When I had my Volvo, I had the DRLs turned off too. Unnecessary power consumption and the cost of replacing expensive Xenons were issues, but I mostly did it because I didn't want to be the archetypal Volvo owner, cursed by some for blinding lights at all times of the day, no matter what the conditions. With the DRLs off I was just another car on the road, not attracting the kind of vitriolic hatred that a minority of people (often bikers) direct toward Volvo owners.
Silly, I know - I'm probably exaggerating a little, I guess. It's the same reason why I don't drive a BMW - even though I like them, I can do without the aggravation from certain people, driven by fixed prejudices on how a car will be behave, judged purely by the badge on the bonnet!
Of course, specific low-power DRLs instead of Volvo's blinding headlights would be a different matter. I don't mind them, although it does seem a waste of power during good daylight.
I would prefer the EU to mandate auto headlights instead. That way you don't get muppets driving along urban streets or darkened tunnels with no lights on, oblivious as to why people keep pulling out on them and flashing them as they go by...
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I would prefer the EU to mandate auto headlights instead. That way you don't get muppets driving along urban streets or darkened tunnels with no lights on oblivious as to why people keep pulling out on them and flashing them as they go by...
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We didn't have a problem of seeing oncoming cars in the days when everyone just used sidelights in built-up areas. Even the small top-of-the wing sidelights of Mk I Jaguars were sufficiently visible. The problem only began to occur when self-righteous drivers started creating a lot of light pollution by using dipped headlights in built-up areas.
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I'll take your word for it, given that I'm too young to remember that far back... ;)
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We didn't have a problem of seeing oncoming cars in the days when everyone just used sidelights in built-up areas. Even the small top-of-the wing sidelights of Mk I Jaguars were sufficiently visible. The problem only began to occur when self-righteous drivers started creating a lot of light pollution by using dipped headlights in built-up areas.
Hear hear.
I'd like to see the law changed so that headights are only allowed on unlit roads. increased lighting on cars is a classic case of more equalling less, the blind blinding the blind.
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We didn't have a problem of seeing oncoming cars in the days when everyone just used sidelights in built-up areas.
+1
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I like daytime running lights, I'm surprised they haven't become universal on vehicles in the same way as high-level third brake lights or rear fog-lights.
However, they should not be used in place of headlights when it starts to get dark or foggy.
Having said that, our two cars are old and don't have daytime running lights. I suppose I could drive around with sidelights on all the time but they would hardly show anyway.
Re: Drivers using just sidelights in built-up areas at night. I only remember seeing people doing this in central London, not anywhere else. I'm talking about in the early 1970s. I lived in a town not far from London and people always used headlights there.
Edited by Sofa Spud on 30/10/2009 at 15:10
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Motorcycles could have flashing LED strobes like police motorbikes, but purple instead of blue.
The LED DRLs go dimmer when you put the proper lights on, so they are deemed by the manufacturer to be unsuitable at full brightness at night.
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Motorcycles could have flashing LED strobes like police motorbikes but purple instead of blue.
Why not red/white strobes in addition to standard lights, similar to many pushbikes?
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With all this talk about motorbikes, we forget that pedestrians and cyclists don't generally have any lights. So during the day they will not stand out at all, and let's not forget that they can have priority over a car at junctions.
Obviously at night any cyclist without lights should be called an organ donor, but that's not part of this thread.
DinUK
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I've got an older V70, and have only had to replace 1 bulb in 2 years (about 30k miles), so I don't know what people are doing to blow bulbs so quickly.
On a Volvo or a SAAB at least the lights are set up so that there are lights on the front and back, as opposed to the new Audi ones which seem to be purely a look at me trick as they are only on the front.
The biggest problem with the Audi is that often they come in a silver or grey... which is invisible in spray, particularly when approaching from the rear, so are completely invisible.
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I've got an older V70 and have only had to replace 1 bulb in 2 years (about 30k miles) so I don't know what people are doing to blow bulbs so quickly.
Original or P2 ? P2 cars crank the engine with the day running lights on.
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"Original or P2 ? P2 cars crank the engine with the day running lights on."
Original; and the switch is always on as a previous owner deactivated DRL.
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A rather ill tempered colleague has accused me of dazzling him in a queue of traffic.
Only had my DRLs on and would he would not accept they were only a low wattage.....
So people are dazzled by them- better get used to them in the next two years.
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I rather like them - especially as I spend so much time on motorways. However it seems to me that they work best with auto lights as others have observed people tend to rely on them when lighting levels drop to an extent when dipped headlamps would be better.
Also, I notice on Golf 6's that when people turn on their side-lights the brighter DRLs are extinguished leaving their front's virtually unlit (the old argument for dim-dipped I believe).
Finally, on my non HID (Xenon) BMW enabling DRLs permanently activates dipped beams rather than the attractive low wattage halogen lamps in the (redundant with bi-Xenon) high beam reflectors - a pity but only from an aesthetic perspective imho, at least BMW DRLs activate the tail lights as well.
Never (ever) found DRLs to dazzle, whereas poorly set headlamps seem very common.
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accused me of dazzling him (snip) he would not accept they were only a low wattage.....
The 11W energy saving lamp here in this room is equivalent to a 60W incandescent. If I had a 30W energy saving lamp, that'd be equivalent to a 150W incandescent - low wattage, but still rather bright.
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This time of the year my lights are on ,advised daughter to do the same better be safe than sorry.
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I am totally in favour of daytime running lights, as long as they are a single point of light! The VAG style leds looks like (to Quote Jeremy Clarkson) a council house at Christmas.
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Im not sure here but have people took the op the wrong way. It seems he was saying because the Cars had drl's they did not put their dipped beam on when requ. So that's a good observation. Personally i think like old navy drl's are good see and be seen.
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One thing I cannot understand is the gradual, piecemeal introduction of DRLs, over a year before they become compulsory - subject to a sudden change of heart by legislators. It seems mad that a so-called safety feature is being introduced in such a hit and miss fashion, rather like foglights, hazard lights, reversing lights etc. in generations past.
Buy a new Renault or Audi now and it has them fitted and working; other marques probably not. If you buy a new car now, can they be deactivated manually (if fitted) or activated (if not) by the driver ?
Can we not have some sensible legislation for once? e.g. all cars to have the circuit operable from 01.01.2010 and the circuits actually activated from 01.01.2011?
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I don't understand the comments about DRLs dazzling people. I've done 25,000 miles now in a Volvo S60 with DRLs and not once have I ever been flashed or given the impression of dazzling anyonne. Neither can I honestly say that seeing another Volvo or any other car come to that with DRLs on has caused me even the slightest problem.
The Volvo's DRLs can be deactivated, but it's done in software by a dealer. I can't be bothered, as apart from an increased appetite for (cheap, easy to change) bulbs, they don't cause me, or so far as I can work out anyone else, any problems at all.
Cheers
DP
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I would agree that they don't dazzle in daytime, BUT they do make it more difficult to judge the distance to oncoming traffic, especially on unfamiliar roads, and they certainly do camouflage motorbikes efficiently - quite apart for the additional 3% ( I think it is ) fuel consumption, which not only means 3% more cash going out of the wallet but also 3% more CO2 going into the atmosphere...
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Muggy, don't get me wrong, I don't think they are necessary at all, and I do agree as a motorcyclist that having every vehicle on the road with headlamps on in the day makes me less visible. The environmental argument is also very valid. If it didn't mean handing over £80 to a Volvo dealer for all of 2 minutes work, I would turn mine off.
I just wasn't sure on the dazzle comments, as this isn't my experience either as a driver of a DRL equipped car, or sharing the roads with other DRL equipped cars.
Cheers
DP
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Muggy don't get me wrong I don't think they are necessary at all and I do agree as a motorcyclist that having every vehicle on the road with headlamps on in the day makes me less visible.
This is quite untrue, according to Mr. CGNorwich.
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This is quite untrue according to Mr. CGNorwich.
I don't dispute the research FT, but it truly goes against every ounce of common sense and experience in my head.
Take a road in good daylight with, for arguments sake, 100 unlit vehicles travelling along it. Turn the headlights on one vehicle and it will immediately stand out from the other 99. Turn the headlights on on all 100 vehicles, and that first vehicle becomes indistinct. When that first vehicle has a fraction of the frontal area of the other 99, and is therefore less "eye catching" to begin with, it is at an immediate disadvantage.
All you need to avoid a SMIDSY accident is for the car driver to acknowledge your presence. I firmly believe a headlight achieves that not only through making you more visible, but through making you stand out against other vehicles that do not have headlights. I'm trying to look at it from the perspective of a keen car driver as well as a motorcyclist.
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Muggy - 3% more fuel consumption to power a bunch of LEDs?
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I do not object to DRLs - I can see them and the car!
What I object to in the new front lights are the indicators located on the inside of the headlamp cluster - at night no problem but in daylight the flashers can be nigh on invisible.
Is it just my eyes being over 60 or do the younger BRs have similar issues?
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I'm nearly 40 but I agree with you entirely on the integrated indicators, FB. A retrograde step in safety if ever there was one.
As for daytime running lights, why are they called that? Wouldn't daytime lights be sufficient? My other lights are not nightime running lights, nor running lights of any kind. They are simply lights.
Don't know about the motorbike issue, thinking about it. After all, a light's a light, and you don't want to hit one whether it's on a car or a bike. Bike safety is a subject close to my heart for reasons I've given on here previously, but I'd be interested to hear further thoughts from bikers on this.
In principle, I am minded to think these daytime lights unnecessary in this country.
Edited by Alanovich on 04/11/2009 at 12:34
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Yes but. AFAIK Volvos use their dipped headlights for daytime running. Dipped lights do exactly that, they are designed such that the majority of the light output is directed below the eye level of other drivers.
These ruddy LED things point forwards like main beams and, while the total output may be lower, a significant part of it is pointed right at your eyeballs. That and the fact that light output has a rather high colour temperature, serves to make them rather dazzling IMHO. They certainly stick out like a sore thumb from those with their headlights on.
Actually, that "total output" bit leads to another point - is it? There's a limit of 55w on dipped headlights. Now a 55w Halogen kicks out way more than an old skool bulb or sealed beam unit of the same wattage. Likewise, HIDs return more grunt for their 55w than conventional Halogens do. Given the way that technology changes, would it not be better to have the limit on ANSI lumens of output rather than bulb wattage? I have a sneaking suspicion that a future vehicle equipped with 55w LED lights would look rather like the Eddystone Lighthouse on wheels.......
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it not be better to have the limit on ANSI lumens of output rather than bulb wattage?
Yes.
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