I think it's OK to touch it but not to actually hold it in your hand. A cradle, even a Heath Robinson arrangement with a cupholder is therefore probably OK, but don't try and rcover it when it slips through onto the floor!!
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BobbyG and Bromptonaut are correct - you cannot hold the phone. You can touch it if it were in a cradle.
I know I've used the phone in the distant past fully hands free and driven.... and then thought... how did I get this far already. If something happened I was alert but the phone can be a distraction. Sure you know that already.
I'd fit a cradle to hold the phone ASAP.
My employer (due to corporate manslaughter legislation) would rather we didn't talk on the phone whilst driving. And they provide fully integrated phone kits too.
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what if the phone is a secondary device like a gps
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You still cannot hold it. It's for our safety as other drivers and pedestrians and cyclists etc.
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GUIDE TO THE NEW MOBILE PHONE LAW - The AA Motoring Trust
1. When does the new mobile phone ban come into place?
Midnight on 1 December 2003.
2. What does the ban mean?
It is a specific offence to use a hand-held phone when driving. A hand-held device is something that ?is or must be held at some point during the course of making or receiving a call or performing any other interactive communication function.? A motorist can regard driving as meaning a vehicle with the engine running. In simple terms you can use a mobile as long as you don't hold the phone and you can't use a hand-held phone if the engine is running.
3. How much is the fine if you get caught using a hand-held mobile when driving?
Motorists will receive a fixed penalty of £30.
4. What happens if you take the matter to court?
Motorists can take the matter to court and the maximum fine is £1000.
(£2,500 for drivers of goods vehicles).
5. Do you get penalty points as well as the fine?
No, not at the moment. However there are plans to introduce legislation so motorists do get penalty points and a fine. This could happen sometime in 2004.
6. Will I be able to use a hands-free phone while I'm driving?
Yes, but you can only use it if it can be operated without holding the phone. Therefore mobile phones should be placed in cradles which are attached to the dashboard. Pushing buttons is permissible.
7. Can I stick the phone on with Blu-Tack to the dashboard?
Technically yes, because the new law states that you must not hold the phone when making and receiving a call. However, The AA Motoring Trust urges drivers not to think of methods of replacing the cradle as they could make their driving more dangerous.
8. Will I still get stopped by police if I am using a hands-free phone when driving?
If you are stopped by police and you are using a hands-free phone while driving, you can face prosecution under other motoring laws. The police can charge you with driving without due care and attention, not being in proper control and dangerous driving. If there is an accident and you are using a phone you may well be charged with these offences. If someone is killed in an accident where any part of the phone is being used, the driver will almost certainly go to jail.
9. Why is the Government not introducing a ban on hands-free mobiles as well?
Drivers should remember that the police can use existing legislation if a motorist is distracted by a call on a hands-free phone. If there is an accident and the driver is using a phone, then there is a risk of prosecution for dangerous driving. The AA Motoring Trust also reminds drivers that research shows that drivers who use hands-free phones are four times as likely to be involved in an accident.
10. If the Government is banning mobile phones, then why not stop people tuning in the radio and talking?
The Government has no intention of banning these activities, which would be very difficult to enforce. The AA Motoring Trust reminds drivers that there are many potential distractions while driving and it remains the driver's responsibility to drive safely at all times.
11. Can I make and receive calls if my phone is in a cradle?
You can push buttons on the phone while it is in a cradle or on the steering wheel or handlebars of a motorbike, as long as it is in the cradle and you don't hold the phone. However, The AA Motoring Trust urges drivers not to use even hands-free phones as they are four times as likely to be involved in an accident.
12. Can you text and use the internet on your phone while driving?
The use of mobile phones for these purposes are prohibited if you hold the phone. You can push buttons on a phone while it is in the cradle as this does not breach the new regulation. However, police may use their powers to stop you under existing laws. The AA Motoring Trust urges drivers not to do this as it could be distracting. Research has shown that drivers who use hands-free are four times as likely to be involved in an accident.
13. Will motorists be able to use navigation equipment and personal digital assistants (PDAs) or other computer equipment that sends or receives data?
In theory yes ? providing it is not a hand-held device. The Government guidelines state that use of devices other than mobile phones is only prohibited if the device performs an interactive communication function by sending and receiving data. If the device does not perform this type of function, you can use the device without breaching the regulations. However, The AA Motoring Trust urges drivers not to use these machines as it could be distracting.
14. Will 2-way radios be included in the new offence?
The use of 2-way radio equipment when driving is not included in the new offence. The AA Motoring Trust urges motorists that there is still a risk of distraction and prosecution under other motoring laws.
15. Can I use a hand-held phone when I am stationary in traffic?
No, the regulations state that driving includes time when stopped at traffic lights or during other hold-ups, so you can't use a hand-held. However, if there was an accident on a motorway, for example, and you could safely say you wouldn't move, then you could turn the engine off and then use the phone.
16. Can I use my hand-held mobile if it is placed between my ear and shoulder?
No, because you will be holding the phone and breaking the new law.
17. Can I use an earpiece kit if my phone is not in a cradle?
Technically yes. The AA Motoring Trust would never recommend using this though because it would be tempting to pick the phone up and then you would be breaking the law. It could also easily fall on the floor and then you are distracted from driving by trying to pick the phone up. You can use an ear-piece kit if the phone is placed in a cradle and you don't hold the phone when receiving a call.
18. Should motorists turn off mobiles when driving?
The best way to avoid making or receiving calls in the car is to turn the phone off. However, this is not always practical for everyone. It is safer to let the phone ring and return the call when safely parked. However, motorists should remember that the car engine needs to be switched off to make or take the call. Passengers in the car can use their phones while in cars.
19. Can I make emergency calls?
There is an exemption for making 999 calls to the emergency services where it is unsafe or impractical to stop.
20. Who do the regulations apply to?
The new regulations apply to drivers of all motor vehicles, including, cars, motorcycles, goods vehicles, buses, coaches and taxis. They also apply to anyone supervising a learner driver, while he or she is driving.
21. Will cyclists be prosecuted for using a mobile phone while cycling?
No, but police do have the powers to deal with careless or dangerous cycling.
22. Have AA patrols got hands-free kits?
Yes. All AA patrols have hands-free kits in their patrol vans.
23. What is the policy across the rest of the AA for using mobile phones while at work?
When driving the mobile phone must be placed in the hands-free cradle. The hand-held phone can only be used out of its cradle when the vehicle is parked and the engine is off. The use of hand-held mobiles to send text messages while driving is also prohibited. Mobile phones must be switched off at petrol stations.
24. Are employers guilty of an offence if their employees use a hand-held phone while driving?
The regulations apply to anyone who causes or permits any other person to use a hand-held phone while driving. Under Department for Transport guidelines, they consider that employers would not be liable just because they supplied a telephone or because they phoned an employee who was driving. However, employers would probably be liable if they required their employees to use a hand-held phone while driving and might also be liable if they failed to forbid employees to use such phones on company business.
25. Will legislation be brought in to make using a mobile phone when driving endorseable?
Primary legislation is needed to make the offence endorsable. It is thought that they will make the offence endorsable which means a £60 fine and three penalty points at some point in the future. It is thought that this will be introduced in 2004.
26. Do you think hands-free kits are too expensive?
There is a wide range of hands-free kits on the market and consumers have a choice as to how much they spend. The AA Motoring Trust says that if the motorists is not prepared to spend the money on the hands-free kit, they should turn the phone off while driving. However, if you are caught using a hand-held mobile twice then that would have easily paid for the hands-free kit.
27. What are the insurance implications if motorists are caught using mobile phones when driving?
In theory, an insurance company could refuse to pay for damage to your own car if you were breaking the law at the time of the accident (ie going through red lights, using mobile telephone). The effects on your insurance if you have an accident could include loss of no claim bonus which would result in an insurance premium increase by at least 50 per cent.
A number of convictions, such as drink driving, dangerous driving may result in cover being refused or a significant financial penalty being applied.
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Wow thanks Bobby ! Very useful.
Oh and thanks to some others for the moral guidance but I was really just interested in the legalities. Happy to comply, anything for an easy life !
;-)
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Right ho then. I've now got a cradle for the BlackBerry attached to the vent and I've mounted the TomTom on a Brodit clip next to radio.....Kushty.
I've also brushed my teeth twice a day, combed my hair, said my prayers and washed behind my ears.
Snow blooming white now.
PS - It's much easier to pour a coffee, eat a butty etc. with all that electronic stuff out of the way......Still haven't smoked actually "in" the thing but being an auto you can sort of hang out of the open window Casey Jones style while dragging on a stogie and still keep a reasonable level of control.............
;-)
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I know you're joking about smoking but it is illegal in that car at all times due to it being a vehicle used for business (at times). Not that you're likely to be caught but when you return it at the end of lease you might have to pay for a professional valet to get rid of the smoke smell.
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I haven't smoked in it. I won't smoke in it, it smells too nice. I wouldn't have smoked in it even if it wasn't against the law. Have to say though, I still feel there were more urgent laws......It sometimes feels like they'll be banning bending down to tie your shoelace soon in case you inadvertantly headbutt someone......'nother thread that though. Anyway, it's bought not leased.
;-0
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It sometimes feels like they'll be banning bending down to tie your shoelace soon in case you inadvertantly headbutt someone
In the same voice as used on the Apple iPhone applications advert.... there's a law for that ;-)
Doesn't matter if bought or leased - it is a place of work.
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"I haven't smoked in it. I won't smoke in it, "
Yeah, right - I give you three weeks...
And you have to be honest!
Edited by Big Bad Dave on 10/10/2009 at 00:31
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In answer to Humph's original question, 3 points and a CU80 on my licence in Sept '08 says you can't key in a customer's phone number whilst on the move, Lt Uhura earpiece or no.
They were in an unmarked 5-series, I spotted them alongside me and dropped the handset instantly but they still followed me for some 3 miles (I presume they were doing vehicle checks / watching to see if I did anything else illegal) before stopping me right outside the factory I was calling at.
Edited by Dave_TD {P} on 10/10/2009 at 05:16
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Yeah right - I give you three weeks... And you have to be honest!
Always honest Dave, but one can also be economical with the truth.........
Heh heh.......three weeks eh ? Long time that.
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>>you can sort of hang out of the open window Casey Jones style while dragging on a stogie and still keep a reasonable level of control.............
Casey Jones eh! A steamin' and a rollin'
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We get in the car to go some place or t'other and 'er indoors starts jabbering on about naff all and I say after trying politely just the once, "Just shut up and let me concentrate please." Trying to do business on the 'phone whilst driving is a nightmare simply because it is not just a conversation. Your thoughts are naturally elsewhere.
Who here has never reached their destination and thought, hang on, I don't remember those last few miles or some part of the journey. I know I have.
As for the grease on a Kentucky FC..............Well.................
orf to work.......MD
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