) )
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4 wheel drive cars dont stop faster than a 2 wheel drive car, tho you do get to the scene of the accident faster.
I have run out of fingers to count the number of cars sliding out of side roads in front of me.
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Good cars Subaru's overall, though for ice you need all weather tyres if not proper winter tyres.
The 4x4's mentioned above are all fitted with summer performance tyres especially the BM's, the Landcruiser will likely have good quality M&S tyres, thats why it goes anywhere though it's progressive power delivery helps a lot.
Put winter tyres on those X3's X5's and summer 40 aspect slicks on the Landcruiser you'd see a different story.
I would imagine this winter and the last one has stemmed a lot of prejudice against winter tyres, especially with those who don't get paid to stop at home.;)
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I would imagine this winter and the last one has stemmed a lot of prejudice against winter tyres especially with those who don't get paid to stop at home.;)
My "normal" tyres havent stopped me going anywhere. I dont see the need to spend money on a spare set of tyres, for a 1 in 30 event.
Think of all the energy spent in making a set of tyres that are a: not needed or b: only used sparingly.
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I ran a mitsubishi shogun and a subaru leone (predeccessor to the legacy) for 2 years in Kenya, including a lot of off road in very slippery mud.
We tried very, very hard to get the subaru stuck in a mud pit (as my wife wanted to practise recovery before she went off on a safari with a friend). We managed to get it stuck in 2wd, but it just kept on going in 4wd - we had to give up in the end. I had upgraded the tyres t decent M+S ones.
If I didn't need the landcruiser for caravanning in the UK i'd run a subaru. (None of the subarus except the tribeca are heavy enough for my caravan)
Edited by Marlot on 09/01/2010 at 19:47
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A colleague has an Impreza. He has only used it once during this cold spell as it's a keeper and he doesn't want to prang it. He was amazed when reversing out of a space that he managed to lose grip and the car 'crabbed'. He was parallel to the road and simply crabbed some more and drove off!
Most of the time this week he has been in the family C1 and it has coped just as well and it has done 55mpg rather than the 25 he gets from the Subaru.
After test driving a Legacy before getting the X type I have thought more than once that if I'd actually bought the Legacy it wouldn't have spent the last week parked in the drive.
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As has been discussed here at length recently, tyres make all the difference.
I run an '04 Legacy that wears a full set of Dunlop SP Winter tyres from Nov to April (I'm in the East of France at about 1,500 ft, so current conditions are not exactly a surprise). Unless you've tried them, it is hard to explain just what a difference they make.
Our house is on a sparsely-trafficked 1 in 5 hill with a 100m dirt drive that is equally steep. On the standard Bridgestones, I'd be lucky to get up this in snow and certainly wouldn't try to get down. The 4wd helps, but on summer tyres there is simply no grip. With the Dunlops, my main worry is bottoming out. The difference is dramatic. Just don't expect miracles on ice.
Just before Xmas, we had one night when the mercury hit minus 18 and a good couple of inches of fresh snow fell over what was already on the road. I was walking (sliding) down the hill with my dogs the next morning and was passed by a Porsche Cayenne (rare sight in these parts) trying to get up. Just past our gates it ground to a halt. He had Marseilles plates (dept 13) and low-profile tyres. Behind him was an ancient Renault 5 towing a trailer full of hunting dogs. Steel wheels and winter tyres. He sailed up and I reckon I could hear the old bloke driving laughing from about half a mile away. ..
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I'm on low profiles on my 04 Legacy. Do you have different size wheels for your winter tyres? What size wheel/tyre combo you have?
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Nsar - I think we have virtually the same cars (04 Legacy SE Estate). I run a set of Dunlop Winter Sports 215 45 R17s on the standard alloys. Yes, in an ideal world I'd have another set of steel wheels and higer profile tyres, but I'm not in the Alps so the "compromise" Winter Sports are more than adequate (they have the snow symbol on them and a very heavy tread, which is good enough for me).
As I recall, a set of steel wheels for the Legacy would have cost a small fortune in France, so I left things as they are. The tyres were bought on the Internet and fitted locally - about 100 Euro a corner, I think. BTW, France has apparently run out of winter tyre stocks as a result of the weather!
I drove on snow once on the standrd Bridgestones and I thought they were awful. The winters are also a significant improvement in cold rainy conditions, but they start to "go off" when the temperature rises, so I'm told.
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Unless you've tried them it is hard to explain just what a difference they make.
The phrase "night and day" often crops up when people are describing the difference.
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Can't decide if it is worth investing in a second set of wheels and winter tyres for the Outback, buy a set of more off-road type tyres for permanent use, or do nothing and just be careful!
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You could just tie a length of bungee rope between your gateposts instead Espada. Should do the trick. Just mind and leave the garage door open in case you shoot back up the drive ! Gotta be the cheapest option......
Lager or bitter ??
;-)
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My 2007 legacy is fitted with Gislaved Nordfrost 5s, I live on " THE HILL " as it is known, with about 100 yards from the front door to the track that takes me to " THE HILL "
We had 15 inches of snow on the 23rd of december, car just plowed through to the track, where our local farmer had plowed the road to the hill, which was not plowed, up and down no problem, later in the week it had turned to ice with a fresh covering of snow, two steep swichbacks to negotiate, in first low, foot off the accelerator and at walking pace like it's on rails.. tyres + car = awsome, and its much nicer to drive than the SWB Shogun I did have.. though that would cope with deeper snow.
But then I do live in the far north where it just about makes sense to own one of these things, dont know if I would bother if I was in the south of England though.
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I've no real idea whether or not my old Subaru Forester Turbo (2000) is any better than other cars or not, except in the 8 years I've owned it it has always gone through mud, snow, ice, greasy roads, everything except real off road stuff, without any difficulties.
No traction control just AWD and a rear LSD and obviously you do all the slippery bits on low revs, you can pull away in 3rd if you want to. Tyres are same as originally supplied Yokohama Geolandars 215-60-16 V which a bit squidgy in the dry but cope with most things quite well.
Re stopping on ice I agree all cars when using the brakes are the same but when, as on ice/snow, I tend to slow down using engine braking when I think (maybe illusionary) that the car feels more balanced having all four wheels being gently retarded rather than just two. I remember in my early days in the early 60's of driving a Minor 1000 on ice when engaging say 2nd gear even with skilful (!) double de-clutching or clutchless gear changes, as soon as you lifted off the 948 cc's worth of compression was enough to lock up the back wheels. (I know I should have left it in 3rd.) My last FWD car, an original 2.0 Laguna not known for excessive power, wasn't very good in the traction department either on ice or just a wet road.
If the snow keeps on I will soon find out as my new Octavia Estate 1.8tsi with a 7 speed DSG has arrived at the dealers after 15 week build. I have heard varying accounts of Octavia's in the snow but mine one above poverty spec and on 15" wheels with 205/60 tyres so hopefully better than the rubber band tyres on higher spec models.
I shall keep the old Foz for a bit longer.....
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I would love a Subaru Legacy estate. I like everything about them, except their thirst. I've noticed that most flat four engines seem to be fairly inefficient when it comes to fuel, my Alfasud was thirsty, and the VW Beetle isn't great. But I suppose being connected to all four wheels permanently doesn't help. And if they changed the flat four for a conventional straight four, they would lose their character and their excellent low centre of gravity.There is the new diesel, buts thats way too expensive at the moment for my budget.
Edited by corax on 10/01/2010 at 12:47
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I like everything about them, except their thirst<<
They're not that thirsty. Let's say they drink 10% more fuel in a year to a similar car. You'd have to be driving a lot of miles for that to make it a deal breaker.
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Humph
Neither - Holts Mild please :-)
Edited by Espada III {P} on 10/01/2010 at 12:49
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I missed one days work last week due to snow...that was because a bmw had blocked the main road in the village, and abandoned lorries littering the Bicester ring road..
All other days great stuff...
the impreza estate (wagon) has a low ratio lever...in effect gives you half gears...
in use it means when the car in front becomes a stationary roundabout on a slight slope and you've had to stop. Stick it in low ratio (half of 1st gear) and drive past with no wheel slip...
and of course helps if its a steep down slope... gives you engine breaking at a lower speed...
The saloon impreza doesn't have low range.....
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the estates been great for family use as well.....you can get to great sledging hills and park next to the Freelanders hahaha.....(carry a spade as well...just in case!!)
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Wheels and tyres. my non turbo gx model came with 15" wheels and I changed them to the WRX standard wheels (17") yep the rolling road radius is the same...fitted with toyo proxes T1-R tyres. (the 15s are fitted with Bridgestones)
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Paul.
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My audi quattro was ok in snow, not good, i put that down to the wide tyres 225/45/17.
Both xtrails on 215 are excellent, perhaps the ground clearance helps, the quattro had the lowered sports suspension, rubbish for british roads, ride way too hard.
If buying winter tyres, look at fitting skinney tyres, if insurance allows
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I end up occasionally in slightly off piste places. And I cannot lavish sufficient praise on my Legacy - running on multipurpose tyres.
As I've said before, nothing in this world compares with sticking winter tyres on a car. The things I took an Imprezza thus fitted up in the Alps you just would not believe.
I did mean to get hold of a set of 16" wheels during the summer - 17" tyres being prohibitively expensive - but never got round to it.
AE>>Think of all the energy spent in making a set of tyres that are a: not needed or b:
>>only used sparingly.
It will about match the wear you don't put on your summer tyres...
And the biggest plus of the Legacy is the low ratio. Crawling in traffic, low ratio makes it so much easier.
Edited by Mapmaker on 12/01/2010 at 16:50
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wheels and tyre costs subaru.
bought my 17" wrx wheels for £120 ebay. 15s are often about £40 for a set of 4.
tyres for 17s cost between 60-120 from blackcircles.com.
and 40 less than that for the 15s.
Paul.
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agree about crawling in traffic. .
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ok ok only 32mpg and grp 14 insurance even on my non-turbo model.
but flip side was its 30% cheaper 2nd hand than a used focus with the same milage.....
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Its all about the tyres.
This morning I watched an A4 Avant 3.0 Quattro be completely defeated by a gentle camber on the road at a snowy junction. It just slid back onto the kerb and into much deeper snow, ending up at a right angle to the road and causing a tailback. Several helpful locals dug it out and pushed it into a parked position. It's low profiles, with the long wavy line type pattern were utterly useless, whereas standard FWD hatches of all flavours managed the road successfully.
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The cars that seem to be having most trouble are ones fitted with low-profile tyres on large diameter 'drug dealer' alloys. I'm assuming that's mainly due to the fashion-statement tread patterns a lot of these low profile tyres have.
But, as I said earlier, the car I've seen having most trouble of all in this snow was a Suzuki X90 that had no grip whatsoever - it was the 2WD version - rear-wheel drive.
Edited by Sofa Spud on 13/01/2010 at 13:07
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As has been said many times - it all seems to be down to the tyres. What I will say though is that when the Impreza starts to go (in snow at low speed) it is a lot more predictable/controllable than Mrs PST's CRV - the lack of brake feel in the latter does make slowing down in the snow more difficult than it should be.
I've no idea where Bridlington is (other than oop t'north) but it seems like their Impreza's can rescue buses!
tinyurl.com/yzkvg2u
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It was the shovel in the Impreza that rescued the bus...
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Yes but it was the fact that Impreza drivers know how to use a shovel properly. If it had been a Renault, the handle of the shovel would have fallen off. If it had been a BMW, the driver would have had a carbon fibre shovel but used it to hit the bus driver over the head....
....only joking....some of my best friends drive BMWs :)
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I bought my "dog carrier" Legacy estate - P reg 1996, 3 years ago. I has since sailed through 3 more MOTs and been totally reliable.
In the recent snows it has proved invaluable, the family C-Max remaining parked up for the duration.
I do so few miles in it that I think after the next MOT I may invest in some winter tyres and leave them on all year to assist with the stopping.
MPZ
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