What`s it`s service history, mileage and current engine oil? (re hydraulic tappets) Has it ever been run on `bio` or been mis-fueled and did the dealer find any codes?
It`s not one of the engines that needed the head gasket job doing from new is it? Just wondering if it`s not got compression (enough) when cold running on one cylinder due to that?
I think the glowplugs are a red herring, ours fires straight up in summer without waiting at all.
(I`m not a tech, just a guy at home working on cars, but I have the same engine in a van, hence the interest)
Hope it`s sorted soon.
Edited by oilrag on 02/09/2009 at 20:08
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A number of possible causes, some already mentioned above.
Did they check the Glow Plugs are actually working ? Just changing them if there is a fault elsewhere won't help. Check the battery is putting out enough charge to heat them and the plugs are actually heating up to operating temperature.
Check if there is a small air leak somewhere along the fuel lines. When a car has been standing for a while fuel can trickle out and air can get into the fuel channels and cause the type of problem you're encounting.
Fuel filter may need changing.
Edited by MikeTorque on 03/09/2009 at 01:41
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It`s likely (mine is) a self priming Bosch pump that purges all of the air from the system when the key is turned to `ignition`
If you change the filter it will purge it of air if you just wait with the key in the above position, although I did it in a couple of 15 second bursts.
That said, I changed the filter on mine at 25, 000 and it looked like new inside and not a drop of water.
There`s a procedure I worked out to change the filter safely (cleanliness) also you have not got to touch the element. It`s an expensive element from Fiat, but the aftermarket filters look poor in comparison. Pop a Halfords filter out of the box and then look at the one Fiat sell.
I also have a Genden code reader that works on a Punto van with the same engine, the basic model with no internal battery. It was under £50 and I keep it in the car.
Edited by oilrag on 03/09/2009 at 06:03
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At the time the fault first manifested the mileage was approximately 27,000. I've had the car from new and it was serviced by the supplying main dealer at the proper service intervals. I have had intermediate oil changes at 6,000, 18,000 and 31,000 miles, these being at Nationwide Autocentres. I've never run the car on biofuel. It was, embarrassingly, misfuelled at about 3,000 miles, but the engine wasn't started up as the mistake was noticed while the refuelling was being done. (Cost almost £200 - expensive error).
Regarding the diagnostic codes, the first time this indicated the glowplugs weren't working. They replaced them and it made a limited and very short term improvement. I have no idea if any codes were found the second time, but apparently FIAT recommended a software upgrade, which made no discernable difference. Because of work commitments and distance from dealer (15 miles) continuously taking the car back was not possible - no courtesy car - so I had to live with the problem for a few weeks until I had an opportunity to take it back for the third time.
Relevant or not, over the last five to six weeks I have also detected a slight but clear knock, which seems to be top-end. This is only evident when the engine is cold, and under load, ie accelerating. As the car nears normal temperature this noise completely disappears. I reported this at the time I took the car back but the dealer claimed not to be able to hear it. All in all, worrying and frustrating.
Thanks to all who have responded - any ideas are gratefully received.
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Have you tried the fiatforum? There are Fiat techs that are members.
You could also contact Fiat customer services.
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Also (with respect) you should push the problem back at the dealer more firmly, insisting on a courtesy car and not letting time slide by. Otherwise it`s going to end up as your problem and not theirs.
Sorry about that ;-)
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I took my complaint to FIAT Customer Services last week, who are 'Looking into the matter' although they have told me that as the car is in the 3rd year 'dealer warranty' FIAT don't pay for the diagnostics - which is why the dealer has quoted me £165 just to do further investigative work.
So far as the courtesy car is concerned, they require advance booking in excess of two weeks, which wasn't an option the last time I was able to take the car in to them. If I can get some resolution from FIAT I may be able to have a courtesy car when the Panda goes back to be investigated again.
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Push them on the courtesy car. Our Aygo needed a new water pump and was told we may struggle to get a courtesy car as they were booked out.
A bit of pushing and a hire car was sorted - this also shortened by some the time we were waiting for the car to be fixed. We were quoted about 4 weeks as the part was on back order, in the end it took a week.
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Hi, I know it’s a very old thread but it came up when I was searching for a diagnosis of my 2012 1.3 jtd engine. Symptoms are exactly the same including the tapping at cold. Fuel economy is down about 20% but it’s sporadic and sometimes it’s spot on. On cold start it fires immediately but after a second it so the rpm is up and down for a few minutes. It’s jumpy and taps quite loud. It’s not smooth on manoeuvring and after a few mins idles fine. I’ve replaced the fuel pump just before all this happened but I checked the fittings and they seem clean and clipped on properly.
Did you get to the bottom of your problem? It sounds the same.
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Hi, I know it’s a very old thread but it came up when I was searching for a diagnosis of my 2012 1.3 jtd engine. Symptoms are exactly the same including the tapping at cold. Fuel economy is down about 20% but it’s sporadic and sometimes it’s spot on. On cold start it fires immediately but after a second it so the rpm is up and down for a few minutes. It’s jumpy and taps quite loud. It’s not smooth on manoeuvring and after a few mins idles fine. I’ve replaced the fuel pump just before all this happened but I checked the fittings and they seem clean and clipped on properly. Did you get to the bottom of your problem? It sounds the same.
Sounds a different problem - I'd say you have introduced an air leak somewhere when replacing the fuel pump - did you change fuel filter as well?
Normally with a new issue I'd ask what was changed just beforehand - think you've already answered that one!
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Hi, yeah it’s currently in for diagnostics, I’ve asked them to change the filter. I will report back.. my bet is on air getting sucked in too, or maybe pressure regulator issue, or even faulty lambda.. just guesses of course. Will see how it is after filter.
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No it wasn’t the fuel filter.. I’ve had comments that it’s either air getting into the fuel system, or water getting in.. it’s not impossible.. but how can I check if it is either of these and rule them out?
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Update :
After fuel filter and ecu reset problem is just as bad as ever. Note that there were no fault codes.
I asked them to do a leak back test and they did say that there was too much at cylinder 1. Sound like an injector problem? Enough to make it drive ok but use 20% more fuel? It’s not the experience I had last time I had a car with a faulty injector.
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I have the exact same problem. Did you find the root cause?
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Hi not yet, I’m going to get the injectors tested as one had a high leak back test result..
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Update : the injector testing came back and they said number 4 was not great and the other 3 weren’t amazing but all should be ok. Number 4 was also covered in carbon around its top so suggested leaking at the washer. I replaced injector number 4. Car starts smoothly from cold now and first impressions are it’s better on the economy. But I need to do some miles to know.
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Just another update for those with the same problem. I drive across Europe in it. Fuel economy back almost where it should be. At an average of non stop 75mph I got 5.1l/100km on the dashboard and 5.3 measured from fuelling. I suspect changing the other injectors (which were stated as not great) would get me down to below 5. But it will do. So in the end, worn injectors. I suppose from contamination or water from being stood so long perhaps.
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