Also, ferries charge for deck space by the foot, so the shorter overall lenght of a cab-over-enigne tractor is cheaper to operate (same reason super-high trailers are popular).
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I have often pondered this, and can only assume it is because a lot of the lorries on our roads come across from Europe on ferries or the Chunnel, which require them to be parked bumper to bumper. Flat front = more effiecient use of space.
Lorries in America/Canada, i would presume, very rarely go anywhere via ship, so it makes no odds how long they are.
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A quick google indicates it might be that the UK overall length limit is less than that in the States?
Edited by Focus {P} on 06/10/2009 at 10:23
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The only reason we're mainly in flat front lorries over here ( or cab over, is the technical term) is due to EU legislation limiting overall vehicle and trailer length.
This is why lorry drivers in the UK and EU, in fact have such a limited space to live in all week since the cabs can't be made any bigger.
Having said that, bonneted lorries (or T Cabs as we know them here) are pigs to manouvre and need the proverbial 40 acre field to turn that rig around:)
Pat
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You cheated Focus, you're not allowed to Google!
Pat
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You cheated Focus you're not allowed to Google!
I'd rather hear it from someone who knows what they're talking about :-)
EDIT (which I know you do)
Edited by Focus {P} on 06/10/2009 at 10:25
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...I'd rather hear it from someone who knows what they're talking about :-)...
Indeed, question answered by a woman who knows (and a man who didn't, but knew how to find out) in about 30 minutes.
Thanks, Pat, and I was pleased to hear you'll be passing on some of that wealth of knowledge.
Going back to America, I think 'cab over' something is mentioned in the novelty pop song Convoy, so the Yanks do have at least a few of them.
Edited by ifithelps on 06/10/2009 at 10:35
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Going back to America I think 'cab over' something is mentioned in the novelty pop song Convoy so the Yanks do have at least a few of them.
You mean this one: www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWO_AIh8drk
or this one :-) www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-FZZ7ye7h8
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Focus,
Top stuff - thanks very much.
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'Cab over' used in the UK to be known as 'forward control', while a bonneted design was 'normal control'.
I always understood the preference for forward control in the UK was solely down to getting the most payload into a length that was more restricted than that in the USA.
In mainland Europe the preference seems to be for forward control as well, although you see a lot of bonneted tractor units and rigids on tipper work.
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Sniff
I would add that I have deduced that the Yanks prefer "Conventionals"
because
(i) One is furthur removed from the point of impact
(ii) The longer wheel base makes for a smoother, stabler ride
and obviousley they got the room for them
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That reminds me, I've still got a special edition 7" single rectangular chocolate-coloured vinyl edition of the 'coast to coast'(?) song that was used in the old Yorkie adverts...
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of the 'coast to coast'(?) song that was used in the old Yorkie adverts...
Correction - 'Rollin' on' www.youtube.com/watch?v=olI5xzshtFQ
"I've pounded the road from coast to coast..."
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The Humber Bridge I think, though the hair styles etc indicate that the ad might be older than that, any ideas?
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And it was that advert that made me decide to swap places from the Reps company car to being a lorry driver! Focus, stop now please:)
Pat
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And it was that advert that made me decide to swap places from the Reps company car to being a lorry driver!
You did what? Blimey I knew woman were completely bonkers and round the bend but I ask yer!
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I hadn't seen the second one Focus and I watched the first one all the way through again, and I have to confess..........................
Yes, there isn't one of us out there who hasn't driven a lorry through the night, dreaming of those 3 or 4 trailers behind us, those chrome twin stacks, that enormous cab and actually 'heard' that big V8 throbbing away:)
Pat
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We getting our continents mixed up there Pat
Or was the advert set in Australia?
3 or 4 trailers?
=Road train
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I was referring to the You Tube Convoy clip but although I hit reply to that thread it still appeared at the bottom!
Pat
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If you look at the threaded view:
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=79014&...t
perhaps it makes it clearer what has happened.
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To clarify, looking at the threaded view, if you now reply to your 10:32 post, hopefully you can see that it will appear before your 10:29 post. But if you reply to your 10:29 post, it will appear right at the bottom.
EDIT: see AE's last post
Edited by Focus {P} on 06/10/2009 at 12:32
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I was musing on why tractor units were so unaerodynamic and slab fronted. Why couldn't a tractor unit be low slung, about the height of a people carrier so that the trailer could overhang the cab?
That way the overall length would remain the same but you could get an extra bit of trailer capacity overhead. The low slung unit would look similar to the heavy shift trucks used to tow aircraft.
The cab could be made smaller too with room for two people instead of a full width cab. Invariably you often only see one driver so why all that wasted space in the current design?
I'm sure you could even include sleeping room in the space. if it were cleverly packaged.
If you had a low slung tractor unit you could also slope the trailer to make it go through the air better. Maybe this could save a few gallons each journey which over a year could add up.
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A lorry with a bonnet is "normal control";without it's "forward control.In the US a forward control is a "cabover". ie.a "Cabover Pete" is a forward control Peterbuilt.About the only normal controls seen in the UK now are Volvo.
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>>So why are there so few?
They are more expensive
They are heavier
They are longer
They are less practical
So, the only time when it might make sense to use one is if you are carrying something that isn't using all of the vehicle's payload, isn't using all of the available length within the UK legislation, and where the "image" of a bonneted truck is worth the premium.
These considerations rule them out of most sensible specifications, and as they are such an unusual truck in the UK, i.e., with right hand drive, to obtain one, you'll need to make a special order.
As these trucks are so rare in the UK, any spares you need which are specific to the bonneted truck could see you off the road, losing money, waiting for them, where the conventional parts will be off the shelf.
IMO, they are rather an ego driven purchase in the UK.
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>>IMO, they are rather an ego driven purchase in the UK.
Like this well known example.
farm1.static.flickr.com/56/147761015_47b5c0302e_o....g
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I was musing on why tractor units were so unaerodynamic and slab fronted. Why couldn't a tractor unit be low slung about the height of a people carrier so that the trailer could overhang the cab?
Ask gordonbennet. He's been driving such a beast for years, we call them "car transporters" in the haulage industry. ;-)
Further to that, Mick, you'll appreciate that if the trailer overhangs the cab the driver can't see where it is, specifically the top corners. Doesn't make for easy manouvering!
I used to drive those low-cab trucks occasionally up at East Midlands Airport; the ones with the hydraulic hoist used for replenishing the aircraft. Not nice to drive on public roads, trust me.
A vehicle like yours would indeed have an increased cubic capacity, much like furniture vans have, but weight distribution would be another problem. If it was possible I think it would have been done by now.
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. Invariably you often only see one driver so why all that wastedspace in the current design?
That "wasted space" is what some of us call home in the week!
As for having a "peak" over the cab, as GB says, I reckon that would sort the men from the boys, particularly in towns.
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>>..in about 30 minutes.>>
Why did it take so long?
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>>..in about 30 minutes.>> Why did it take so long?
Answering a question consists of at least:
1. Getting around to reading the question.
2. Deciding whether sufficiently interested to find answer to question.
3. Obtaining the answer to the question.
4. Deciding whether sufficient;y public spirited/bothered to post answer in reply.
5. Posting the answer in a reply.
Does that answer your question? :-)
EDIT: and I should have added while supposed to be working :-o
Edited by Focus {P} on 06/10/2009 at 15:51
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>>Does that answer your question? :-)>>
Not really.
You've just proved you can do it in 12 minutes...:-))
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I've posted this before, but seems appropriate to give it another airing.
Up to about 1960 or 61 I did a lot of hitch-hiking and went many miles in trucks up and down the old A1 and elsewhere. In 1960 hitched to Spain and back.
After the noisy, stressed little high-revving engines of low-geared British lorries, right there in the cab with you complete with much waste heat and plenty of diesel mist, the Unic and Berliet lorries in France were a revelation. Their engines were much bigger, slower-revving and stuck out in front of the cab. Instead of the five crash gears here, their many speeds - eighteen or so I seem to remember in some cases - were changed remotely by some sort of pneumatic system with a pleasing hiss.
You could talk in a normal voice about politics, didn't get knackered or hypnotised by the hammering of a five-cylinder Gardner or similar, didn't reek of diesel afterwards and would arrive in the South of France with a ravenous appetite for oysters (or so one lorry driver did anyway). Those trucks weren't governed to 38mph either.
I know these things were the result of different laws, regulations and tax systems, but the French scene was so vastly preferable I couldn't understand why people weren't lobbying for it here. I suppose our trucks are more civilised these days though.
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Bonneted trucks, yes very nice, roomy usually log wheelbase so much smoother ride, and if you are travelling the open freeway at 80 to 100mph much of the day they are in their element, no doubt cars drivers there don't play chicken with them or cut in front and brake hard.
Put them in a UK town or tight loading area with people cars debris signs bollards walls equipment etc to tight manouevre round and they are of little use, and on our congested roads the lack of forward visibility is dangerous.
Remember in the USA trucks don't have brakes only air horns we've all seen the films...child/old lady crossing road backing away from mad axe murderer...bonneted truck comes down road unable to brake only blast hooter..;)
There was a US manufacturer who sold a few of their trucks here years ago, at the commercial show (Olympia ISTR) they had to borrow a DAF i think it was (might have been Volvo) to enable getting the trailer onto stand and then reconnected, their monster truck being too unweildy to perform the job itself.
I do have part of the structure over the cab which is usually low line on car carriers as you can get a tilted car over the cab and another nosed in under.
As is the norm now, my truck body is fixed to the tractor so the load above stays inline on turns.
I did have an articulated transporter for some years, they really do sort you out, if you've never seen one on a tight turn it's quite frightening if you're in a car underneath when the tractor turns and the trailer continues on about 15 ft or so and then suddenly makes an increasingly tight arc over the car then sideways then swiftly catches up with the tractor as the vehicle straightens.
They are being phased out thanks to our European masters, pity really as those capable (not many) were always in demand.
Not saying where or when, but a couple of us have sat in the 'peak' car whilst being piloted by someone we had absolute faith in...beats the hell out of a roller coaster for excitement..;)
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Maybe of slight interest. In New Zealand they all seem to be bonnetted trucks, all seem to be huge, all no most ,tow a trailer as big as the truck, and I'm damn sure there is no top speed limit on them.
Odd place. I believe they can drive from 12 years of age as well. I'll go and check that now.
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OOps, sorry. It's 15. I've never seen so many tyre burn-up marks on country crossroads in my life. Odd that.
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Regarding space in lorry cabs BTW; American trucks might look wonderful on the outside but to have any sort of decent sleeping accomodation the tractor units are themselves as long as an 8-wheeler tipper is in the UK, and have a big box tacked on to the back of the cab to accomodate this. On the posher versions they have showers and loos incorporated as well. Most British truckers are lucky to get a cold-water wash at night.
Have a look inside one of the modern sleeper-cabbed DAF, Scania or Volvo artics commonly used in the UK and you'll be amazed at how well all the space is used. It has to be, because that is often the driver's home for the week (and sometimes longer) and since the overnight parking facilities for HGV's are so pitifully inadequate in this country he has to make best use of it.
Oddly enough, whilst the American sleeper compartments are usually luxurious the driving cab itself is often rather narrow and cramped, especially on the older models.
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