Is supermarket fuel truly any worse than the named brands? Given that it sells at the same price (remember the days when it was a bargain?) can we not believe that it is just the same?
I ran my car solely on Tesco's for 1K miles, then 1K miles on Texaco only, and discerned no difference in peformance and 0.2 mpg on fuel economy (which may have been down to mix of driving). I know it's only 1K miles on each, but it's at least an attempt to be objective. I may, of course be missing the point by looking at fuel consumption, as the long term effects may be what matters.
I know there's a flood of anecdotal evidence going to deluge into this thread, but does anyone out there have any definitive evidence? Are there any websites (like the ones about engine oil additives) that try to give an objective view?
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During the last fuel crisis HJ revealed that the fuel companies swap fuel around between themselves, so some fuel sold as 'Esso' may actually be someone else's anyway. Is this true generally?
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I have used supermarket fuel almost exclusively in a car for 90,000 miles and a motorbike for 80,000 and have had absolutely no adverse symptoms that I am aware of.
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Cliff
Yes, oil companies do trade fuel, and I've never seen a Tesco or Sainsbury's refinery yet despite the fact they have 40% (I think) of the market! There's no doubt that all Shell's fuel, for example, does not come exclusively from Shell refineries, and the same is true of other suppliers.
Despite the 'evidence' on this site, I've used supermarket fuel for years, mainly because they typically keep prices at the lower end of the market and because I get Sainsbury's points. I've used it in a variety of cars, and never had any fuel related problems yet (and my last car did nearly 80k miles). Now, it may be that the times I used non-supermarket fuel (usually Esso, as they tend to be at the lower price end) that saved the day, but frankly I doubt it. But, if the odd tank from non-supermarket sources is all it takes, then I'll happily save the money and continue to use supermarket fuel when I can.
Regards
John
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The only difference I've noticed is that Esso diesel doesn't tend to foam so much when I fill up my tank.
I give Texaco a wide berth - they always seem to charge at least 2p over the
odds wherever you go in the country.
/john
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Years ago there was an article in one of the broad-sheets about a scientific appraisal of this very subject.
I think the testing was carried out by Ricardo Engineering (don't know if I've got the name correct).
There were photos of internal engine parts where the engines had been run on cheaper fuel (no guarantee of good levels of detergent) and a larger brand (Texaco, Shell and the like). The engine running on the cheap fuel appeared to have a high level of residue whilst the other one was clean. It was pretty convincing, especially since if it weren't true then I'm sure court cases could have been brought by cheap fuel producers or suppliers.
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We ran a Fiesta about fifteen years ago that had the instructor using it complaining that it ran like a dog. On finding out she was filling up at supermarkets, we advised her to change to a regular brand of petrol, and the problem disappeared.
To be fair, I think that since then the quality of supermarket fuel has improved, as I have used it from time to time without ill effect. If my memory serves me right, were the reported problems only with four star petrol?
Tom
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I used to work for Shell, and I can tell you that Sainsbury's tankers are regular visitors to their distribution depot in Buncefield, Herts. I don't believe there's any difference - I suspect that people who think their engines run better on branded fuel are experiencing the 'placebo effect'!
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Ian wrote:
> I suspect that people who think their engines run better on
> branded fuel are experiencing the 'placebo effect'!
A product that makes people *think* their car go faster is every bit as marketable as one that actually does...
...and gives th euser the same benefit.
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All I can tell you from a subjective point of view is that when I come across a typical set of symptoms i.e Sticking valves, poor injector performance, lack of power, pinking and running on, the common denominator with most of the vehicles is supermarket fuel has been used. The problem seems more acute if the vehicle is used for short/slow journeys, a 300k+ miles cavalier I service regularly which is driven VERY hard seems to do OK on T****s fuel although it is a carburetted version. However his wifes car, a 92 214 Rover, is starting to suffer with sticky valves on the same fuel.
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The point is that sometimes supermarket fuel is Texaco or Shell, but other times it isn't.
HJ
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Andrew,
Perhaps you have something here. Is it the type of motorist who uses supermarket fuel rather than the fuel that has the greatest effect? You know the sort of consumer who waits for a dry tank and empty cupboard to make it worth a trip to T---o for the fuel and "two for one" offers on cat food.
The rest of the time they only pop out to the village hall to do the cleaning rota, and so in turn gum up everything in the engine with these short runs.
And the long haul motorist maybe buys fuel when the tank is low without time to search out the supermarket site.
...........Clicks on Post and waits for a salvo of tartan blankets and those tea makers that plug in the cigar lighter socket.
David
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Definitely food and fuel for thought!
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As I was involved in many debates with the manufacturer and owner regarding sticking valves and supermarket petrol - I agree with Andrew that the majority of cars suffering from this warm-up misfire (Classic symptom of sticking exhaust valves) we only 'shopping cars' which did not get any high speed use and probably never attained full operating temperature.
The cure was to remove and fully strip the cylinder head, ream out the valve guides (to increase running clearances) and to fit modified carbon break exhaust valves. All was well on ALL vehicles. I personally don't think that there is any difference between supermarket and, say Esso fuel nowadays.
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No but at least with my theory of buying the Esshelaco from the local garage at the same price I support local business.....and rural services.
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If your local garage charged as much as mine - once making the papers as the dearest garage in Britain - you wouldn't support him!
Regards
john
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A thought...............I use Esso fuel simply because it is sold from a private Garage Owner about a mile up the road. This is at the same cost as the local S/
markets that charge currently 78.9p. I prefer to put money in his pocket to the big concerns. The reality of rural life is that small operators are being squeezed out. And there is always a benefit that when there are supply probs. the small local garage will remember your face/name to the others you don't even register.
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Amen to this sentiment! I also prefer to use the local BP garage in preference to Tosspots (sorry, Tesco). Same price but, more importantly - it is their bread and butter. Supermarkets will steal business from anybody until they have the market captive - then watch what they do with prices.
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My local Esso station has just turned into a Tesco Express but the pumps are still branded Esso. Does this suggest a connection between the two companys distribution networks?
BTW. I think the point about Supermarket customers and their driving habits is more likely to be correct. It sounds more likely that the type of driver who is hard on their engine (short journeys) is also the type of driver who habitually fills up in the same place (such as a supermarket). Maybe they do this at the same time as the 1 mile trip to the supermarket. In my local area there is a BP and Esso and a tesco station and there is rarely more than a halfpenny difference in the prices.
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Just to throw my opinion in (just like my brothers seem to be doing), I tend to use Tesco for my fuel. Granted, my Citroen AX may not be a sophisticated fuel injected turbo 24V V6 beast but I notice no degredation in what performance I get.
Plus, Tesco have those neat little 'Pay @ Pump' devices, which saves me a hell of a lot of time and bother, rather than dealing with the miserable till women.
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Rule 1 in Science and Engineering.
Only quote a figure that you can realistically be expected to have measured within the abilities of your methods.
0.2mpg???????????
Come on - please. What are you doing? Driving around with a NAMAS Accredited measuring cylinder attached to your fuel pump?
MPG as measured by fuel guage/speedo/stopwatch/white pebbles is just not accurate enough for that statement and so slap-dash as to make a comment like that laughable.
I would go with 1mpg +/-5mpg - i.e could be 6mpg worse or 4mpg better.
i.e. NO CASE TO ANSWER M'LUD.
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Hey don't knock white pebbles.........people use them for measuring all kinds of performances :- Bank Accounts, Mortgages, Hospital waiting lists, School Performance Indicators, Vascar settings, Endowment Policies, Foot and Mouth outbreaks, spouse selection,cost of Millennium Dome, Lottery numbers Railway timetables,. Second thoughts chuck 'em back in th lake.
PS much as I hate to admit it Guy's right.
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Oh dear, I will apologise for my Brother's replies before I am tarred with the same brush!
Too much information, perhaps?????
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Guy,
I'm basing it on the dashboard indicator over the 1000 or so miles. No, I didn't calibrate it and measure fuel samples at identical temperatures - I didn't even check to make sure that fuel pump displays were exactly accurate when I filled up. However, it's likely that any errors were present for both measurements, so my implication that there was no significant difference was valid.
Rather than scorning, tell us how YOU would do it.
Vin
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I think how to measure fuel consumption accurately was covered in mind blowing detail two weeks ago, I can't face it again
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Ref "Guy's right" -
Guy lambasts me for breaking engineering rule number one, then breaks rule 2 ("Don't make up arbitrary figures") by stating that my figures are plus or minus 5mpg. Where does that figure come from, Guy?
The point, surely, is that *for comparison purposes only*, the dashboard indicator is probably consistent enough between measurements to give a reasonably accurate figure. My comment about 0.2 mpg was not intended to state that there was a significant difference: exactly the opposite; it was intended to state that there was no significant difference.
And, before someone makes another incorrect guess, yes, I am sad enough to have checked that the dashboard indicator is reasonably accurate (through use of the methods outlined in painful detail elsewhere). For the sake of pedants everywhere, it was one check under strictly non-laboratory conditions and no conclusions should bedrawn as to long (or short) term changes in accuracy.
Finally, and to get back to the point of the thread, anyone got anything but subjective evidence that supermarket fuel is worse than branded?
There seems to be an assumption through this thread that supermarkets are filthy bloodsuckers who will sell any kind of petrol as long as they make a profit. Probably true, but I'd suggest that the major oil corporations are no different.
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