|
Read somewhere that GM will hang onto it. They seem to be recovering quickly.
|
New GM (without a lot of the liabilities) does seem to be recovering. Keeping SAAB is probably doable and makes sense. When they agreed to sell it they had to.
I wonder if they avoided bad publicity around retaining SAAB (like the did GM Europe) by asking the buyer to pull out?
I wish them all the best personally. Nobody wants them to fail do they? Massive global employer.
|
Those who follow the motor industry are acutely aware of SAABs current problems. Joe Normal still thinks of it as a good brand. A good, well managed marketing team could still easily re-launch it with some willingness and investment from GM.
I am available at the right price......
;-)
|
|
I'm free ! (in all senses of he word) - I just hope it succeeds.
|
|
I think Koenigsegg were a bit optimistic in thinking they could make Saab work. And as GM have a made-over Insignia ready to release as the new 9-5, I hope they stick to it. It would be a shame to see Saab go at the expense of numerous faceless Korean/Chinese car companies.
|
Not looking so good for SAAB tonight if not sold...
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8389677.stm
To quote:
"GM said that if it did not find a "suitable arrangement" it would then "wind down" Saab."
Edited by rtj70 on 02/12/2009 at 00:11
|
Maybe HJ members could buy it, call it for the Budgie Consortium. We could then run it for a few years, milk out the assets, maybe sell any none GM copyright stuff to the Chineese then have a good retirement with the money we milk from it when the company goes into admin.
|
|
Funny how great names get ruined by the big boys - Saab by GM, Volvo by Ford, Bank of Scotland by Halifax, Natwest by Royal Bank of Scotland...........
|
|
GM ruined Saab. The old stuff was great, but the newer GM-based cars are plagued with problems. Ford are doing the same with Volvo.
|
I couldn't agree more - as a long term (proper) SAAB owner of old. My VAG replacement just feels like a committe designed appliance.
As long as one of the big boys doesn't get hold of Fuller's brewery...
659.
|
As long as one of the big boys doesn't get hold of Fuller's brewery... 659.
>>
We do have Pride you know!
|
|
Maybe HJ members could buy it call it for the Budgie Consortium. We could then run it for a few years milk out the assets maybe sell any none GM copyright stuff to the Chineese then have a good retirement with the money we milk from it when the company goes into admin.
Now that sounds like a plan
|
Of course I was just taking the mick out of what happened at Rover but unless a bigger company takes over Saab it can only go the same way.
I don't think Volvo has been ruined it got to use some of the best Ford technology, sadly Saabs were based on rather average GM platforms and that is why they are no longer what they were. Saab never as strong image as BMW or Merc so the market is probably a little crowded anyway.
|
|
We can't agree on almost anything which would be a good start
|
|
I had a Saab 95 Estate for a week a little while back. It was one of those cars where I couldn't think of any reason why anyone would buy one. It didn't handle or ride as well as a Mondeo or Passat, had a petrol engine with turbo lag like a diesel and the Dame Edna facelift has completey ruined the previously attractive styling. The seats were comfy, but they are on all large cars these days and there was a button to switch off the all the dashboard lights except for the speedo which I've only ever seen on Saabs. This, together with the fiddly transmission mounted ignition switch, seem to be the only things differentiating it from any other large estate car.
|
there was a button to switch off the all the dashboard lights except for the speedo which I've only ever seen on Saabs.
Peugeot / Citroën offer this on some cars too (and have for a few years), so even that isn't unique.
But since when do people buy cars because they're unique? They need to be good cars full stop, quirky features don't sell cars, do they?
The obvious problem is, that recent Saabs are just not good enough for the price being charged.
|
There's a huge difference between the genuinely well thought out detailing of the pre-GM SAABs which resulted in some odd but logical features and GM's attempts to replicate them by adding a few "features" to their standard platforms.
At the bottom end of the market, GM might just get away with digging out some old flashy badge and sticking it on Daewoos, but with SAAB they had a discerning market and a really well detailed product to follow. Original SAABs were far better thought out than the American applicators of chrome headlamp bezels and other hopelessly non-contextural details could possibly manage.
Of course it hasn't worked - and won't. RIP SAAB - I still miss mine.
659.
|
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8421007.stm
I find this quite sad but we all knew it would come to this :(
|
|
Should be plenty 9-3 convertibles for knock-down prices over next month or two (see also Rover after their demise) - expect 40-50% discount on RRP.
|
Pity that VAG didnt buy it. A saab version of the Yeti would have been nice, or how about ruggedised Octavias?
Shame that Gm took them on really, I think they knobbled the best bits of the company.
|
Shame that Gm took them on really I think they knobbled the best bits of the company.
Just like BMW - Rover then!
|
Just like BMW - Rover then!
No not at all. Rover had no "best bits"
|
No not at all. Rover had no "best bits"
Land Rover technology, New MINI......
|
I think that is unfair. They had a lot of knowledge of four wheel drive cars, how to make classy smaller cars, and of course knowledge of front wheel drive systems. None of which BMW had.
They also had a creative work force which could make outdated designs look almost modern.
I think Saab would have gone under if GM had taken them over or not, this market sector is just too crowded.
|
And don't forget the series 1 BMW has bits of rover under the bonnet.
Not too sure if they still have rover bits.
When the 1 series came out it looked very much like a rover design (that was shelved).
Austin rover web site has more details.
Edited by diddy1234 on 18/12/2009 at 15:15
|
I think Saab would have gone under if GM had taken them over or not this market sector is just too crowded.
>>
I don't agree Rattle. As long as you have a distinctive identity, which is valued by its customers, then you will survive.
Saab had that, before GM "corporatized" them.
|
I think Saab would have gone under if GM had taken them over or not this market sector is just too crowded.
Sadly I have to agree. I always wanted a Saab at some point. I was going to buy a 9-3 but the headrests were massively intrusive and I've since found out their reliability was hopeless.
I had a 9-5 hire car and was hugely disappointed by the handling and quality of the interior. Both were shocking for a very expensive, almost new car.
The image is not enough on its own. RIP.
|
No not at all. Rover had no "best bits"
P6
|
|
Exactly MD. And the P5B Coupe. If any of those get scrapped they should have the seats taken out and put in the living room!
|
|
...the Saab/Vectra-based Cadillac BLS is already very heavily discounted at broadspeed, drivethedeal, etc. Guess we can expect the Saab models to follow shortly.
|
It's not only sad (I always fancies a Saab, just never got round to it) but also stupid - the replacement 9-3 and 9-5 was already in the can, just waiting to be released. They both looked a big improvement on the old cars too.
If they'd got them out on the road, it might have been enough to keep things going.
Thanks GM, thanks a bunch. Now our roads become even more monotonous than they were before.
|
Yes, very sad. GM seem to have a certain talent for failing to take advantage of a brands strengths. Thank goodness Lotus survived their kiss of death.
JH
|
"GM said its focus would remain on its four core brands - Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet and GMC - as well as its European business Opel"
No mention of Vauxhall... or am I reading too much into that?!
|
No mention of Vauxhall... or am I reading too much into that?!
Vauxhall's are Opels with different grilles/badges......
....But...IMO the cost of those differences will soon become 'too much' and by 2011 Vauxhall will just exist in history books.
|
....But...IMO the cost of those differences will soon become 'too much' and by 2011 Vauxhall will just exist in history books.
>>
Well that would be commercial suicide if you ask me, the UK is GM's biggest market in Europe,
Ok Vauxhalls may be re-badged Opels, however Vauxhall technically sell more cars than Opel. the brand in itself is stronger
Vauxhalls Ellesmere port plant is in GM's top 10 most productive/effciant plants ahead of Opels and this goes to show with the contract for the new Astra, so I dont see the Vauxhall name being dropped just yet.
|
it's only an Opel with a different badge.
JH
|
it's only an Opel with a different badge. JH
Remember in the late 1970s/early 80s they were marketed as Vauxhall-Opel. All the branding was under the combined name and the separate identities disappeared for a few years. Eventually they saw the error of their ways and everything went back to being two different organisations
|
Nope, I missed that. I remember my dad having a Vauxhall Chevette and our neighbour had an Open Kadett. Clearly the same car with different front wings and a few other tweaks but the neighbour wouldn't have it. Still the neighbour did go on to buy an Allegro (or did that come before) so what can you say? :-)
JH
|
The Chevette and Kadett were different cars. The Shovel had the 1256cc engine and the Kadett had something much better. As well as better handling due to different shocks/springs and a few other things. There was the Royale/Senator business and all that.
Eventually GM gave up with Vauxhalls and they became exactly the same as Opels, developed in Germany. The technical centre in Luton closed down and became a sort of training and call centre. Around 79-80's a lot of dealers were branded 'Vauxhall-Opel' as the brands merged, and then the Opel was dropped. I coincided with the intro of the FWD Astras and Cavaliers. I think they are Opel in Ireland still. Im sure the name Vauxhall was only kept for patriotic reasons and to keep some of the fleet buyers feeling happy they were buying british.
|
GM are an example of an engineering and marketing company taken over by muppets.
The design of the cambelt tensioner on many of their engines - the water pump - is a classic case of cost saving taking precedence over good design.
After 3-4 years , a new cambelt and its adjustment results in a leak as the water pump gasket fails..
See also Astra camshafts..
|
I think it's a shame. IMO the 9-3 and 9-5 are good looking cars. Hopefully the 2.0T petrol engine will continue to live on in Vauxhall/OPELs.
Will be interesting to see what price they come down to now.
|
GM are an example of an engineering and marketing company taken over by muppets.
GM isn't a car company - its an insurance/healthcare company when you look at their financial reports! It has swallowed up their whole business. And look at the similarity of the situation to British Leyland. GM had too many 'unclear' brands that clashed with each other - BL had the same problem.
|
I remember they had different engines. I wouldn't like to say at what point they may be regarded as different cars. They looked identical from tha A pillar back. Anway this is SAAB's funeral 'scuse me chattering at the back of the church.
JH
|
I quote a senior GM exec as saying "saab is a company run by boffins in sports jackets with leather elbow patches".
Its a pity they couldn't see that this is the esscence of the value in the brand itself.
Edited by Roly93 on 18/12/2009 at 16:29
|
|
I remember getting a weekly lift in a classic shape saab 900 as a kid in 1980. It felt so solid and secure on the road, lovely dashboard, unusual shape. I drove a saab 95 last year and there was no comparison. GM have taken all the individuality and quality out of the product. I still like the looks though, I just wish the bits underneath were better.
|
GM have taken all the individuality and quality out of the product.
Too true. I ran a 1995 9000 CDE 2.3 Auto for a while and was a member of the Saab Owners Club. From reading the Club Magazine and speaking to a few members it became clear that the overriding opinion was that, while still being good cars, the later 900, 9-3 and 9-5 couldn't match the 99, 900 and 9000 on sheer quality. My 9000 certainly felt as though it was unburstable and could carry on for another 150,000 miles without a problem.
It's such a shame that the Saab brand hasn't been allowed to go back to it's roots. Still, at least we've got our memories!
|
So that's it for SAAB, after two optimistic sounding potential buyers have finally walked away, GM are going to wind down SAAB. Shame, I think, as I've seen the new 9-5 at a preview event, and was sure that it could have been the answer to some of the company's woes.
It hasn't made a profit since 2001, so GM couldn't afford to continue in that manner for too long. What does everyone else think?
|
|
I've not seen the point of them since the 1980s.
|
|
I think that they went wrong when GM started to position them as a premium offering, then started to force volume on a market that wasn't prepared to accept them, used values went down the pan, then thrown in a disastrous model year "improvement" to the 9-5, and people started to question the company's sanity.
|
>>The design of the cambelt tensioner on many of their engines - the water pump
I don't think that has been true since about 1991 - the engines also have a sprung double eccentric tensioner, and you may choose to leave the water pump well alone.
Even before then, I tended to leave the water pump well alone when fitting a new belt, sliding the old belt off, and the new one on. 9 times out of 10, the tension was OK, and you could avoid having to disturb the water pump.
|
I think it's simplistic to date Saab's problems from the beginning of GM's involvement. In the 90s that produced the 9-5 and the original 9-3, which may not have been world-beaters but which each established a loyal customer following, me included. I drove two Saabs over nearly seven years, took one on my honeymoon, brought my first child home in the other, and never felt that I'd have done as well to choose a Vectra instead.
The turning point was the new 9-3 in 2002, which threw away much of the distinctiveness Saab buyers valued - most of all the five-door body - in favour of being a second-rate me-too Audi imitation. I jumped to Volvo and never went back. I still hankered after a 9-5 estate until the 2005 face-smash knocked that idea into the weeds.
Saab had carved its niche by pleasing customers, not Clarksons or sales managers called Gary. GM or whoever sent it off after a new market and in the process lost sight of its old one, and that's courting disaster in any field of business.
|
|
We could then run it for a few years milk out the assets maybe sell any none GMcopyright stuff to the Chineese then have a good retirement with the money we milk from it when the company goes into admin.
You could then get the premises you don't need!!
Martin
|
|
|
|
|
