BBC pictures of M1 under construction:
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8328179.stm
Radio 4 documentary 'M1 Magic' (30 mins), available for 6 days on iPlayer:
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00nfqz6
'In 1959 there was no speed limit, no central reservation, no crash barriers and no street lights'. Sounds like fun :-)
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worst thing ever constructed - connected London with rest of country and we have suffered ever since. - Only time I ever used it was in 1965 to go to Mortorcycle show. Never been sowf of Milton fluid since. ;-)
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connected London with rest of country
Excellent non-metropolitan view of the world.
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Undemanding 4 min piece on this evening's One Show - bit of old newsreel and a report from the current widening project near Nottingham, where they close the motorway overnight to put up 100 ton bridge sections. Starts at 22:50:
www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00nq9sk/The_One_Sho.../
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'In 1959 there was no speed limit, no central reservation, no crash barriers and no street lights'. Sounds like fun :-)
Trouble is, it is a 1959 road which now has 2009 traffic. Definitely not fun this evening - over 2 hours from M62 junction south of Leeds to J 23 Loughborough. Not sure I ever got to over 55mph, 3 lengthy sets of roadworks limited to 50mph where people seem to think they should block every lane at 40mph and an accident between J29 and 30 which brought us to a standstill several times. Thank goodness it wasn't a Friday afternoon where every motorway in the country is closed for some reason or another.
About time we had some 2009 roads to celebrate
Grumpy Phil
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I think I new road would be about as politically correct as the Sex Pistols appearing at the royal vararity. I would much rather see investment in trains than roads because building new roads dosn't always solve the problem, more traffic just enters them.
Improve existing roads etc, make them safer give more capacity but building an entirely new road is not practical as the UK has run out of space.
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"building new roads dosn't always solve the problem, more traffic just enters them."
Hmmm... interesting point. The "more traffic" presumably comes from other roads thus relieving pressure on them? Or do people see a new road and rush out to buy a car to drive on it? Good job people didn't say the same in 1959 or we wouldn't even have the M1 I suppose - or am I just being naive and cynical??!!
I also spend a lot of time on public transport so I agree that there should be greater investment in public transport - everywhere except close to major cities it can be appalling. And even close to London it can be awkward if you want to go "cross country" rather than into or out of London
I would also disagree that "building an entirely new road is not practical as the UK has run out of space" (not that I suggested building entirely new roads) - there are plenty of new by-passes, roads are being upgraded (M1 widened, M25 widened, A46 made dual carriageway etc. What is needed is a bit of foresight (make the M1 6 lanes each way, London to Leeds? etc) and even in the South east there is a remarkable amount of open land that could be used to improve road communications - it just needs the will but as you say - it's not "politically correct".
Phil
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Lets say they open a new road from Manchester to Liverpool which means you can drive in rush hour and do the journey in 30 minutes where as before it would take 90 minutes in rush hour. Said people used to take the train but now drive because its suddenly quicker. That is how new roads don't always do much to reduce traffic.
Now think the same money could have been used on more train carraiges and electrication of the second line (which is what is happening) it now means journey takes 25 minutes in rush hour on the train, those that used to drive now switch to train. This mean the existing roads have less traffic.
The motorway boom ended in the early 90's for one of the reasons I stated above. I am not anti car, I am not anti road I just think endless of building of new roads won't solve traffic problems long term.
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I see your point Rattle, but you seem to be saying that the way to solve the problem is to leave road travel inconvenient to force people onto public transport. Now why not improve the roads so that "people used to take the train but now drive because its suddenly quicker". What's wrong with that?
Yes, improvements to public transport are necessary........
but, Manchester to Liverpool by train takes 50 mins ish (how do you halve that??), by road about 50 mins. Cost from Piccadilly to Lime St is £14 unless off-peak. If you don't live next door to Piccadilly but live in (say) Altrincham add another £6 (and another half hour) to get to Piccadilly and back and unless you work next to Lime St add a similar amount at that end - and the time. By road it is 34 miles - that's (say) 2 gallons of petrol return - say £10. Which is cheaper and more convenient? Which involves standing at Altrincham station in the pouring rain? Which involves changing at Market St in the pouring rain? Which involves the tram from Altrincham being delayed into Piccadilly because of a broken down one in front of it which also means that you miss your connection and have to wait another hour for another train? (I happened to have to travel from Altrincham to St Helens by public transport today - it took from 8.10 am until 11.30 - that's 3 hr 20 mins for 26 miles)
Maybe that's why I'm a bit anti public transport at the moment!! And I ain't even mentioned the subsidies to public transport which have made billionaires of the likes of Branson and the Souter (?) clan.
Regards
Phil
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Phil from 2013 it will take just 25 minutes by train go from Manchester to Liverpool because they are introducing electric lines. Its only 35 miles away its not hard to make the journey take 25 minutes :).
We need a complete package of road and rail improvements. Its not a matter of forcing people to anything, its a matter of encouring people at their own free will :).
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Rattle,
Fair enough but
"Its only 35 miles away its not hard to make the journey take 25 minutes :)."
I shall believe it when I see it!!!!
And you've still got to get to Piccadilly from home and from Lime St to place of work!! Hope the buses are electrified also!!
P
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Well at the Manchester side a lot of it will now be covered by Metrolink (2011 onwards) not sure about Liverpool. At the moment there is massive problems and for most of us a car is essential but I would like to see as we head towards the future a lot of people will use their cars less :).
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we dont all want to live in manchester though do we
well i certainly dont anyway
i was there last month on an ebay collection expedition
thoroughly dirty place yuk....
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Not relevent to the thread but maybe of interest concerning the last posts, the 3 competing railway companies 100 yrs ago were regularly returning 40 minute timings over this journey.
The Lancashire and Yorkshire, who owned the longest and most difficult route via Bolton and the Pemberton loop was doing the run in 42 minutes in 1905 using Mr Aspinall's ' Highflyer ' 4-4-2- Locomotives.....Manchester Victoria to Liverpool Exchange.
Shouldn't be too difficult to do the 25 mins, although the Pemberton Loop is long gone.
End of nerd mode !
Ted
Edited by 1400ted on 02/11/2009 at 23:27
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Quote:....""'In 1959 there was no speed limit, no central reservation, no crash barriers and no street lights'. Sounds like fun :-)""
Almost from its opening, Midland Red operated full-size coaches that cruised at 80 mph along th M1. Later versions were capable of 100mph although they didn't travel that fast in service.
farm3.static.flickr.com/2517/3774671462_a1ab8cf473...g
Edited by Sofa Spud on 02/11/2009 at 23:35
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Also I remember, as a child, being a passenger in luxury cars travelling at 100 mph+ on the M1. In those days many drivers took motorway drivng very seriously. For instance, we were told "We're going on the M1 now - so sit absolutely still and no talking"!
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As to the future expansion of the motorway network. No need to carve great swathes through virgin countryside - the network of motorways-in-waiting already exists in the form of our trunk dual carriageway network. They're already turning the A1 into motorway, bit by bit. Imagine an A34 and A43 being upgraded to an M34 Southampton - Oxford - Northampton - A1 route. No money at the moment, but one day.
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A great deal of it was made of concrete slabs with asphalt expansion joints. The concrete had a ribbed surface too. Lots and lots of road noise. Some of the A12 is still like that.
It was a useful artery especially at first. Not so much traffic for one thing. And mimsing was less fashionable before bog standard rep boxes could all do 0-60 in under 8 seconds and cruise all day at 130. People are so perverse.
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our trunk dual carriageway network
We should be so lucky. Norwich is still waiting for the last stretch of the A11 to be fully dualled let alone turned into a motorway. Still here has been some progress. When I moved up here in 1974 the A11 entered Norwich via a 16th century hump backed bridge with one way operation controlled by traffic lights!
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Progress in Norfolk?, I don't believe it!
Does that mean it's coming to us in the Fen sometime soon?
Pat
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