Hidden Speed Limit Signs

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Sun 30 Aug 2009 11:55
Hidden Speed Limit Signs - Simon
Easy question and one I have been pondering on for a week or two...

In a small village not far from where I live you leave a 40mph limit and go into a 30mph limit just prior to where the houses start. Over the last few months the hedges/bushes have been growing out and are now more or less completely covering the 30mph signs on both sides of the road. If you didn't know that they were there then it is reasonable to say that the average motorist would not notice them, they are pretty much hidden.

So the question is - If you were to get caught along that stretch of road speeding would it be unenforcable because the main 'change of speed limit signs' at the start of the limit are not visible? (There are no repeaters, just presumably the distance apart of the street lamps to give you a clue as to the correct limit).
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Sun 30 Aug 2009 12:14
Hidden Speed Limit Signs - Badwolf
I think that you could use it as a mitigating factor, but my guess is that if you appealed, a magistrate would be likely to tell you that the distance between the lamp posts should have led you to believe that it was a 30.

Plus , of course, the '40' repeater signs would no longer be on the lamp posts.

I'm not defending the bushes not having been cut back, as this sort of thing really annoys me. However, ignorance of the law is no defence. Or something...
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Sun 30 Aug 2009 15:42
Hidden Speed Limit Signs - Dwight Van Driver
In Coombes v DPP [2006] EWHC 3263 (Admin), (2006) The Times, 29 December, a driver's conviction for speeding, contrary to the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, s. 89, was quashed by the Divisional Court (following an unsuccessful appeal to the Crown Court) because the road sign imposing the 30-mph limit in question was obscured by overgrown hedgerows, so that it became visible to motorists only at the point where it was passed.

Referring to the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, s. 85 (below), Walker J held that this imposed (at the least) a requirement that, at the geographical point where the motorist exceeded the limit, the signs could reasonably have been expected to have conveyed the limit to an approaching motorist in sufficient time for him to reduce from a previous lawful speed to a speed within the new limit. Motorists should not be convicted of speeding in the absence of adequate guidance


dvd
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Sun 30 Aug 2009 16:13
Hidden Speed Limit Signs - Sofa Spud
I have also come across a situation where a new (and very long overdue) 30 mph speed limit was imposed but signs were only erected on the main A-road, so that if you came into the village along the B-road you would not pass a 30 mph sign. I wonder whether that would have led to mitigating circumstances. Incidentally, signs have been put up now on the B road.
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Sun 30 Aug 2009 16:49
Hidden Speed Limit Signs - Simon
I have just been reading about a case on Pepipoo about a driver who got his conviction over turned just because the speed limit signs were unlit, the main point being that if the signs fail to comply with the strict regulations that are layed down, then that limit is technically unenforcable. I have little doubt that signs hidden by vegitation (from a reasonable point of view) would also fall foul of the regulations.

There is no real point behind my question, I just like to know the in and outs of the law whilst driving about.
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Sun 30 Aug 2009 19:25
Hidden Speed Limit Signs - JH
It's not just speed limit signs that are concealed by vegetation. If you're looking for direction signs they're very often hidden in the hedgerow. I've even seen he big green signs almost completely covered by a hedge. They spend money putting these things up but not a lot on maintenance it appears.

JH
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Sun 30 Aug 2009 22:53
Hidden Speed Limit Signs - fredthefifth

The speed limit where I live was reduced from 40 to 30 a few years ago and I'm still waiting for them to come and move the lamposts!

The bushes aren't being cut back because of council cut backs on spending.

I'll leave the legal stuff for the real experts but I would have though that to be able to observe an instruction you need to be able to see it!

FTF

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Tue 1 Sep 2009 10:06
Hidden Speed Limit Signs - grumpyscot
Ours aren't just covered by bushes but also in thick green slime. I recently reported that on the 30mph signs in our village the red had faded. Give the council their due, they fixed them within a week.

But direction signs they don't bother about, as there is no legal requirement to have them, so they just leave them. And there's one sign just on the entrance to Edinburgh on the A1 that was hit about 8 years ago - we're still waiting for the missing bit to be replaced! (It's also on the most weed covered section of the A1 - typical Edinburgh - spends millions on trams no one wants, and doesn't even try to make the main route into the city look decent.)

I feel a rant coming on................
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