Well my BMW was never a major problem, I do believe that a lot of the problems are down to tyres.
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Can drivers switch off traction control completely on the current 3 series? Had a 318d as a rental in Italy over the summer, and played with the traction control, but wasn't too sure if did switch off.
Speaking to my Dad today (very spritely 80 year old) who tried to help the driver of a fairly new Golf GTi up the hill they live on. Couldn't switch the traction control off, and car was completely cutting power to the front wheels, so was going nowhere. Followed in quick succesion by another GTi that got stuck in the same place for the same reason. Both had to go back down the hill and try a different route.
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recently seen combinations of fwd and rwd cars stuck in the blizzards that hit Luton last night and before Christmas. Generally I would say poor technique was to blame. I got the Megane est out and my mate got his 206 up the same hill with ease at first light by drivinng carefully. Read also that BMW are brining to UK 4-wd versions of the 3 and 5 series as sold on the continent and not available as RHD varaients for some years.
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Can drivers switch off traction control completely on the current 3 series?
As I understand it you can, the button on my 330d is sited rather peculiarly (imho) next to the central door locking button in the centre of the dash which could (I suppose) lead to the unwary switching it off by mistake. I can testify that should the button be pressed the dash lights up with a number of warnings and driver aids such as cruise control and traction control are disabled.
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Oii! I remember that Top Gear lap with the (2.0) cars and the Mondeo winning. But there was never a an Alfa 156 there!
Are you sure?
Perhaps they couldn't get it started ;-)
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Looks like there was a 156:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q2htEzjx8E
EDIT: assuming that's the episode we are talking about
Edited by Focus {P} on 07/01/2010 at 08:56
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The one I am referring to was a bit more recent, probably 2003/4, track based, the story was that all of the 2ltr saloons represented manufacturers who were involved in F1 at the time, reckon the BMW was probably a 318i 2.0 (as opposed to a 320 which would have been the 2.2 6cyl) and the one I missed before was Peugeot, a 406 I guess.
Edited by cheddar on 07/01/2010 at 09:17
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There was an episode of top gear about electronic aids where JC demonstrated how the traction control enabled an X-type (i think) to go up a slippery slope which it couldn't with TC switched off. Judging by the Golf example above it appears that not all traction controls are the same, then...
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Have had a BMW 3 series - hated it. Most uncomfortable seating I've ever had. Felt like I had to sit sideways to get my feet on the pedals, meaningn by spine was twisted all the time. And the seats were like sitting on a pile of bricks. Boy was I glad to switch back to Saab.
And as for RWD - even my old Escort Mk 2 and my Vauxhall Viva were better in snow than the BMW was.
Over-rated, over-priced in my opinon.
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I'm going to add Audi to the list.
Followed a shiny new TT at about 15mph this morning - the driver clearly had no confidence in it.
I was happy doing 25/30mph in the CC3, and some drivers were doing a little more.
Walking in from the car park, I saw an Audi estate with its rear wheel spinning uselessly on a gradient which would barely show up on a spirit level.
OK, it was a little steeper than that, but I saw no other cars in difficulty at the same place.
I think the Audi was a sporty one, judging by the width of the tyres.
The designers of the German execu-boxes might have to rethink their priorities because there must be a lot of unimpressed owners out there.
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>>Walking in from the car park, I saw an Audi estate with its rear wheel spinning uselessly >>
If its rear wheel was spinning then it must have been a Quattro, i.e. AWD, strange.
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I'm not that hot on Audi models, but I think it was an A6 Allroad.
Maybe the front wheels were spinning as well and I didn't notice. :)
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On my 3 series if you press the T/C button once it puts it into some sort of dynamic mode which relaxes it. Allows the wheels some slip, and its been invaluable this past week. Got up a hill that my mates IS200 ground to a halt on. If you hold the button for 5 secs it switches it off completely, but I haven't been that brave yet.
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Drove my 330d Touring today on both compacted and fresh snow - outside temp reading was -3.5DegC. I cleared my drive a bit but side roads are completely untreated and even major roads are 'tracks' with snow covering the central part of the carriageway.
The 330d was flawless, subjectively better than my FWD A4 B7 was last Feb, don't recall the traction control cutting in much if at all, trick was to use second gear to pull off (mine's a manual) and little more than the idle jets to make reasonable progress. I am impressed, I think having modest 225x17 rubber (albeit runflats) helps, not sure what all the fuss is about ;-)
Edited by idle_chatterer on 07/01/2010 at 12:24
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For BMW drivers who struggle to get up a hill, there's an extra mode in the traction control that's not advertised in the handbook.
Hold in the DSC button for 10 seconds, rather than just turning off traction control when you get to a hill you can't get up.
The icon will blink on the instrument cluster to tell you that the car will no longer cut the throttle on slippery hills, but you still have the benefit of the selective braking, which mimics the idea of a limited slip diff and is really handy to keep active...
You can only turn this mode off by turning the car off and back on again, to be honest i drive everywhere in this mode since i found it. Best bits of traction control without the bad bits!
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It must be a big surprise for folk to see Italians Germans Poles Norwegians to name a few coping admirably in the snow in very ordinary cars.
But with extra ordinary winter tyres :)
In Sweden, even bendy buses (observed en route to airport from Stockholm) run at 110 km/h on snowy road.
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Hold in the DSC button for 10 seconds rather than just turning off traction control when you get to a hill you can't get up.
I just tried this, my initial impression was that the car actually performs better in normal DSC mode (on compacted snow), certainly had the light flashing a lot more in this 'undocumented' mode.
So I read the manual... it implies that on 330i/d and 335i/d models even with the DSC switched off the electronic braking (which it describes as equivalent to an LSD) remains active, no mention of holding the DSC button for 10 seconds though.
Car still a pleasure to drive in today's conditions, a real (pleasant) surprise.
Edited by idle_chatterer on 07/01/2010 at 15:20
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BMW drivers who struggle to get up a hill, there's an extra mode in the traction control >>
www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160710
" ... DTC, which is a sub-program of the DSC system. In DTC (Dynamic Traction Control) mode, the yaw rate sensors are inactive, and the computer will not intervene to correct over and understeer (at least not per se). However, it will still intervene with wheel braking and/or cutting engine power when it detects wheelspin. However, because DTC mode is optimized for driving in heavy snow, ... "
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Well, according to an advert in my daily paper, BMW clearly have no idea how poorly their products perform in slippery conditions.
The banner line across the ad reads, "Joy Ignores the Weatherman".
It strikes me that describing their cars as being able to bring joy to the driving experience DESPITE the weather will have them - sooner, rather than later - explaining their marketing strategy to a coroner.
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A BMW is no more likely to have an accident in the snow than Jags, Mercs, Lexus etc. Its all depends on the driver. Blaming the car is utter carp. The DRIVER made the decision to buy it. The DRIVER made the decision to go out in it. The DRIVER made the decision to drive on ungritted roads. If an accident occurs, thats just what it is, an unforeseen circumstance.
I'd still much rather have mine all year round and struggle for a few icy days than have some piece of boring tat thats gets the job done 365 days a year in purgatory.
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some piece of boring tat thats gets the job done 365 days a year in purgatory.
Heh heh... Tell'em, Preacher!
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Inspired Lud ! If you read that post back in an Ian Paisleyesque roar it really works !
;-)
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Ah yes, Bimmer but Jaguar, Lexus and Mercedes-Benz are not taking out half-page adverts in national newspapers misleadingly extolling the virtues of their vehicles in poor weather.
Oh, and I really would prefer to be able to go about my business in my boring tat without worrying about BMW drivers, who are "struggling" in their poorly designed, wayward performance cars, ruining my whole day.
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My wife who is happily driving her cherished BMW in deep snow will happily give you some driving lessons, when the roads are better of course.
You have to know your limitations
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You have to know your limitations
"A man has to know his limitations" as quoted from Clint Eastwood in Magnum Force.
Brilliant!
This thread has opened up a thin metal container of wriggly objects, as Lud would say.
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I planned to order my first BMW in about 8 weeks time (320ED). I was really looking forward to it until I heard/read all the reports about how awful they are in snow. Are these reports exagerated or are BMW a real pain in the snow. I have heard of people simply leaving them at home & using other cars instead
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I would like to point out that in Germany as in lots of other EU countries it is mandatory to have suitable tyres ALL YEAR ROUND, in winter they HAVE TO change to winter tyres and guess what, they manage fine.
Looking at the UK news Im wondering why we are making such a fuss over some snow. isnt it winter yet?
The last time we had snow, guess what, we had more chaos on the roads.
Winter tyres are not expensive as they will last a long time, you only need them in poor conditions. They are NOT for high speed motorway runs.
I wonder if the UK insurance companies will cotton on to the fact that our cars do not have the right tyres for the conditions, only a thought....
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I'm not getting involved....
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INrefernce to rear wheels spinning, I thought all Audi cars are FWD, after all they are VW Golf Passat etc platforms/running gear
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Audis are either FWD or 4WD.
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