I have never owned a car with front drum brakes, and I have been drving for 36 years.
I have had temporary care of or driven a few, but never owned one.
|
I had a 1984 or '85 Ford Sierra 1.6L which I think had drums all round.
Stand to be corrected on that, but I don't recall having to clean brake dust from the front wheels.
|
Think you'll find it had front disks.
|
Yeah, probably.
Must have been the steel wheels and plastic trims which didn't collect the dust like alloys these days do.
|
|
|
A Marina was my last, I believe.
|
|
|
|
All Sierra were discs! As were all Classics(first family saloon with disc as standard),Cortinas from 1964,Consul,Zephyr,Zodiac from 1961-facelift Mk.2 from 2 years earlier had them as an option,Mk. 2 Cortina and some Mk.2 Escort had them-some servo'ed,some not.All following models including the Fiesta had them as standard.
|
|
|
|
|
My '71 Mustang had unservoed drums all round with a 5.7 V8 under the bonnet, that made high speed stops interesting.
|
Crikey, GB - that must have been scary!
The ones on the Viva were also unservoed and were dire - forever juddering and/or pulling to one side.
|
1970 HC Viva. Nostalgia.......my first ever car. Had it two years. Would be interesting to drive it now to compare with what we are used to these days.
I don't remember it being unduly awful in the braking department, but it's 30 years ago and I think in comparison with anything modern, it would've been a bit crude
|
|
|
Drum brakes are in less need of a servo due to the 'self servo' effect of 'leading shoes'.
Now, a car equipped with disc brakes and no servo can be interesting, especially if it's got some go and heavy, like my old '60s Vitesse!
|
My sister had an early-90's (?) VW Polo which had unservoed front disks - worryingly poor at times!
Some Viva models did have front disks, BTW....
|
|
|
Now a car equipped with disc brakes and no servo can be interesting especially if
.....as I often did, come back from a long holiday having driven a servo assisted car and leap into my long serving 1600E and then have a mild panic when stroking the brakes approaching a T junction ( on a bus route) at the the end of my road.
I never did fit an add on servo unit but nearly had to fit new pants :-{
|
|
|
Not at all, my Exige Mk1 has disks all round and no servo. Nicest brakes you could find. The reason I did not even take out a MK2 for atest drive was that they have ABS and servos, hence they could not have the nice direct fell that the Mk1s had.
The Elise I had before had the MMC disks, even nicer inthe dry but in the wet you really had to lean on them.
|
|
|
|
Crikey GB - that must have been scary!
Truth be told the huge drums were perfectly adequate up to about 90 or above when a full power stop resulted in enough judder to shake your fillings out.
The stopping power at normal speeds was as good as any car of the day, it was only overspeed overheating that caused any problem...i daresay aftermarket vented drums were available which might have helped.
I liked the HC Viva and one of those holds special memories for me, incidentally an uncle of mine filled the sills and every orifice of his with a huge drum of grease, it lasted donkeys years but was horrible to do anything to with the mess.
|
|
Drums were perfectly adequate for stopping large,powerful cars-ONCE-they cool more slowly than discs.
|
My first car was a 1976 Mini 850 which had drums all round. They had one good stop in them, and then you were on your own for the next 3-4 minutes while they cooled.
Apart from their improved performance, discs do away with all those horrid springs, adjusters and levers which you had to assemble, disassemble and reassemble a million times when you did any brake work, in order to get the things to work properly. And I never owned a car with drums anywhere on which the self adjusters did as they were supposed to.
Edited by DP on 31/12/2009 at 12:13
|
i once owned a very big lorry with drums all round and so long as they were set up correctly which i might add isnt so difficult they were brilliant,certainly better than the new ford cargo that replaced it with discs all round that never worked properly or the larger mercedes trucks that were forever splitting their discs
viva hc the most vile handbrake setup i ever recall
last car with drums? cant remember, probably rattles dads lada or a mk1 escort 1100 or something as bad
|
DP next time you work on drum brakes treat it to a full spring kit as well,its amazing what a difference it will make, weirdly many people use the springs and retainers the car came with and if you think about it then that cant be right.
A drum set setup properly will give thousands of trouble free miles and reward with a good solid pedal that you can feel and be confident with,compare that to a new car where you can push the pedal to the floor as its a design feature and able to pass an mot--------
bonkers
|
"A drum set setup properly will give thousands of trouble free miles and reward with a good solid pedal that you can feel and be confident with,compare that to a new car where you can push the pedal to the floor as its a design feature"
Not sure whether that has any relevance to drums versus disks, bb.
As you know, pad/disk running clearances are very small - only formed from the 'relaxation' of the rubber seals. Once this clearance is taken up, further piston movement is very small - unless the pads and/or disk metal is being compressed. A 'soggy' pedal can only result from deficiencies upstream from the braking element.
|
Mini produced to c 1985? had front drums. As did Fiesta Mark1 iirc.
As did Viva Mark 1.
Marinas in lower 1300cc versions had optional disks.
Drums are horrible down steep hills. Brake fade is no fun. the lack of stopping power, the smell of burning linings and the smoke can be terrifying. And of course the more you try to brake the worse it gets..
I have never had fade with disks.. largely because the cars I drive are not fast enough!
And after two to three times of brake fade, you needed to adjust the shoes as they wore down .. red hot linings do not last...
|
The last drum braked cars in the family, were my late dad's Austin A60, and aunties Minor 1000. I have not worked on front drums,(apart from series Landy's,) since 1983 on the Mini.
Marina's were all disc braked at the front after 1972, "K" plates, never seen a "L" with drums.
Early Viva was disc braked at the front, if the first owner specified the "90" pack, with slightly more engine power etc.
|
|
I badly overcooked the drum brakes on my Wolseley Hornet ( OK so it wasn't cool but it was my first car ! ) on a long descent somewhere on the way from Edinburgh to Galashiels. Did you know that a Hornet on Colway crossply remoulds can take a 90 degree bend at 60 mph ? Well it did, just, but it was my first real lesson in holding a four wheel drift while concurrently trying not to lose all bowel control !
|
fail to see how you can overcook brakes unless you are staying on them too long in which case its driver error rather than brake error
what happened to using the lower gears to hold the vehicle back
|
|
do 3 wheelers have a drum up front?
|
>>I have never had fade with disks.. largely because the cars I drive are not fast enough!>>
My Dolomite Sprint suffered brake fade on occasions, the unvented discs and drums were not up to the performance.
|
the unvented discs and drums were not up to the performance.
Same for me with a Rover SD1 3500 auto. Driving through a string of busy roundabouts was scary when you were almost going into the back of the car in front with your foot hard on the brake pedal amid a burning acrid smell! The front discs were way too small.
|
! Thefront discs were way too small.
That was probably similar to the 827, after several stops from high speed the front discs would be warped and need replacing, though braking effort never suffered too much as i recall, i fitted several sets and in the printed SH old bill had fitted many sets too when the car had been a driving school motor.
I always wondered if the Honda version had the same brake set up...to be fair in normal driving they were fine, but the car lent itself to relaxed high speed cruising too easily.
|
The Jowett, of course, has drums all round. About 9 inch with twin leading shoes at the front.
Wonderful brakes...two cylinders, two shoes and two springs. Big snail cam adjusters with sensible heads for a big spanner. Regularly pull 3 times the effort of a disc braked car on the rollers.
Got a massive overheat of brakes on a LWB Safari Landie down the hill from the Woodhead into Holmfirth. Handbrake on transmission so no good.......mind you , I was towing a trailer with a RR Phantom on it to Sotheby's auction at Nostell Priory.
Frightening, but I stopped half way down for half an hour.to cool them.
Ted
|
|
Oh it was most definitely driver error BB ! In mitigation I was only 17 at the time and even dafter than I am now !
|
'72 'J'-reg
Sorry to be picky, but I think J reg was August 70 to July 71 :))
And those Viva HCs were ugly and extremely basic in the 'base' version. SWMBO and I borrowed her dad's car in 1979 to go to wedding. She drove back (I was too well refreshed!) into a low/setting sun from Nottingham to Sutton Coldfield and the passenger side had no sunvisor!!! Can you believe it? I had a splitting headache by the time we got back.
|
Sorry Pat, my mistake - it was a 'K'-reg.
I wouldn't call it that ugly in comparison to its peers, but you're right about the level of - er - equipment. It had vinyl seats, but they had some nice furry covers from Asda :-)
Simple to work on, of course, most jobs being acheived with three spanners and two screwdrivers.
I did eventually fit the 'Magnum 2300' brakes from a scrappie - nearly put my sis through the windscreen when she tried them out!
|
" I had a splitting headache by the time we got back."
That's usually the wife's excuse!!
|
Who remembers the stickers seen on the back of cars stating 'discs', and signs on the back of trucks warning of 'air brakes'.
|
Who remembers the stickers seen on the back of cars stating 'discs' and signs on the back of trucks warning of 'air brakes'.
More than a sticker.
tinyurl.com/ybem325
(See the photo near the bottom)
This was the first I recall seeing.
The small round chrome item in the middle of the bumper was a standard fitting that had a triangle and disc brakes embossed on it.
|
|
Same thing with ABS and Catalysers when they first came out - Katalyser on the back of VWs
|
I always found those Ladas amusing they would boldly put a catalyst badge on the boot of the Riva. The problem is while every other twit was using injection systems with cats Lada stuck with the carb. Most post 93 Rivas were scrapped by the time they got to 4-5 years old because replacement cat cost more than a car and of course using carbs they always ran too rich which burnt the cats out quicker.
Other badges common at this time was i and 16v. My car is so tasteless it even has the engine size next to the 16v badge. I think it was Ford who first stopped putting the engine size on their cars in order to put thieves off.
|
Volvo used to advertise the presence of a Lambda sensor (Lambda Sond) on the radiator grilles of their early catalysed cars. I always wondered who they could possibly have thought cared?
|
How many years since the last car came with "Automatic" proudly displayed on the back?
|
|
Do Mercedes and BMW still charge extra for plain(unbadged) bootlids/rear panels?Of course there were people who did the opposite-a big engine badge on their bottom range modeL!
|
Oh, dear.
I remember red triangles which warned of four wheel brakes!
|
Oh dear. I remember red triangles which warned of four wheel brakes!
and the chap running in front with the red flag?
|
Well adjusted rod operated drum brakes all round were very effective...IF you had been doing regular squats with 200kgs to build up your thigh muscles.
All you softies who learned to drive with power servoed discs.
Real men (and wimmin) were made of sterner stuff.
(I have to go now, my hernia is hurting)
Edited by madf on 01/01/2010 at 13:31
|
I wonder if there were less rear-enders in the days when brakes were not as good as they are now? I often think these "stop on a sixpence" systems encourage tailgating.
|
Well adusted, properly maintained brakes were usually good enough to lock the wheels - it's the ability to use them that's improved. Less effort, much grippier tyres, no fade to speak of, and not prone to locking up and skidding thanks to ABS.
I think they do inspire too much confidence. An emergency stop in a typical pre-80s car required real control, as I was reminded when I made one in the old Land Rover a few weeks ago - locked the back wheels briefly and started going sideways. No wonder they included it in the driving test. Not sure if they still do?
|
Oh dear. I remember red triangles which warned of four wheel brakes!
Oh dear as well....I've still got one in the workshop
Ted
Just remembered...I've also got a pair of those sports wing mirrors, you know the ones, like a rocket nose cone. Brand new, boxed and in chrome finish.....must dig 'em out and put them on Fleabay.
Edited by 1400ted on 01/01/2010 at 14:31
|
look good on a mini cooper
|
Might they not look good on Rattle's Corsa as door mirrors?
:o+
|
Trouble is, all cars now have door mirrors....I'd rather they were on a nice Spitfire or MGB.
In keeping with their period.
Ted
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
