Forget the Green bit in a way, I'm also after the Mean part of this product, i.e saving money on ever rising petrol & diesel costs at the pump. I'm very persuaded to get a Hydo unit from hydrotechnix (www.water-fuel-hybrid.moonfruit.com) but I'm still a little nervous. Does anyone have any experience of how well these work and if they last?
For an investment of several hundred pounds (including the EECU to combat my ECU) I think I'm looking at a 2 year payback if I get 20% imporvement in fuel efficiency (25,000 miles and £1.05/l)
Has anyone had any insurance issues?
Are they removable to move to a replacement car when the current one finally pack in, hopefully in 8-10 years more at least.
Many thanks, in advance,
Robin the percussionist
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Surely someone must be out there to comment.
Anyone?
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I don't think you will better the diesel fuel consumption - driven sympatheticaly.
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Surely someone must be out there to comment. Anyone?
Robin
None of us have one, none of us are intending to get one.
I think that says enough.
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sounds a bit nonsense to me.
I wouldnt touch it.
A good diesel well maintained and driven smoothly is the way to go.
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Adding a stream of propane or LPG is well documented to have a similar effect on a diesel, and is used a lot in diesel based motorsport.
Maybe hydrogen is just another way of doing this?
www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=diese...n
Edited by Hamsafar on 02/10/2009 at 10:38
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You get one Robin, then let us all know how it goes......me I just love pseudo science.
Love the bit about HHO gas (chuckle)......and the bit about it not breaking the laws of physics, specifically thermodynamics (titter).
The only "useful" gas that system produces is from the resellers bottom, and there it's only function is pressure relief. Gosh, hope this doesn't count as name and shame?
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......And they probably sell Snake oil as a replacement to fill the sump.......
I'm with you on that one, Daveuk.
Robin the Technician
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It is not unknown for the co-injection of water into combustion chambers to have beneficial properties, e.g. reduction of NOx emissions. This is more for turbines than car engines though.
BIG
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They are not talking about water or steam, but this weird stuff they call HHO gas, which apparently is not as explosive or dangerous as Hydrogen gas ;-~
Perhaps chemistry has changed since I was a lad, but I did think 2 parts of Hydrogen and 1 part of Oxygen gas was a chemically correct mixture for complete and optimal combustion and the mixture being a tad more dangerous than Hydrogen gas.....
Ahh, but there is science and science....
We need to get some of that other stuff it's similar to unobtanium...err that's it Cavorite, simply make our car bodies from that metal and we can use a lot less fuel...coupled with the other guys inventions using the magic of HHO gas and a 1.5 volt battery, we should be able to power a car for.....ohh ages. ;-)
Connect a generator to the engine and we can charge the battery whilst driving, so that it never runs flat.
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Surely HHO is water???
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Surely HHO is water???
In the context where the scam site talks about it, only when it burns and become H20 with a large release of energy, usually in the form of a loud bang ;-)
Edited by davecuk on 02/10/2009 at 19:54
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Surely HHO is water???
DihydrogenOxide can cause drowning, helps grass grow and can be used to flush toilets (which is where your money goes)
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Adding a stream of propane or LPG
www.tinleytech.co.uk/diesel-caution.html
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Wheres Robin then, joins forum, makes 2 posts all about this device at the beginning of this thread.....but gone all silent.....perhaps he has bought this wondrous device and is out there saving the planet?
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Hi,
I found this forum while looking for a VW for myself and I found it very interesting.
I have been involved with the instalation of hydrogen fuel cells for a few years now after reasearching it at university nearly over 10 years ago.
I run a company which installs the units to many tyoes of vehicle and have had some very successful results.
Im a VW fanatic myself and have a TDI Caddyvan, I also own a few classics.
I have a system fitted to my 72 beetle and it has had great results and also my van which works great, much better then the petrol engine.
I have to agree there are hundreds of scams out there, Ive bought and read lots of stuff on the net over the years as I like to see what the competition is like.
Most of it is very old technology and can ruin your engine big style. Ie if in an accident or being installed correctly.
Some even use more power to run it then to not have one at all.
I do agree through the first year of installing the unit people just dont belive you about the unit, I didnt belive it at first but still needed to know for myself if it worked or not.
There are products out there which really work, I am not in any way going to mention any names but we use a company who are leading the way in this technology and there well into 4 figure numbers for installations in the last few year.
Think what you want about the system, I have been amused by some of the comments and even the scam link which actually stated a few facts wrongly but I do agree with quite a bit of the page as there are as I said before many units on the market, ebay etc who are selling rubbich, even home made systems and diy kits from instructions.
All I can say is the system does work, if it is the correct system and installed properly.
I run them myself and as a daily job working with councils and hire companies install them every day.
The results are good, and although there are claims of massive gains they are mostly false, the gains can be up to 50% in mpg and up to 95% in cutting emmissions.
mostly there is a 20 - 35% gain which isnt a massive ammount but its better then nothing.
I hope I have put accross a fair point to the forum.
If anyone has any questions on the system then feel free to ask.
This technology has been around fr a long time, if abused it will never work, if used correctly it works great.
Just to add I will be entering my Beetle into the next seasons drag racing with our local club mambers as we will be running it on a double system and tuning it to run as close to 50% HHO as possible through manually tuning the carbs.
Thank you
Steve
{link snipped. As per the T's & C's of this website, you need to ask HJ's permission before you start promoting anything you're connected with}
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 15/10/2009 at 02:14
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Hi I found this forum while looking for a VW for myself and I found it very interesting. I have been involved with the instalation of hydrogen fuel cells for a few years now after reasearching it at university nearly over 10 years ago.
Well they said our standard of university education was dropping....I guess the rot must have started "nearly over" 10 years ago.
Thank you Steve for helping us understand how to break the laws of Physics. your next move will undoubtedly be the perpetual motion machine, or perhaps a Zero point module for cars.
Edited by davecuk on 15/10/2009 at 02:25
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I was putting in a fair comment about people not understanding the system.
You obviously are un educated yourself if all you can do is put someone elses comments down when your not so clever yourself.
There will always be people like you about but I suppose it cannot be helped.
If anyone has any serious questions and not childish remarks then feel free to ask
Edited by Hydrodrive on 16/10/2009 at 10:15
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Well I shall stand back for fear of being killed in the rush, as people ask questions in preparation for fitting one into their car ;-)
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"run them myself and as a daily job working with councils and hire companies install them every day."
And these are? I'd be interested to know if my Council Tax is being wasted.
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Why dont you look up on the net about the conjestion charge in london. You do relise you get a heavy discount having one fitted to your vehicle dont you.
Instead of putting what I say down try doing some homework on the system and stop being a child.
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Why dont you look up on the net about the conjestion charge in london. You
The battery in my car produces hydrogen when it is charging. Maybe some of that finds its way into the engine and that is why I do not pay the congestion charge. No..... sorry its because I do not drive in London.
This thread is about nonsense-psuedo-hydrogen-cells, not about genuine hydrogen cells.
The congestion charge refers to hydrogen cells. Not the internal combustion engine with psuedo-hydrogen nonsense that this thread started with.
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ok, I dont know what I am doing and I dont know my job. hell I dont even think my meetings with people and my contracts dont exist. or maybe my milage is false and someone comes every night and fills up my van with diesel for me (thanx diesel fairy)
I may be living in a dream world where everything is soft and bouncy.
I think I will leave you to your forum and I will get on with my work and maybe some day you will look back on this moment and think well I hate to admit it but that guy was right.
LOL
Laters!
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My question is whether manufacturers install this technology to cars as standard. I have only heard of waterboost before, and I assume this technology works equally. Are there any long term draw backs with this technology? As with a lot of 'non-standard' items, there are always pro's and con's.
G
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Mfrs installing as standard? Nil response on that! Biggest drawback is that this sort of stuff relies heavily on anecdote and faux science. Nothing provided to back claims. Nothing checked independently. Predictable squealing from the scammers when basic questions asked.
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Hmm, Laws of physics? Physics is very much a boundary science.
Any theory can be proven wrong. For example: Many physicists consider quantum theory to be incorrect nowadays and are searching for alternatives. For example imagine a car moving in space. According to Einstein, if make the car move extremely fast, it will begin to shrink. According to Newton it will stay the same regardless of velocity of the car. Thus we have two competing theories. Some will say Newton's theory is true and Einstein's theory is true, and superficially this statement appears to be true, but is in fact false.
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Hmm Laws of physics? Physics is very much a boundary science. For example imagine a car moving in space. it will begin to shrink. According to Newton it will stay the same regardless of velocity of the car. Thus
The theory that a car will shrink in space may explain some of the very small parking spaces (boundary science) in supermarket carparks.
Newton would made a better supermarket carpark designer. The spaces in many car parks maybe were designed by Einstein. Thankyou for clearing that up.
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Yes physics is a strange subject.
As for parking spaces hows this one for size?
2.bp.blogspot.com/_kC-xMfO9utQ/RvzNSkU1s9I/AAAAAAA...g
Back to the supplemental fuel cell.
There are pros and cons with everything, there are agreed to be more cons out there then pros otherwise it would be so easy to modify your car for cheap.
There are many cheap systems out there that claim to make your car go really fast and cost you nothing.
Does the turbonator ring any bells? I saw this while looking for a supercharger for one of my cars i was building for a race a few years ago.
I had a long look into it and it just dosent work as no matter how powerful the fan is there is just not enough airflow to make any difference to the normal asperation of the carbs.
There are 100's of hydrogen systems out there I see a new kind nearly every day.
Just one look at them and I can tell how they will work.
The build quality etc has to be spot on, the quality of the metals used has to be right, the plastics have to be of a good quality and resistant to the hho as some plastics can have a chemical reaction and have negative effects.
As it is thought there are ones that work to benifit the engine as it has gone through independant tests using many different materials to get the desired result.
I run one on my van as I say, its been on enough time to get results and Im pleased with them as I ran the van over a year before it was fitted. I get great results, not as much as I would like and as there all advertised as getting but I get enough and yes it saves me a few pennies.
I worked out it would take about 6 months to come even with the price of fitting it to the milage and fuel cost and it is I do admit going to take a bit longer. Probs about just short of a year.
But on the otherhand the emmissions have gone down by a very large amount so at least I am doing good for the plannet and lowering my carbon footprint as they say.
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"As it is thought there are ones that work to benifit the engine as it has gone through independant tests using many different materials to get the desired result."
Citation? I've only seen anecdotes.....
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Whereas tests by Cambridge Uni show a 2% loss of efficiency, apparently. The set-up which was the subject of the report below, showed no effect. Not good for an outlay of £700 including "modifications " suggested by the maker :) news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8313832.stm Programme on the BBC tonight: Inside Out (BBC East) on BBC One at 1930 BST on Monday, 19 October.
Edited by nortones2 on 19/10/2009 at 16:24
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www.corrosion-doctors.org/Forms-HIC/embrittlement....m
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This is a great demonstration of some of the old technology and rubbish out there. Right from the start you see the cylinders, any system with these is a no go and not at all effective.
The reason for this is they hold the water (wet cell) and run a coil of stainless steel through the centre.
The surface area of this steel coil is not enough to produce the ammunt of gas needed. Even if the cylinders were double the size it still would not be anywhere near effective enough to make a difference and even at the size they are it is impossible to fit them in most cars.
Take note from the clip " that technology does not work" there right.
I have no complaints aboutit at all. I have tested these myself and there a joke. need I say more.
The thing they dont mention is there are 2 types and although they used the wet cell for there test they migh not have known about the new dry cell.
I use the drycell type in my van just to point out.
As for the article about the problems with storing hydrogen and the effects it has on metal. Your not storing it so the hydrogen hasnt got time to to have any effect on the metal.
The problems occur when the gas is kept at a pressure. there is no pressure in the unit and by the time it gets to the engine it is mixed or diluted down so again has no chance to take effect.
There is one point i would like to mention.
Through some of the tests in the last few years on the unit we use, we did find problems with the seals being corroded after time and continued use.
We have now after many attempts we found a material which is resistant to this problem and its now solved.
The main problem is the minerals in water, some waters have a lot and some are quite pure.
The minerals are like limescale in a kettle and severly damage the unit.
In all circumstances you must use distilled and good filtered water to prevent this.
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could you recommend any good websites for this equipement and some training courses if possible
cheers
phill
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