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01 1.6 headgasket changed, but still have problems - mousie
Hi;
I really hope someone out there with a bit more car knowledge than myself can help me here. Don't get me wrong, I can just about change a tyre, know where the water, oil petrol etc goes, but that's about my knowledge and I think my garage is messing me about.

I'll try and keep this short, but please bear with me, it's a longish story! :)

I bought the above car (automatic) in May after my beloved Yaris died. I paid about £1700 for it as it was all I could afford. I think I made a hasty purchase, but small, cheap automatics are like hens teeth, I'm self employed and my daughter is autistic and needs running around to a lot of appointments (plus I live in the sticks) so being without a car was a nightmare.

Anyway, at the end of June, Piglet came to a dead stop wilst I was driving, no warning lights, no noise, nothing. I got recovery to take me to nearest garage which he said his family had used for years and was at end of my road. They said that my head gasket had gone, and charged me 500 pounds to fix it. The invoice states (I'm copying it here cos it's just jargon to me!) remove head from engine, strip down, have tested & faced, refit parts to head, then head to engine, fit new thermostat, cambelt kit & fanbelt. Head pressure tested & faced is also on invoice, together with plugs, oil filter, oil, head bolts & anti freeze.

I picked it up & went to get daughter from school, whilst there, a friend noticed that the bonnet was open and tried to shut it for me, it wouldn't shut as there was a spanner left on the top so the catch couldn't 'catch'!
At first, Piglet seemed to have a new lease of life, but gradually started to loose a bit of power, and was running sluggishly, then started 'chugging' a bit at low speeds. (Almost like when a manual car is about to stall.)
Mid October, I was on my way to the motorway, stopped for petrol & a very helpful man at the petrol station noticed water dripping from underneath the car (under front.)
He put some more water in for me and suggested I take it back to the garage.

I did this, and they told me that it was the thermostat housing that had leaked, and charged me 40 pounds to fit a new one.
Then, at the beginning of this month, it refused to start and when it finally got going, took me 2 miles up the road before the STOP light started flashing and it made a horrible noise.
I rang the garage, he tried to tell me to put some water in it and get it to him, but I honestly didn't know where to put it, so he came out to where I'd broken down, put some water in and followed me back to his garage.
He then did nothing for 3 days, and I had to chaase him as he wasn't ringing me back, eventually, he rang and said to come and pick it up. He said that it had been the water not circulating, a pipe was cold that should have been hot and that he'd taken the thermostat out and put it back in again. He didn't charge me, but asked that I go back 3-4 days later so he could check the water levels. I took the car out for a few runs and found i was doing the same thing again, chugging along.
I took it back again, and when he asked if I had returned to have the water checked, I said that I had brought i back to be fixed as it was doing the same thing as last time before it 'died' and I couldn't risk that with my daughter in the car.
Besides, from what a friend had explained to me, if I carried on driving it and the head gasket was about to go, I could do some serious damage to my engine.
This was last Wednesday, he didn't ring me or his wife, who runs the 'office' as he had promised too. Even though I had asked him to as I deperatly needed my car for several psychiatrist appointments I had for my daughter Thurs & Fri.
He didn't reeturn two of my calls on Friday, and I eventually caught his wife yesterday. She said he'd just popped out & would ring me back, he didn't.
After ringing twice today, he eventually rang me back to say that they were 'having a think' as to what to do.
Basically he said that he thought that there was some water leaking into my cylinder and that would get on my spark plugs and that was probably what was causing the chugging at low speeds and misfiring.
He said that the cheapest option, would be to run some 'additive' round the system which might seal any leak. If not, it would be taking the whole head of the block (whatever that means) which would be expensive.
I'm totally confused and to be honest, even 50 pounds is a lot to me right now. I've tried to ask a few male friends for advice, but most said they don't know enough about it, but they reckoned that the gaage hadn't done the initial head gasket job properly.
I've looked on wikipedia about gaskets and cylinders and have only confused myself further. From what I can see, the head gasket is fixed to the cylinder and then 'capped' with something.
I feel like he has made a mistake somewhere when he did the original job, and then placated me by 'tweaking' things just to get me out of his garage and back on the road, when what he should have done, is taken it all apart again?

I really don't know, but what I do know is that I get the feeling that he is telling me anything because I'm a dozy woman! I really object to that, but feel like I'm in no position to argue without knowing what I'm talking about! I used to have a fab garage I went to, I trusted him completely, but sadly his garage burnt down earlier this year. i just don't trust this bloke, but at the same time, I need my car fixed, and safely back on the road without spending any more money on it that I shouldn't have to it this was all his fault.

Anyone that has read this far (sorry it's such a long story!), thank you! And if anyone could offer any advice I'd be very grateful.
Many thanks
Lucy

{Attempt to make subject header less vague - i.e. to include a brief summary of question being asked}

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 26/11/2009 at 00:39

01 1.6 Damsel in distress - advice needed please! - injection doc
Head gaskets are a weakness on any car. it doesn't sound like the garage are inspiring you with confidence.
I would seek another opinion as to what the underlying problem is. Any slight water loss can cause a problem at any time with a head gasket whether its new or old.
When a head gasket is replaced a garage only has to garantee their work for 3 months although some may warranty their work a lot longer.
£ 500 is not expensive & the stress of the problem may be dearer than finding someone who knows what they are doing to fix it properly.
01 1.6 Damsel in distress - advice needed please! - perro
My first thought Lucy is to take the car to another garage but that would cost you even more money.
It's not really possible for anyone to comment with accuracy on the standard of work that has been carried out by this garage.
The car is after all 8 years old and head gaskets do suffer failure on some cars - there could even be a hairline crack in the cylinder head or block which can only be found using specialized equipment.
So, my advice to you would be to have a word with Trading Standards & Good Luck!
www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/advice/problemswithveh...m
01 1.6 Damsel in distress - advice needed please! - mousie
Thank you both very much. Really appreciate someone taking the time to plough through my posting!

I think I will take it to another garage, both to get another opinion and hopefully find one that I can trust. I think you get a 'feeling' for these places, and I haven't felt quite comfortable with the place I've gone recently.

Add to that how intimidating garages can be as a woman walking in on your own, and it can all be very difficult and confusing.

Anyway, thank you for your advice - much appreciated.

Lucy
01 1.6 Damsel in distress - advice needed please! - bazza
HI Mousie, I'm suspecting you may have a warped or cracked cylinder head, allowing water into the combustion chamber(s) but it's only a guess. From what you're saying, I am wondering if the garage have carried out the initial job satisfactorily. The invoice suggests yes, your symptoms suggest otherwise!
Sealants/additives etc may be a temporary to medium term fix. Cheap bodge really, for you and the garage. Not a proper engineering solution though, remember you've already paid for that once.
I'd be tempted to get assertive with the garage and demand they either fix the problem at no extra cost to yourself or you'll be taking it elswhere and charging them the fee to put it right. As above, talk to Trading Standards first for the correct course of action and make a judgement based on the helpfulness or otherwise of the garage. I strongly suspect the original fault has not been properly rectified.
01 1.6 Damsel in distress - advice needed please! - AirborneJohn
First of all hello Mousie.

I conclude with Bazza if water wasn't circulating properly and the car is overheating its either the water pump, cylinder head, head gasket or the thermostat and last of all the system hasnt been bled properly.

With the car chugging the way you say it does sound like water is getting into the cylinders. I think almost definately this is a warped or cracked head. I believe the garage stated on your invoice the head was crack tested. So either this is clearly not the case and you are being lied to as if this was done the problem would be gone if the head gasket was fitted and done properly ie torqued down correctly etc.

So either way they are at fault. If its an ignition problem or otherwise they should sort it or pay for it to be rectified.

Please come back with any questions as I do feel for you.

Kind regards


John
01 1.6 Damsel in distress - advice needed please! - mousie
Thank you so much John and Bazza - may I just say that it is heartening to know that there are still a few gents left in this world that will take the time to help - so many thanks for this. It's very much appreciated.

I checked the invoice and it says tested, not crack tested (but I don't know if there is any difference.)

Well, as an update, the garage put this 'wonder weld' through last Thursday. He said that he'd taken the car out a few times, the first time, still 'missing' then second time appeared to be fine. He said it was repressurising.

So, I picked Piglet up on Friday, popped into town (5 miles) no problems, then went off yesterday to Ikea, or at least I tried. Same problem, overheated, ended up on a dual carriageway waiting for Green Flag. Chap from Green Flag was fantastic and put some water in for me, he then left it running and all seemed well. He followed me back to near where I live and not a problem. Temp gauge barely went over 70. I then pottered round for a bit and still no problem!

I really am not sure quite what to do now. I don't particularly relish having a 'showdown; with the garage, (even though I am a little more confident I know a little more head gasket 'lingo' now!) but if needs be I will.
Thing is, at the current moment, there isn't actually anything wrong with it as such, and I know the garage will say this.
I don't trust the car at all, and certainly wouldn't want to go any futher than the local shops in it (wouldn't want to be on the motorway and this happens) and I even considered selling it and buying something else. But 1. I'd loose a lot on it & would struggle to find an even cheaper small automatic and 2. I couldn't in all honesty sell a car to someone when I know it's about to die. I'm sure some people could, but I honestly wouldn't be able to sleep at night.

Anyway, thanks again for your time & advice and if anyone has a brain wave, please let me know! (Maybe I should get a push bike!)

Lucy
01 1.6 Damsel in distress - advice needed please! - bazza
Hi Lucy
So basically, the garage had added Radweld or similar, and handed it back to you. I'm not convinced the original problem has been or can be sorted like that. Sounds like there's still a coolant loss and subsequent overheating, I still think there's a cylinder head problem. Keep an eye on the coolant level over the next few days, have a good look around the radiator and hoses/engine area for external leaks, with the engine running. Just incase, check also inside the car for signs of heater matrix leaking (damp carpets?/damp smell?). If you are losing coolant but no obvious signs of leakage, it suggests head/head gasket failure ( coolant will be lost internally and your rough running -chugging- suggests that.). Is there anyone else who can advise you - maybe the owner of the old garage you used? Any good mobile mechanics in your area?
At the end of the day the car is not properly repaired and you may need to make a strong case against the original garage, in my opinion. Don't be fobbed off.
Best of luck and keep posting, plenty of experts on here, far more knowledgable than I!