That said would that be 100 miles in Norfolk on a summer day or 100 miles in the Lake District in sub zero temperatures?
...and in the dark? (Would that make much difference?)
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Depends on whether you use the headlights :-)
JH
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Only for rich greenery-yalleries, obviously, but it's quite pretty I think. Of course they would have to have another car for proper travelling, but the Leaf looks as if it would make quite a decent short-range runabout for those with the garage space.
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The Nissan Leaf looks like it's going to be a bit expensive but for a lot of people it looks like a practical proposistion since its only other drawback is a limited range compared to a petrol or diesel car. I think the pure electric car has a significant future as as a city car and particularly as a second car.
Following on the heels of the Lotus Elise - based Tesla electric sports car, a British company is making one - the Lightning GT, which looks rather nice and is said to be very quick.
I've watched one or two Youtube videos of rides in Tesla roadsters and somehow the drama of the car's high performance is enhanced by the way it's delivered with virtually no sound - the car just sounds like it's rolling along.
Edited by Sofa Spud on 10/08/2009 at 16:52
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I believe that it is not unusual in the US to combine two 110v supplies so delivering a European like 220v. I read it somewhere!
I lived in California for a while and can confirm that it is normal for two different phases to be delivered to a house. This is used to power high current items such as ovens.
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Cars are categorised in many ways - price, performance, fuel economy, number of seats, body type etc. But we don't usually categorise cars by range, we just accept that the tank will need filling from time to time. But with re-birth of the electric car maybe we will see the 'range' category becoming more prominent.
For long-range motoring (say 100 miles plus) clearly internal combustion engined vehicles will remain as the best choice, whether with conventional or hybrid drive systems, for the foreseeable future.
For medium and short range motoring, many of the new breeds of electric cars look perfectly viable, if a little expensive to buy.
It would be interesting for someone to undertake a tour of Britain in a battery electric car (probably NOT a G-Whiz!) for a TV programme. Obviously it would involve overnight stops for recharging and each leg of the journey would probably be less than 100 miles. But it would be do-able and they could choose interesting stopping off places.
Edited by Sofa Spud on 10/08/2009 at 17:56
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I think a range of 100 miles would satisfy most people.
According to Nissan consumer research demonstrates that this range satisfies the daily driving requirements of more than 70% of the world's consumers who drive cars.
They add that Nissan LEAF can be charged up to 80% of its full capacity in just under 30 minutes with a quick charger. Charging at home through a 200V outlet is estimated to take approximately eight hours -
Apart from the price it is surely quite an attractive proposition for many.
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"..I think a range of 100 miles would satisfy most people..." ....a lot of the time as long as you've access to another vehicle for the emergency trip to see granny; go out for the day-trip when your horizons stretch beyond a 30 to 40 mile radius; etc. In that context it's a very expensive second car.
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In that context it's a very expensive second car.
When the prices for vehicles like this comes down, as they surely will, it they will be the natural choice as a second car or commuting vehicle. For some people they will be the only car they need. There are a lot of people who drive less than 5000 mile per year all in short hops.
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Better still,a Lands End to John o'Groats race Nissan Leaf v cyclist. 510 miles, record Gethin Butler 44 hours 4 minutes. Rules: standard car with one year old batteries employing all the hypermiling techniques we keep hearing about, one X-Trail size support vehicle, no swapping batteries, ordinary mains supply recharging only, maximum 6 recharging episodes. One superhuman Butler type would probably beat it, team of three pretty good cyclists with all the bananas they can eat, No Contest. I can't see Nissan sponsoring it myself.
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How many of you do more than 100 miles a day almost every day?
Do you all have vans for the one move of furniture a year, of course you don't. When it comes to needing something you don't have it can be rented or borrowed and same when you need a vehicle that will do more than 100 miles.
The 100 miles published is also a realistic number, if you drive more carefully you'll go further. As for the battery leasing for £100 a month, seriously cheap motoring for anyone with a medium sized car doing at least 15k year! You're not buying fuel just electricty at a few pence a time.
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It is remarkable that this tripe about filling up the electric vehicle for 'only a few pence' is trotted out so often, when it's wrong by a factor of at least 10. The famous 100km in a G-Whiz will take about 20kWh (electricity meter units) and I'm guessing the Leaf will take about 30. This costs about £3, and it's unlikely that the foreigners who have been permitted to take over our power industries will allow any 'off peak' tariff if there's money to be made from customers who have no choice. I admit that the cost advantage over hydrocarbon fuel will improve for urban journeys, but there are those of us who want to force people onto buses and bikes for those trips anyway.
The whole idea will remain hilarious until they come up with rapidly swappable battery packs from the equivalent of petrol stations. What do they think will happen to all those charging cables during the night?
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The whole idea will remain hilarious until they come up with chains of petrol stations. What will they do when they run out of petrol. You can buy hay and oats everywhere
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The whole idea will remain hilarious until they come up with chains of petrol stations. What will they do when they run out of petrol. You can buy hay and oats everywhere
Buy it from a chemist's shop!
There is a story about Bertha Benz, wife of automobile inventor Karl Benz, taking her two children in a long trip in the Benz Motorwagen in 1888, from her home to her mother's house.
Bertha was a feisty and resourceful lady.
During the journey she cleared a blocked fuel pipe using her hairpin and part of her garter to insulate a wire. When she ran out of petrol in Wiesloch, she calmly bought bottled petrol from a chemist!
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I was only partially right- Nissan states the battery has a 24 kWh capacity, and it's bound to take at least 30kWh from the mains to fill it. They claim this will power the car for 100 miles, 160km.
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As for the battery leasing for £100 a month seriously cheap motoring for anyone with a medium sized car doing at least 15k year! You're not buying fuel just electricty at a few pence a time.
Although this is purely theoretical for me (my commute is a 110 miles round trip), this is very interesting. The economics of ownership depends on how much it costs to charge the battery.
My medium-sized diesel car does 45 mpg. So I will use 1513 litres of fuel to do 15000 miles. At 1.03 per litre that comes to GBP 1558.
The battery powered car costs GBP 1200 for the lease of the battery, plus the cost of charging the battery 150 times. This would have to be less than GBP 358 in total for me to be in pocket. "Aha!", I hear you say, "but the electric car has lower insurance and road tax". Yes, until we are all riding around in these things, then just watch the rates change so that the Treasury can continue to use the car as a cash cow.
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How many of you do more than 100 miles a day almost every day? Do you all have vans for the one move of furniture a year of course you don't. When it comes to needing something you don't have it can be rented or borrowed and same when you need a vehicle that will do more than 100 miles.
Not sure I believe that argument. People buy cars now with "what if" in mind. "What if I get stuck in the snow, I need 4WD." "What if I crash, I need something huge with a dozen airbags." How often do you crash - once every 10 years, 20, 30? I'd say most people need to drive more than 50 miles away at least once a year
As for the battery leasing for £100 a month seriously cheap motoring for anyone with a medium sized car doing at least 15k year! You're not buying fuel just electricity at a few pence a time.
Hmmm, but once people take up electric cars in any numbers and the tax revenue from petrol & diesel drops off, where are the government going to get their money from?
I'm undecided on the whole charging up at home idea, how many people put a car in their garage on your street - 10%? How are all the others going to charge their cars? Can the national grid really provide enough power for charging several million cars up every few days?
Resolving all these issues will be interesting
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Not sure I believe that argument. People buy cars now with "what if" in mind. "What if I get stuck in the snow I need 4WD."
Some people may but some people may not,
Hmmm but once people take up electric cars in any numbers and the tax revenue from petrol & diesel drops off where are the government going to get their money from?
I'd been in favour of taxing mobile phones (oh they already did that with 3g). Tax funding changes all the time, is it really sensible to get so much from one area, no.
I'm undecided on the whole charging up at home idea how many people put a car in their garage on your street - 10%? How are all the others going to charge their cars?
Japaneese Kei car rules are so sensible we should have them adapted in the UK.
>>Can the national grid really provide enough power for charging severalmillion cars up every few days?
Yes, indeed but I'm sure charging can be designed to take place when demand is lower then usual.
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I'd still rather be in the car than on the bike! :-)
JH
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I believe that it is not unusual in the US to combine two 110v supplies so delivering a European like 220v. I read it somewhere! Perhaps a more enlightened soul can comment?
Firstly, and to correct someone elses comment, this is not "two phases", as they are 120 degrees out of phase. This is "split phase", so 180 degrees apart and thus delivering exactly double the voltage.
A quick wikipedia search will make it clearer.
The great advantage of split-phase supplies is that they are useful where you have loads in series (e.g. two electric 'barn' heaters in series) and thus each will see half the split-phase voltage (i.e. normal voltage) but the cable current will be half than having the two loads in parallel so you can halve your cable size. Of course if the loads are balanced (same current) then you will not need a neutral necessarily.
I've seen it in this country for rural/farm supplies also. Of course here we get a nominal 460V off a supply, and their primary use is for heaters in barns like I mentioned above, rather than electric ovens.
Edited by mfarrow on 11/08/2009 at 08:34
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