Bit unusual to be posting this as a seller (it?s normally people on the other side saying how they?ve been had), but I?m hoping you guys will give me some impartial advice.
Recently sold a car to a trader (after owning it a month) which had a speedo fault. Had the speedo changed but didn?t get the mileage corrected as it wasn?t THAT far off the correct mileage. (yes I know I should have...)
The new owner has called me to say he has contacted the previous owner and has realised the mileage isn?t correct. The car was sold under market value with a known fault which was declared to the buyer.
I?ve offered to take the car back and give him a full refund. But he is suggesting he would prefer a cash settlement as he is already having the work that needed doing already carried out. If I was to take the car back I would have to pay for all the work, which seems to be more expensive than the quote I had. Personally I don?t believe he is having the work carried out. I can?t really follow it up as it?s being done by a ?mate?.
What options do I have? Only suggestion I can think of is that I get him to sign a letter stating he is aware that the mileage is not accurate/ correct and has bought the car knowing this. But will this stand for anything legally? I?m worried that if he finds a fault with the car he will kick up a fuss again or threaten me with other legalities? Not done much car buying or selling so just want as little hassle as possible...
I?m willing to correct my mistake but would like to cover myself. Although ideally I?d like the car back so that I can correct the mileage and resell it.
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So lets get this straight.
You sold the car to a dealer, dealer sold the car on. Dealers problem, not yours.
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I'd agree with NorfolkDriver.
I'm not claiming any legal expertise on this, but I would have thought that unless the dealer you sold the car to asked you if the milage was genuine you did not actually have a duty to inform him of the speedo change. He presumably bought the car as seen.
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i dont understand your post
are you the trader or the man that sold it to a trader who has since sold it on
if you are a trader you should have put a mileage disclaimer on the speedo head next to the mileage shown and also brought it to the buyers attention on the sales invoice where he signs and dates the invoice
if you sold it into the trade you should have signed an invoice to say mileage incorrect
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I'm not a trader, I sold the car to a trader (so he say he is...). He didn't prove this and I didn't ask for proof. Except he filled out the 'Motor Trader' section of the V5, handed me it and kept the rest.
He hasn't sold the car on yet. He's claming the car is for him?!
On the receipt I wrote sold as seen with no guarantees/ warranties given or implied...
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so you lied?
or did you just forget to tell him the car went backwards to warsaw for a weekend?
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I?m sure it?s a lot less interesting for you to give someone the benefit of the doubt but lets for a minute assume the sellers intentions we?re not underhand.
Would a post sale agreement regarding the correctness of the mileage hold any weight legally?
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If he asked about the mileage and your were not truthful then you are in the brown.
If he never asked, and you didn't advertise it as being an inaccurate mileage then the new buyer is unlikely to get anywhere.
How big is the "discrepancy" ? Are we talking 2-3 thou, or 20-30 ?
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My question is not about who is right or wrong.
What I would like to know is if I have a written signed acknowledgement from both sides that the mileage is not accurate, would this be sufficient to put this issue to bed?!
I?m willing to reimburse the buyer but I genuinely think he doesn?t care about the mileage, he?s found a way of getting the car even cheaper than he already did. Being a trader he was able to knock me down by almost 25% from my asking price. If he didn?t think he had a deal he would be wanting to bring the car back and have his money back surely?!
I'm just trying to minimise hassle for me. It's obvious he thinks he has me up against the wall, I wouldn't normally give in this easy but I'd prefer to save myself the hassle...
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What hassle do you expect ?
What worth is "a written signed acknowledgement" ?
The mileage is false. End of.
There is no way of guaranteeing the mileage on the replacement speedo, so that's the dealer's problem.
If you had misrepresented the car when you sold it, then that is your problem.
It's a business transaction, treat it as one. If you haven't misrepresented the vehicle as the dealer didn't ask about the mileage and you didn't advertise it as having a lower mileage then tell him to go whistle.
If you did misrepresent it then you owe the dealer the difference in value between a car of higher mileage and lower mileage. or a full refund. His choice.
This 'acknowledgement' you mention is meaningless.
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I don't know what hassle to expect but he's threatening with contacting VOSA etc
I would prefer a full refund and have made that clear to him, that way there should be no complaints. But he seems reluctant. Saying he?s started to have work done.
Surely something needs to be in writing to suggest the new price of the car is reflective of the mileage? Hence a written acknowledgement. Otherwise what is stopping him from kicking up a fuss after getting the money and contacting VOSA anyway?
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What fuss can he kick up?
Did you lie to him or misrepresent it ?
If not then sleep peacefully.
If you did then go away.
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If it going to get legal then do nothing, you sold it as is, and to be fair you should really be making the DVLA aware that he is keeping the car for himself but registering it as a dealer so it will have 1 less owner then it really has had.
Tell him to do one and go for him to try it on with a different mug, your not playing!
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Unless the trader (buyer) said "is that the correct mileage" you have nothing to worry about. And even if he did, if you said:
"No, I changed the speedo for one nearly the same mileage as before" - no problem.
"Cant guarantee it" - no problem.
It is only if he asked the question and you said "yep, I guarantee that it is the correct mileage" that you have anything to answer.
And if that was verbal then it is his word against yours anyway. And you say you the receipt said sold as seen with no guarantees / warranties given or implied.
No need to offer him anything IMO, keep your hands in your pockets, he is probably trying it on, and a post sale agreement would stand probably for nothing legally anyway.
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Anonymous, unless you're an undeclared car trader or the buyer can produce evidence (ie a copy of the car advert) that you misrepresented the car the VOSA threat is a load of cods.
If you feel guilty however that you may well have led the chap to believe he had bought a genuine vehicle then maybe a sense of decency should prevail...sounds so old hat these days more's the pity.
Putting yourself in the buyers position for a mo would you be happy to find that this presumably average mileage genuine car you bought in good faith with a regular client in mind, in fact turns out to have a higher mileage than showing which you only discover after checking back.
You could always copy and paste the ad for us and we can give you an honest view.
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I?m not an undeclared car trader or anything to that effect. I guess I would prefer to sort this out as I can see the situation from a buyers point of view. Also he has my contact details, I?ve known people to have had a new car trashed due to a dispute.
I?ve just spoken to trading standards. Seems if I put in writing an agreement to say both parties acknowledge that the mileage isn?t correct and that a sum of £X is paid as compensation then the buyer has no come back.
The fact that he?s had work carried out means he?s accepted the car for everything else.
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I?ve just spoken to trading standards. Seems if I put in writing an agreement to say both parties acknowledge that the mileage isn?t correct and that a sum of £X is paid as compensation then the buyer has no come back. The fact that he?s had work carried out means he?s accepted the car for everything else.
How have you just spoken to TS on a Saturday morning? I know I cant round here.
The fact that he's had work carried out means he is happy with the vehicle. I would tell him where to shove his claim, he bought it as seen.
Mod's. There seems as though something isnt right with this story.
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Mod's. There seems as though something isnt right with this story.
Yet another first time poster with a complicated and baffling problem.
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I'f you're worried and don't want to tell him to get lost, just send a letter and offer a cheque as a gesture of goodwill and put a form at the bottom of the letter when he names, signs and dates it to accept it as full and final partial reimbursement for mileage adjustment.
I wouldn't worry too much about the legal side of it unless you sold it via an advert which stated an incorrect mileage.
Edited by Hamsafar on 17/10/2009 at 12:30
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They?re open till 1 on Saturday.
I don?t understand why this is so difficult to comprehend?! I sold a car with where a speedo had been replaced. I didn?t tell the buyer so I?m potentially in the wrong.
I?m happy to put things right but I don?t want to be taken for a ride. Unusual problem, perhaps, but there is nothing untowards about it.
Thanks to those who have contributed constructively.
I think I now have the answers to my questions.
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Shame we never found out what the mileage discrepancy was, though, despite asking...
Just intreagued that he would make such a fuss... I'm guessing its quite a lot!
Edited by b308 on 17/10/2009 at 12:50
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>>>>Shame we never found out what the mileage discrepancy was, though, despite asking...
>>>>Just intreagued that he would make such a fuss... I'm guessing its quite a lot!
It was around 5k. Not even sure if that would devalue the car THAT much?
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Yet another first time poster with a complicated and baffling problem.
This.
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It was around 5k. Not even sure if that would devalue the car THAT much?
If its done over 40k or so then I doubt it does... He sounds like he's just trying to screw some more discount out of you... cheeky so-and-so!
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It was around 5k. Not even sure if that would devalue the car THAT much?
If the discrepancy was genuinely only 5K, there is no material case to answer. And presumably, having asked the previous owner, the buyer knows that it was around 5K - and if he IS a trader he also knows that 5K won't make much price difference. He is just trying something on by claiming there has been deception. There isn't enough money involved for him to even bother with a Small Claims. Call his bluff.
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B3 and AT, the chap buying the car does have a complaint if he was misled into thinking that this car had genuine mileage.
If either of you bought a 'genuine' used car (the declared other fault is irrelevant) and found out afterwards that the car's mileage was incorrect, you'd soon be jumping up and down about it, especially knowing that this may well cause you to be stuck with a car with dodgy history on your hands.
It sounds like Anon is going to give an amount back to the buyer....sounds a fair solution to me....only he knows the precise exchanges that took place 'tween he and the buyer.
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I see where you are coming from, GB, but I don't thinks its quite as black and white as that... if it has done 90k miles for instance, then 5k is neither here nor there... but if its only done 15/20k then its a different ballgame... I know the OP has offered some money... I'd suggest that a fair recompence would be whatever Parkers guide shows as the difference in price based on age and mileage...
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Agreed B3 that would be a fair solution...much depends on the type of car involved.
This thread has shown just how important it is to have a checklist when viewing a car, and keeping copies of adverts and noting answers given to questions.
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You'd soon be jumping up and down about it ...
Not about the marginal mileage difference in this case. I might be wondering what other things had been 'covered up'. On the other hand, the buyer seems to have started spending time/money on the car, which implies he is/was happy with the sale. I still think he is pushing luck a bit.
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