Two options
1/ Buy the cheapest Toyota hilux or any other toyota ute you can get , one that has two month MOT left and wont pass. Drive it to your North african destination and sell it for dollars in Marakesh and fly home.
2/ buy a 3 year old mitsubushi l200 with a truckman top, and drive out and back and keep it in the uk.
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AE has a good point about selling in North Africa after making use for the trip, a lot of old Hilux's and similar go to Nigeria and other countries.
Only trouble with all that is you'll probably be in a poor way after the pounding you'll get from such a vehicle over thousands of miles of rough terrain, you want to enjoy yourselves too.
Nothing wrong with a good auto box in either Landcruiser or Patrol, and you will probably find more choice with the auto option.
The toughest Landcruiser Amazon is the 105 which is basically the 100 series that we know from from about 98 to 2007 with proper steel spring suspension and a live front axle...thats the model used by the UN and the one anybody in really hostile terrain uses.
Unfortunately they are grey imports only as the European spec model is the 100 with independent front suspension (air susp all round) and normal front drive shafts, don't get the idea these are not tough enough, but they can be broken if you try hard enough whereas the 105 will not break.
The LC5's predessessor the Colorado/LC4 would be well up to the job too, it's got the 3 litre 4 pot Diesel and very robust that is too....steel sprung all round, but indy front again.
Patrol's are as you say very good value, and are tough as old boots, for some reason they don't hold the price of the Landcruiser, and i'm at a loss as to why, as they will cope just as well.
There's some good 4x4 forums around and you'll get some good advice where to get obvious and fairly affordable stuff like sump/transmission underbody guards and rock sliders, and uprated springs/dampers.
I confess i would want to stick with either of these makes/models for this trip.
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I would be tempted to go to the lower end of the market, that way if it gets damaged on your trip or proves unreliable then you may be able to sell on your return and not lose a lot.
On the other hand, if you spend 2 or 3 grand on it, and it survives your trip without a blemish then you will want to keep it as it will have proved its reliability to you.
Spend a lot more and it won't be as much of a fun trip, you will always be being wary about your new car that you are planning to keep.
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Having lived in Kenya, I'd go for either a landcruiser, or a mk2 shogun. [Or a hilux pickup or a Surf - essentially the same thing, just different bodies].
If you want something offbeat, you try a landrover 101, but spares can be hard to find.
If you're interested in Landrovers, try frogs island or nene 4x4
Edited by Marlot on 02/09/2009 at 21:08
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Forgot to say in the previous post, the Landcruiser Amazon 80 (up to97) was the strongest for European market, live axles all steel suspension and if you could find one of those with low mileage they can last a long time with a bit of care, very tough.
Rereading your buying choices, if you are going for a keeper don't cross off the petrol version, many Amazons and petrol Colorado's have been lpg converted and the V8 (V6 in Col) engines are sublime...should be some cheap farm lpg sites in Devon too.
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I'd second the Shogun, pick up one for around the £2k mark, or an older Patrol, the 4.2 if you can find it...
Or how about a Shogun Sport?
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I wouldn't go the ownership route - I'd hire. Lots of UK companies offer 4x4 for overseas travel - you may pay £2000-2500 for a month or so, but that's your limit of your exposure.
The 'no worries' route I'd say.
If really don't need a 4x4 now, why persuade yourself you'll need one because you've 'got to buy' one for the holiday?
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If really don't need a 4x4 now why persuade yourself you'll need one because you've 'got to buy' one for the holiday?
holiday won't be too far away from when i'd consider buying one as I will want one eventually anyway...it's just whether or not I keep the one i'd use on the holiday
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I don't know about midlife, but it looks like a crisis where the aim is to impress the even less adventurous at home while avoiding inconvenience away. Any group which can't decide between camping and hotels will not be camping, and is therefore after sanitised adventure with Macdonalds and air conditioning. A Panda should do for that, but the pre-packaged option with American Express and mobile phone coverage would be simpler.
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As you are intending on going to Spain, make sure you do not buy the Pajero variant of the Mitsubishi Shogun. Explanation below:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Pajero
And no offence intended!
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Just make sure you don't use any ex-WD Land Rovers still in camouflage.My daughter got involved with a firm that was going to organize safaris in North Africa.They had a selection of vehicles-the Range Rovers were allowed in but anything looking the slightest warlike was banned.
Edited by jc2 on 03/09/2009 at 14:55
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I don't know about midlife but it looks like a crisis where the aim is to impress the even less adventurous at home while avoiding inconvenience away. Any group which can't decide between camping and hotels will not be camping and is therefore after sanitised adventure with Macdonalds and air conditioning. A Panda should do for that but the pre-packaged option with American Express and mobile phone coverage would be simpler.
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that's a tad harsh William. How about a group of friends that have kept up their friendships for over 25 years since schooldays...fancy a holiday that's a bit different and has a degree of adventure and sort it out yourself, but doesn't want to take on too much, worried that their naivety might get them into trouble. I'm not aware that anyone gives two hoots about what others think. As for not being able to decide whether to camp or hotel, it's not a case of that, it's just that there are fairly polarised opinions, even at this early stage i.e. they can all decide, but the decisions don't coincide...so the initial thoughts are probably a bit of both...(so you can have a good meal and a scrub when it's hotel night)... although the hotelists, might win that arguement. Still got to be a more adventurous holiday than the average Costa del Wotsit package tour, even if purists turn their noses up.
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As it 'appens, now then, now then, I was with a university friend of 39 years duration climbing in the Pyrenees last week.
that's a tad harsh William. How about a group of friends that have kept up their friendships for over 25 years since schooldays.
The thing is, in the event that this trip does come off, the people that are strongly polarised into the hotel persuasion will definitely not be camping. Believe it or not, there actually are people who believe that camping is an unconscionable adventure in itself. Therefore, if they are to come along, it will have to be pretend off-roading- proper roads, but with some sand patches. There was a TV comedy some years ago in which the kitted up adventurers in bedouin dress or camo, with ladders and kitchen sinks aboard the gas-guzzling monstrosity would declare 'let's OFF ROAD!!', before venturing onto Chelsea High St.
I suppose we should be grateful the plans don't include any of the UK green lanes from which we haven't yet managed to ban 4WDs.
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Excellent. Thankyou. Exactly what I had in mind.
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I suppose we should be grateful the plans don't include any of the UK green lanes from which we haven't yet managed to ban 4WDs.
i'd be prepared to take a 4x4 up a green lane....are they not for all to use....
responsibly. Who says some can use and some cannot?
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Therefore if they are to come along it will have to be pretend off-roading- proper roads but with some sand patches. There was a TV comedy some years ago in which the kitted up adventurers in bedouin dress or camo with ladders and kitchen >>sinks aboard the gas-guzzling monstrosity would declare 'let's OFF ROAD!!' before >>venturing onto Chelsea High St.
So not an overly helpful post then, for someone seeking advice and maybe another angle for a holiday....presumably because it isn't raw enough for your tastes? Does that mean rudeness should apply? It's horses for courses isn't it. I wouldn't fancy a holiday in a city, but plently do and enjoy it, what does it matter to me, why should I sneer at their enjoyment?
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in all honesty go for a landy, 110 preferably. more space for stuff and you can sleep in it if you have to. you can get bits nearly everywhere on the face of the planet and if you can't fix it, a local with a gas torch and a hammer will.
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So not an overly helpful post then for someone seeking advice and maybe another angle for a holiday....presumably because it isn't raw enough for your tastes? Does that mean rudeness should apply? It's horses for courses isn't it. I wouldn't fancy a holiday in a city but plently do and enjoy it what does it matter to me why should I sneer at their enjoyment?
Reread it WP....
you yourself said 'Some want full on camping, although some (inc me) are more keen on hotels and similar.'
I think William was trying to be funny, but I do agree with he that IF there are people in your group who dont relish the idea of camping, then they MAY not go through with it - or at least spoil the enjoyment of those who do like camping....
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So not an overly helpful post then
On the contrary- it was a helpful post, but different! There are more than enough people recommending various types of " let's off road!" gas-guzzler, but I was suggesting that for the group as described a Panda would be quite good enough. It is not helpful to encourage a delusion, and it's going to be difficult to get far into the wilds when you have to get back to the hotel for tiffin, and the party isn't prepared for a night out when things go wrong.
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I suppose we should be grateful the plans don't include any of the UK green lanes from which we haven't yet managed to ban 4WDs.
Those are vehicular rights of way. There are not very many of them, and walkers have very many miles of other places they can legitimately go.
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Those are vehicular rights of way.
They are not inviolable rights of way. You will find that there are some in the National Parks and elsewhere where 4WD access has been rightly banned. Foot, bike and horse are the legitimate modes of passage for these historic tracks. In the same vein, motorised water travel at greater than 10mph has been banned throughout the Lake District.
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Wanderlust issue 106 (October 2009)
Book of the Month...Best of the Rest....Chris Scott's 'Morocco Overland' Trailblazer Guides £15.99...''the brand new bible for off-roading to and across this corner of North Africa, with 49 routes covering 10,000 km.''
Hope this helps
regards.
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....Chris Scott's 'Morocco Overland' Trailblazer Guides £15.99...''the brand new bible for off-roading to and across this corner of North Africa with 49 routes covering 10 000 km.''
Sounds ideal, thank you....and thanks to all the sensible responses by others above, as well.
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If you need two vehicles, how about a Land Rover Defender and a Toyota Landcruiser.
The Landcruiser can tow the Defender when it breaks down and the Defender can pull the Landcruiser out when it gets stuck!
Actually, rather than offer advice on what to buy (my choice would be Land Rover Defender), can I suggest that if you have two vehicles, they are both of the same type.
That way you need to carry fewer spares and it's easier to familiarise the combined mechanical brainpower of the team with a single vehicle design.
Edited by Sofa Spud on 04/09/2009 at 20:10
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Could always put a Suzuki Jimny in the LC's boot for when a 'tow-out' is required ;-)
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Could always put a Suzuki Jimny in the LC's boot for when a 'tow-out' is required ;-)
I do like that. Very much in fact as I've just bought an auto. Goes anywhere and towed a transit (non runner) out of a very muddy field.
Wouldn't want to kip in it though!! No not the field you fools.
MD
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QUOTE:...""Those are vehicular rights of way. There are not very many of them, and walkers have very many miles of other places they can legitimately go."" .....and motorists have many thousands of miles of properly surfaced roads to drive on!!!
The vehicular rights can be extinguished, as has happened on some local green lanes in my area. The problem is that the irresponsible element among 4x4 users churn up the surface, making the lane impassable - even for other 4x4 users, let alone walkers or mountain bikers.
I used to go green laning when I had a Land Rover so I know the situation. When 'laning was a hobby for a small band of enthusiasts in old Land Rovers it wasn't much of a problem but the popularity grew and people started using modified vehicles with super-aggressive tyres. The council had a novel solution to one green lane in the area which was badly damaged by 4x4s, trail bikes and horses - they surfaced it - so now you can drive along it in a Ford Fiesta if you want to!!!
Edited by Sofa Spud on 04/09/2009 at 20:20
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The vehicular rights can be extinguished as has happened on some local green lanes
This is interesting. My post supporting this abolition of vehicular rights and expressing a desire that 4WDs disappear off to old industrial sites or East Anglia or the South appeared and then got disappeared leaving no trace, presumably as a result of some pro-4WD decree by No 2 (cf The Prisoner). Maybe you have to expect this on a motoring site. Lets see what happens to this one!
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William,
If I remember rightly, there were a load of asterix's at the bit where you suggested they vacate and travel somewhere else. Maybe you breached the site's swearing policy? Maybe a Mod thought you were a tad abrasive on a site known for its' good manners?
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As it 'appens, now then, now then, I was with a university friend of 39 years' duration climbing in the Pyrenees last week.
Gosh, William, that's an awful lot of retakes. Or were the Mountaineering Society's trips just too good to leave behind?
};---)
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