Just returned from a wet week in the Lake District. I drove SWMBO Hyundai Getz 1.4l over the Wrynose and Hard Knott passes a couple of times. Glad we?d taken a small car because those roads are extraordinarily narrow and difficult.Had to keep an eye out for passing places and oncoming vehicles constantly. Could not get beyond first gear on the steepest parts, the engine just lost power if I tried to change up up. The front wheels appeared to be bouncing around on the wet and rippled tarmac, even when keeping the revs down to 3000 or so in order to make progress. Charging positively at the 1 in 3 bends and keeping the speed up seemed to be the best way.
Amazed that older cars ever coped with going up and down these roads with drum brakes and poorer cooling systems. Lots of brake fade and boiling radiators I?ll bet. Hyundai had no problems- just a bit of clutch pong when I?d to reverse out of the way for an oncoming vehicle.
What?s the best car to drive these roads nowadays? I?m thinking narrow, short, with good brakes and a torquey turbo diesel.
|
I don't know but I used to have a LOT of fun in my pug 205 GTI back in the days when I used to cane it over to Windscale for work!
|
Took my VW T4 camper over Pass of the Cattle to get to Applecross. It's narrow and goes from sea level up to over 2 kilofeet and back down to sea level again, not in all that many miles.
The T4 only has 68 BHP (1.9 diesel, 10 years old) but loads of lovely torque. I had lots of hill starts as stuff kept coming the other way. Other than that it only needed 1st gear in one place because of the steepness. There was absolutely no probs, but it went s l o w ly. Stopped a couple of times in passing places on the way to let stuff overtake.
|
I know the Pass of the Cattle quite well and have taken my BMW bikes up and over it several times. Certainly has the great height rise but not as many tight bends- about four IIRC- and road surface was much better. The English passes are much more intimidating due to the narrowness and steepness.
68HP! the Getz has 95 and even it struggled.
|
Rumour has it that the reason those VW campervans travel in convoys is so's there's always plenty of people to push them up hills!
Down here the tractor boys absolutely hate them, keep getting stuck behind 'em! ;-)
|
|
|
|
Glaikit, did you stop at the top and look round the Roman Fort?
Tis a bleak and windy place I can tell yea. Great views down the valley though on a clear day. First time I ever went looking for the ruins I ended up in the wrong valley. Just when I thought the road couldn't get any steeper I came across Hardknott. Blimey O'Reilly what a road.
I once did it in the fog too which was fun. Some parts are so steep looking out of your windscreen is pointless and you'd be better off with a hole in the floor!
|
Been over the Hardknott many times summer and winter in both directions. The most impressive time to do it is of a summer night when the sheep camp out on the road surface (its warmer than the grass) and the headlamp beams shine out into the abyss instead of round the acute hairpins.
I have driven over all the 9000ft passes in the Alps and the Hardknott is by far the narrowest, twistiest, steepest metalled road over which I have travelled.
|
We travelled west to east over here a couple of weeks ago. Unfortunately the driver in front was so slow I struggled to keep a gap. It's much better to have no-one in front, not so much for progress making as to avoid having two cars looking for a passing place.
We then encountered a driver coming the other way who could neither get near his edge of the road nor reverse 10 yards into a wider stretch. He seemed paralysed by the whole thing. The twenty miles or so took over an hour.
Mrs M doesn't like it much, despite the views, which is why we went back to Ravenglass via Corney Fell - there's a nice road. It was dark by then, and yes, the sheep were all over the road.
I must say the best bit about Hardknott/Wrynose is that it keep most of the tourists away from Eskdale. We did a few days days walking there last week - lovely walks with views of Eskdale and Miterdale that can be done in changeable weather, because the fells aren't too high, and a weekly Ratty ticket to travel between start and finish points. We saw hardly anyone else on our walks.
|
|
|
As a 15 year old I cycled over both the Hardknott Pass and the Kirkstone Pass.
In both cases, cycling downhill was incredibly thrilling and scary in that bygone pre-bungy era.
|
Bagpuss
I worked with a Liberal Councillor (in pre Lib-Dem days) and one evening whilst traversing the Hardknott towards the Duddon Valley on a motorcycle, he failed to take one of the hairpins and went cross-country. He ended up on the road again exactly one hairpin later; somewhat shaken.
|
Cycling or motorcycling on that road definitely does not appeal. Nightmarish.
I stopped at the Roman fort but as it was lashing rain and there just seemed to be a few boulders in a field, we carried on to Eskdale. Had an interesting time on the 12" steam railway. Recommended.
|
|
|
Spospe
One of my memories from the above mentioned teenage cycling expedition is arriving at the bottom of the Kirkstone Pass in Ambleside, having already been across the Hardknott some days previously. The wheel rims on our racing bikes (does anyone still ride those things?) were too hot to touch, which myself and my mates found hilarious. I also found that the bearings in the pedals were more or less shot, as were the wheel bearings.
We cycled as fast as we could wearing only shorts and T-Shirts, no helmets obviously, and weaving around the cars on the way down the Kirkstone.
Parents these days should be grateful their teenage offspring only indulge in recreational drug taking rather than truly risky activities.
|
Great thread, GWS.
In fact, when I read the title of the thread I immediately thought of the Wrynose & Hardknott, and was delighted that it was the subject of the thread.
I drove over it in July 2006. It was worth it for the scenery, and I'd do it again, but I didn't enjoy the drive at all. The petrol engine of our Berlingo coped well enough, but I did suspect that it wasn't the ideal engine for the terrain, and wondered what the best car/engine would be for the journey, and wondered about a Panda diesel.
Yes, we did stop at the Roman Fort, and spent some time there.
|
Here's a good one for you - Gavia Pass in Italy. When we went over it in 1970s it was mainly gravel, but the Renault 4 coped!! (Just - it was spluttering a bit because of the altitude near the top!!)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gFI-JULgyA&feature=fvsr
|
I did the Hardnose in the early 60s on a Tiger Cub,,,200cc....with future bride on the pillion
Last time I did it uphill was a couple of years ago on the BMW. It's quite difficult on a bike as you have to slow down completely on some of the bends whilst trying to maintain traction and keep upright. I'm not sure I'd like to try it on the current bike which has a centrifugal clutch and loses drive below about 1300 revs.
Also done the Stelvio, up and down, on a bike...that wasc interesting !
Ted
|
I have done the Great St. Bernard a few times - much nicer going over the top than through the tunnel.
On one occasion a coach had got stuck halfway around a hairpin bend. The gradient was so steep and the bend so tight that the rear of the coach had grounded and the rear wheels were off the road.
A bit hairy passing him on the verge with a vertical drop off to the side..........
|
Numerous gorges and scary mountain roads and passes with hairpins aplenty in Crete where SWMBO and I have been on holiday for many years.
The roads ( tracks) through the white mountains are spectacular , many have been carved zig zag up and down the mountains with heart stopping drops . we have spent many a happy day in 4WD exploring areas where the only vehicles you meet are goatherds pickup trucks.
This year our holiday villa was literally half way up a mountain. To get to it from the nearest village it was only about half a mile but first gear all the way with a hairpin in the middle but the view fron the terrace was absolutely outstanding.
|
We holidayed in a very hilly part of Italy this year and had a 1.3 multijet diesel engined Grande Punto (The 6 speed one).
The tiny engine was pleasantly torquey and coped well with the hills, though it was fairly noisy and you had to change gear a lot between 2nd and 3rd to maintain progress.
We drove up some glorious winding mountain roads but unfortunately the Punto had a fatal flaw - huge wide windscreen pillars which meant that you couldn't actually see anything at all when going round bends - kind of takes the fun of proceedings when you can't see where the road goes next or if there's anyone coming towards you without leaning right forward to see round the pillar!
|
A couple of years ago we holidayed in the French Alps and traversed many memorable passes. Most noteworthy was the Col Du Galibier at 2,645m which is a famous stage on the Tour de France and thus a mecca for cyclists. We stopped at the summit and our boys joined in shouting encouragement to the brave souls on their push-bikes. I understand that the climb is more than twenty miles to get there.
On the descent it was clear that we were holding up a group of veloists so pulled over to let them pass. They had worked damn hard to get to the top, they deserved their free ride to the valley below. I have to say watching them descend was one of the scariest things we have ever witnessed. Several times I was convinced they would wipe themselves across the bonnet of oncoming vehicles or plummet off the edge of a precipice.
Fortunately they all made it down in one piece and we learned a lot of respect for this hardy breed.
|
Some of those made my legs go funny just watching the video!!
There is no way I do that walk, I'd probably jump off to end it all!!
FTF
|
Went over Hardknott & Wrynose in the early '90s in an'88 F Rover 216S. 1st gear on those was pretty tall and if we'd had to stop we might not have got going again, barring a roll back down to one of the less steep parts!
Someone told me once that they used to test tanks and train tank drivers over those passes in WW2 - is this right?
|
Hardnott & wrynose passes?
pah
they are mere dropped kerbs on a driveway compared to some.
|
|
I remember coming down one of these and my brakes started smoking on my Golf 1.4. Frightened me to death when I saw that the discs were glowing red!
|
When climbing Hardknott in about 1992, in my 10 year old Cortina loaded with 4 strapping 20-something lads and a week's worth of camping gear and food, the exhaust tailpipe caught on the ground on one of the sharp uphill bends! The only way we could make progress without ripping it off was for my rear seat passengers to get out and walk, although one of them promptly reprised his university party piece of laying spreadeagled on the bonnet... Must have looked interesting to anyone coming down the hill.
Dave TD
|
|
Not scary but the brakes were smelling a bit on my brothers Jeep Grand Cherokee coming back from Yosemite once.
|
|
|
|
|
|
