This has been touched on a few days ago, with regard to were winter tyres required. Having discussed a colleague's trials and tribulations over the few days with his RWD Jaguar = couldn't move on and ice or snow; He has fitted winter tyres at huge expense but reckons they are the answer. I checked the regulations and found the following on the AA site.
"All motorists have the obligation to adapt their vehicles to winter weather conditions. This includes but is not limited to winter tyres and anti-freeze fluid for the washer system. Extreme weather may additionally require snow chains.
The law does not specify which type of tyre is 'appropriate' the general opinion is that any type of tyre except summer tyres is appropriate, including all-year tyres.
Winter tyres must bear the mark M&S or display the snowflake on the side wall.
Motorists, whose car is equipped with summer tyres while there is snow and ice, may not take the car on the road. Motorists in violation face fines of ?20. If they actually obstruct traffic, the fine is ?40."
I am not sure how many people realise the winter tyres are not just a good idea but a legal obligation?
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Interesting- my neighbour who has a 2.0 diesel Mondeo was complaining yesterday that it was almost undriveable in snow, no traction at all to get going on the slightest incline in the slush and ice. Why is this, when many cars including our family Panda with no electronic aids at all have had no trouble, in fact it seems as agile as a mountain goat in these conditions on standard tyres?
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Tyre width, profile and chunky tread pattern. A narrow tyre to cut through the snow and slush rather than super wide low profiles.
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I suspect that it's your neighbour that's the issue, I have no problems at all in my mondeo.
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Yes, he does lack finesse, even in normal conditions. it is on 18 inch alloys, super-wide though.
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As there is no legal requirement to have winter tyres in the UK for insurance purposes (unlike I beleive in Germany / Switzerland where you can have non-winter tyres, but if you have a crash you are not insured and are therefore legally responsible personally - I believe this is the case anyway...), I am wondering if when I drive to Germany from the UK in my UK car with standard non-winter tyres if I am in the same boat if I had an accident, or whether my insurance covers me against that particular situation against someone claiming against me?
I only ask the question having had the traditional hard time trying to get anywhere on ice in my BMW 5 series. I have just bought some Autosocks (as an alternative to chains) should I get stuck in very bad weather (happened before in my bosses V70 but the front wheel drive got us through - just), so am concious of the issue and am prepared, but I wonder what the cross border rules / regulations are. Anyone shed any light on this?
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Taken from the AA website:
All motorists have the obligation to adapt their vehicles to winter weather conditions. This includes but is not limited to winter tyres and anti-freeze fluid for the washer system. Extreme weather may additionally require snow chains.
The law does not specify which type of tyre is 'appropriate' the general opinion is that any type of tyre except summer tyres is appropriate, including all-year tyres.
Winter tyres must bear the mark M&S or display the snowflake on the side wall.
Motorists, whose car is equipped with summer tyres while there is snow and ice, may not take the car on the road. Motorists in violation face fines of ?20. If they actually obstruct traffic, the fine is ?40.
www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/touring_tips/germany...f
Some places do not consider autosocks to be a suitable alternative to chains.
Edited by gmac on 04/01/2010 at 14:26
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There is an excellent website, www.drive2ski.com/ , that will tell you all the relevent road laws in each European country regarding winter tyres.
Apart from the UK, the rest of Europe has really embraced 'cold weather' tyres as they make a huge difference. The site also has info and videos on how much of a difference fitting winter tyres can have on grip and safety. You can also get discount cold weather/winter tyres through the site.
Winter tyres are generally not mandatory throughout Europe, but most countries (apart from UK) have a back door law saying "you have to have the appropriate tyres for the conditions" and you can get heavy fines for not having winter tyres, and in some cases invalidate your insurance.
My advice would be to get a set of M+S tyres with a snowflake symbol on the side wall. Most M+S tyres in the UK don't have this snowflake logo, but it is what the police in Austria/Germany/Switzerland/France look for when determining if a tyre is 'appropriate'. You can keep these tyres on all year round in the UK as well.
Remember it is mandatory in Europe (in Alpine regions) to carry a set of chains in the car. Snow socks are good but not yet recognized by some police forces as a suitable replacement for chains. The reality is, is that if you have a good set of winter tyres you won't need the chains!
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Good point re the snowflake symbol, Parf64. AIUI, M&S alone, refers to the tread pattern. The tyre compound is probably just the summer type. Could easily be sold the wrong sort if not aware.
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The tyre compound is probably just the summer type. ............
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NO, the compound is the main difference. "Normal" tyres have a compound that looses its elasticity below about 4 deg. C. Winter tyres are made of a compound that retains its elasticity at low temperatures, (but will wear-out faster if driven in summer conditions).
Normal tyres actually wear-out faster in cold temperatures, as the surface tends to tear away instead of flexing.
I posted a message about German winter tyre laws some years ago and someone replied that I was talking out of my ass!!!
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There is, strictly speaking, no legal obligation to fit winter tyres in Germany in winter. As mentioned above, you have to show that your car is suitable for the conditions. Here in Munich it is presently -8C with ice and snow and you probably wouldn't get far without winter tyres. You would certainly have a lot of explaining to do to the police if they catch you trying, and to your insurance company should you have an accident. I fit winter tyres from mid November to end of March.
In Austria, winter tyres are mandatory from November to April. The police there will simply stop you continuing with your journey if they catch you with summer tyres and either expect you to wait around a couple of months for the summer thaw, or call one of the emergency tyre fitting services who will charge you around 5 times the normal rate to replace your tyres.
In all the alpine regions of Germany, Austria and Switzerland there is the additional requirement for snow chains after heavy snow fall. The affected routes are anounced on the radio traffic reports, listed in hotel receptions and updated on various internet sites and the police check cars travelling these routes. You still see tourists slivering around at 10km/h on unsuitable tyres when there is several feet of snow either side of the road, and it's very annoying to be stuck behind one of them, but the problem is not as bad as it was a few years ago.
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I have lived in both Germany and Norway and in both it is necessary to use winter/snow tyres, and yes they do make a big DIFFERENCE.
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I read recently that M&S tyres are not necessarily made of the winter compound. Not unless they have the snowflake symbol. I realise that winter tyres per se are of a different compound......
This is not the site that I remember, but it's quite clear M&S by itself is not enough. The input appears to be by Nokian. www.snowtyres.com.au/severe-service-emblem
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I read recently that M&S tyres are not necessarily made of the winter compound.
That is probably dictated by the market where you are buying.
I don't think it's possible to buy M+S winter tyres in Germany without the snowflake but in the UK the tyre may be aimed more at mud than snow in which case a different compound would be useful.
Edited by gmac on 04/01/2010 at 19:36
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Winter tyres are region specific as Germany needs different tyres to scandinavia for example. This is a mixture of tread pattern and compound, although scandinavian tyres are usually studded as well.
As for legality in Germany, there is no set date´for the change, but if the temperature drops below 10 degC then winter tyres are "prefered". I changed mine over in November, but many people left it until later. I can confirm they make a huge difference, especially as we have 30cm of snow at the moment and they only clear major roads and hardly use any salt.
Joe
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Many thanks to all for the clarifications.
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I wonder whether the vast expense for the Jag's tyres was because the same profile was used? I did this once for a Volvo 850. I got winter tyres to fit the alloys which were 205/55 15's. They were indeed very expensive, much more so than my normal tyres, but they did make a difference. The following year I saw the light and bought narrow steel rims and matching rubber for less than the price of the larger tyres. I have done the same with a Touran, the two advantages being I can change them myself when I want to and I can use chains on the narrower wheels while that is not possible with the fatter alloys. So the message for winter tyres is get steel rims too if you have alloys.
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I am not sure how many people realise the winter tyres are not just a good idea but a legal obligation?
To clarify, this refers to law in Germany only?
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