You'll also get a better PX deal on the Aygo against another Toyota and Toyota dealers are generally better than Fiat.
Stay away from the Aygo. Thin flimsy doors, water leak problems (read HJ CBC page about it). Far from Toyota's best efforts. Even the Yaris isn't up to Toyota's high level of quality and reliability. And you'll find the boot space in both Aygo and Yaris is laughable compared to other small cars.
|
Retgwte:
Had previously considered going through the unnecessarily lengthy and detailed registration process but have done so now and will read.
JCov:
See explanation to WorkshopTech. Re second response, yes, wouldn?t try another Aygo. 3 cylinder is thrummy and sounds good when revved, but doesn?t have a rev counter so I?ve no idea when you?re supposed to stop.... When you really make it sing, it seems to produce a mild burning smell which I?m not sure is good. The chunky steering wheel on the Platinum we test drove was good though! And you?re right ? both cars are light, but some of it feels just a little bit too light....
WorkshopTech:
First up, live in Scotland, so tons of salt on the roads = corrosion ++++. A friendly Polish Trucker took the side out of it on a roundabout a year or two back so it?s been repaired. That side is rusting at the sills, but there?s other rust on other doors as well. The alloys are also flaking a bit. All surface rust so far as I can see though. Also acquired some dings on the M6 which to this day I have no explanation for ? almost like a couple of air rifle pellet dents or something. They were fine for a bit but showing signs of rusting as well now. I live about 9 miles from the sea over the back of a hill so it?s not likely to be salt from the sea, but yes, fresh salt from the roads non stop in the winter. It does get washed as often as I can though (but no more than once a week) The engine runs well, and the mods sound good but insurance would go up (wife is under 25 as well) and it?s already high mileage and it?s then non standard spec for selling on. Shutters go up for me on non standard cars to be honest....sorry! I?ve noticed the mpg dropping a little recently. Does the mpg tend to go down as the car gets older? The odd little oil top-up has been required as well (talking once in months here) and it?s producing some grey smoke on hard acceleration, but I guess that?s normal for an older diesel? (it?s definitely not blue and not constant) It would have to be the 100HP not the MultiJet otherwise we might as well just buy the Bora. Tall, narrow, coupled with relatively poor NCAP performance is still niggling in the back of my mind as it?s my wife who?s likely to drive it most....and I?d want to make sure she got out in one piece, but compact is good ? somehow seems to add to the fun factor. Saves you having to lean so far forward to have a conversation from the back seat as well.
Avant:
Build location seems to make a big difference to cars right enough. Looked at the Yaris but not keen on the digital centrally mounted dash. Wife used to drive a Yaris and got on fine with that but to be honest they?re not quite the fun car the Panda is or the quality item the Bora is either. The new T-Sport or whatever it is, is better looking, but only in a limited sense. Road Tax is a sore point in the 100HP though.....and a sore point in general, as our roads here are among the worst ranking in Britain for potholes (Horror stories of colleagues who wrecked multiple alloys and burst multiple tyres on potholes. One gent even wrote his car off on one) I guess the frost doesn?t help, but why can?t they just dig the road up and fix it properly instead of spraying some tar and throwing stone chips in the direction of the hole....sigh...I?m sure they all do their best... Re Mazda vs Yaris, I know which dashboard I?d rather look at....
Any other Mazda/Bora thoughts anyone?
|
I'll give you my thoughts, as have 2 Pandas and Octavia 1.9 tdi in the family. The Pandas have far exceeded my expectations, 50 mpg (both petrols), absolute hoot to drive, go everywhere with a smile on your face. In fact, I haven't had so much fun since I sold my Mini 1275GT in 1982!!. They're built in Poland on the same lines as the new Ford Ka - which is really a Panda underneath the skin. Handling is fine if you're used to FWD, understeer at the limit and not a huge amount of grip, though perfectly adequate at normal road speeds. The best thing is the ride/handling compromise, it's set up quite soft, so rolls a bit but the ride over potholes etc is far better than average for a small car. The petrol units are incredibly willing to rev and the car feels far faster than it really is, adding to the fun factor. We can get a weeks shop in the boot, the rear seats slide forward and it will take 4 adults OK. I can't really fault the car for the price. OK it hasn't got the refinement of something like a Bora but it's quieter at speed than my Focus was. The 100 will be pretty quick but I believe rides pretty firmly and rolls less, I believe mpg is in the 40s.
Cheers.B
|
bazza
I agree with most of what you say about the Panda, but I have to say I'm not keen on driving them at speed or in traffic. The handling is pretty crap to be honest, with shed load of understeer and some of them come with narrow Continental 'eco' tyres which don't give much grip at all. I've firghtened myself a couple of times and I'm no boy racer in fact I'm a bit of a snail.
|
Hi WT
Yes, the grip in the wet is not brilliant, but it's still quite controllable with progressive lift off understeer. In the dry, there's plenty of grip. I guess having learnt to drive and owned several hot Minis, I don't particularly have a problem with it! The tyres are narrow and I think it's largely down to that, I imagine the nose-heavier Multijet might be more of a handful and the 100 with stiffened suspension, wider rubber etc would be a lot better. Not quite sure what you mean about driving in traffic? The only thing I've found is a bit of jerking off the throttle in 2nd gear, as if the fuelling isn't perfect - although many petrol FI cars are similar.
By the way, enjoy your posts on here generally, hugely informative thanks.
|
Hi Bazza
I'm sort of in and out of cars all day (test drives with owners to listen for noises, running to factors for parts etc., test run after service or taking a car for 4-W-alignment, and so it goes). Whenever drive a Panda it just feels cramped (I'm 6 foot 4 inches) and I feel vulnerable in traffic, on local bumpy rural roads they bob about a lot and rock from side to side and you have to be carefull not to go into a corner too fast otherwise you can get a scare, must be one of the most understeering cars? You don't mean 'lift off understeer' do you, there is lift off oversteer, but not many cars give you lift off understeer.
I think if I had a Panda the first thing I'd do is research some wider wheels with wider rubber than standard. I must say I feel much better about jumping into something like a Polo or Swift than a Panda, although I agree they are not badly made little cars and we haven't seen too many problems with them (faulty PAS units and premature clutch fail faults spring to mind, and the electric tail latches play up, but thats about it).
|
...You don't mean 'lift off understeer' do you, there is lift off oversteer, but not many cars give you lift off understeer. ...
Ah yes, I mean it in the context of the car tightening its line when you lift off on the throttle when it is understeering.
Being 6 foot 4 I can understand you being a little cramped in a Panda:-)
It's a second car for us, so no real need to beef up the handling! I don't drive like that much!
Good to hear you're not having many in with problems, I've heard of the PAS motor failure and some clutch judder etc, but the list seems quite small compared with some cars I hear about on here! Out of interest, what would be your small car choice?
B
|
.Out of interest what would be your small car choice? B
Personally, for a small car I like the 9N1 Polo/Fabia/Ibiza. The Ibiza with either the BBY engine (1.416v) or the 1.9PD. Depends what you want.
They drive OK (there is better, I admit) but they are easy to fix. they are not the most reliable small cars, but they have a limited listed of 'stock faults' that are easy for me to fix and I can get the parts cheaply from ECP or TPS. Plus I use VCDS at work and its one of the best diagnostic systems avaialbe for any car.
In fact a Mk 4 Ibiza 1.9PD with a remap, a few suspension mods etc would make a damn fine and rapid little car with good economy, and without the cost and image of a Fabia VRS. We also drag some of these in after accidents and they stand up pretty well in a crash.
Truthfully there are some good an reliable little cars out there, but some are awfully complex and I don't fancy an 'economy car' where a head gasket going can cost over £1200 !!
|
|
|
|
They're built in Poland on the same lines as the new Ford Ka - which is really a Panda underneath the skin.
Uh, new Ka is a Fiat 500 underneath, not a Panda.
|
Uh new Ka is a Fiat 500 underneath not a Panda.
Hmm, well from my perspective (standing under a ramp looking up) a 500 and a Panda look a lot alike! Although 500 costs some crazy amount extra?
|
...a 500 and a Panda look a lot alike!
Maybe, but I suspect they are very different underneath? Sorry, I really don't know. I pay the most attention to Fords (perhaps because I own one :P).
|
>> ...a 500 and a >> Panda look a lot alike! Maybe but I suspect they are very different underneath?
What I was trying to say is that they look very similar underneath. In fact apart from the track of the 500 being a few cm wider they look just the same underneath, its the top bit that is different.
Not a great fan of the 500 to be honest, I would have a Panda 100HP over a 500 anyday. Cant believe how much those 500s costs, they are there to tempt the girlies with too much money out of their Minis.
|
.....I don't fancy an 'economy car' where a head gasket going can cost over £1200 !!.......
You're joking! What car is that? Hopefully not a 1.2 Panda!
|
.....I don't fancy an 'economy car' where a head gasket going can cost over £1200 !!....... You're joking! What car is that? Hopefully not a 1.2 Panda!
No not a Panda, but more or less any of your little alloy-engine, high-revving with a turbo and a coolant capacity of about 2 pints. HG goes and 'bang' a £1200 at the main dealer.
|
Baz
Thanks for that. Sounds like a fun car the Panda. Don?t mind understeer ? you tended to get it in the Fiesta on wet roads at 80...again possibly down to narrow tyres. Great in snow though. Don?t like roll though ? Fabia has more than enough of that for my liking. Wansn?t mad keen on quite such a harsh ride as the 100HP though. Apparently you can get different springs for them. Anyone tried this? I like this concept of ?feels faster than it really is?. Wouldn?t take too kindly to 40s mpg after the Fabia. Jerking might not be too much of a problem. Try buying a smallish car with a biggish engine (Fabia) Jerks happen....
Workshop
Roughly what percentage of Pandas would you get in for faults rather than regular servicing? What?s the most common fault? Is the boot a big/regular job? Expensive? Mods didn?t really cross my mind until I came on here. I would be tempted to try it if I wasn?t scared of the rust... In addition, a standard Fabia isn?t quite the same to look at as the 100HP! 500 to me is in the same (out of range) league as the ?new? Mini and the ?new? Beetle. As someone once pointed out, they?ve departed completely from their original purpose i.e. low cost motoring to the masses. Posh and a status symbol now if you ask me. Wouldn?t say no to a JCW Mini though if someone was to give me one! Fully agree regarding Panda over 500.
Still not much on the Mazda or Bora... anyone?
|
|
|
|
