No spark at number 1 or 4 plug depending which has longest lead,new plugs,coil pack.bought car non running only 50? here in Algarve.no difference if different leads used always longest lead will not spark.car stood 16 months refitted timing belt,battery, started first turn but will only run on 3 cylinders,can change which plug by changing leads,possible power drop to that side of coil?no diagnostic here and ford dealership very expensive and not good it's all new to them here if your car is British reg they cant supply parts but thats another story they need chassis number for an air filter for Portugal reg car.
Anybody any ideas to above problem
{post amended and SHOUTING returned to normal volume levels}
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 05/08/2009 at 02:02
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Buy some new leads
I said "BUY SOME NEW LEADS"
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If i use a working number 2 or 3 lead and connect to number 1 or 4 coil position they will not fire. But number 1,2 or 3 lead will fire every time on number 2 or 3 position.parts are very expensive here and yes i got the coil pack sent from uk but i cant see how new leads will cure problem when i can change working leads and then no spark am i missing something obvious probably thanks
{Edited again! - it's been mentioned why}
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 05/08/2009 at 02:19
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WE HEARD YOU.
You're using the internet, it removes the need to shout.
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sorry guys first time i've used one of these forums and not very good with computer never mind typing it's a long way from portugal to you so thought i would shout so if i am quiet will it solve my car ptoblems got the message thanks
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Maybe the replacement coil pack is faulty as well !
What I would do is start from scratch because after a while things get confusing.
1) Check compression on all cylinders.
2) Make sure that all plugs leads are connected to the right connections on the coil pack and cylinders.
3) Check all plugs to see that they are all OK and sparking.
4) If 1,2 and 3(above points) are all OK and one cylinder is still missing and all leads work ( checked by swapping over and then back to correct position) the only thing that is left is a faulty coil pack
This assumes that the timing belt is correctly positioned.
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leads are checked with spare working plug if timing is out would that not provide a spark at plug,original coil pack gave same problem thats why i changed it read on this forum before i joined that it was a commen problem thanks
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Shippers, there's a technical forum on this site as well. If you saw mention of this problem previously then it may well be there - you've posted on the discussion board. There is a forum (rather than site) search on the top right of the page - it will let you narrow it down.
Good luck!
Gord
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check the technical board same question there as well tried to cover all angles thanks
{Replies to your same question in discussion moved here. No need to post the same question in more than one forum as all that happens is a duplication of answers, and creates work for us moderators in tidying it all up!}
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 05/08/2009 at 02:21
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Plug leads/coil pack are identical(as are many other parts)for RHD/LHD.For one cylinder to be down it does not sound like leads/coil pack-these would normally let engine run on rwo or four cylinders not three.
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jc2 thats what i thought as well it's lhd.as iv'e said before the common denominator is the length of the lead not which lead it is or where it is,number 4 lead is the shortest so all others when swopped around show same fault at 1 or 4 position on coil thanks
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further update, have noticed the three wires entering coil pack, the outer two the plastic coating has been paired back a couple of mm.would someone have put a meter for a test?would this cause a problem if the copper wire is exposed,thanks
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& the compression test readings are???
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right bigtee can you explane why possible low compression would cause no spark at number 1 plug and then when you swop leads number 4 plug when i say no spark this is using a working plug on lead not plug in cylinder head am i missing something obvious thanks for comments keep them coming! out in the sticks here in portugal local garages solution to anything electrical is faulty battery
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yes
it would blow the output stages in the ecu if they shorted
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thanks bellboy when i say wont spark using aux plug ,not firing i would look at valves compression etc,if t belt out would it affect spark ,last owner used other ecu no change,stripped belt off but i assume could not find t marks ,we set up didnt have crank tool ,used flat bar didnt touch pully ,tdc,turned by hand ,engine locked ,re did ,turnd 2 by hand ok,if ecu faulty would it give low power to coil on 1 and 4 side but seect longest lead in either 1 or 4 position on coil pack thanks
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sorry guys last message a bit confusing (been to local cafe)what i meant to say was~
does compression affect spark at plug
number 1 will fire and run with short lead number 4 wont with longer lead
swop leads number 4 will fire and run with short lead number 1 wont with longer lead
is this an ecu problem
if the ecu sends power or signal to the coil pack and the 1 and 4 side output from ecu was faulty why when i swop leads around does the fault move?
thanks again Rob
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Well lets see:
The same cylinder never has a spark
all the others do
The ecu is ok
the leads are ok.
Therefore by deduction.. the coil pack is faulty.
Try replacing it.
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thanks madf
its not the same cylinder its either 1 or 4dependingg on which one has longest lead fitted
swop the positions on the coil pack same result
thanks rob
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I suspect the coil pack's internal insulation is failing and cannot provide the voltage needed for longer leads.
Try another one: lots in scrappies.
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thanks madf
live in portugal scrappies few and far between
original coil pack had same fault bought new coil pack on ebay same fault
thanks rob
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a cracked or corroded crank sensor could be causing mixed messages here
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thanks zookeeper
where can i locate sensor have never owned a fiesta before bought this as nonrunner from freind who returned to uk
thanks Rob
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have a shuffty down by the clutch housing... tward the right as you stand in front of the car looking in, small black cable with a screw holding it in probably a torx head...be careful if you find it ..it could snap off..i had to drill one out a while back, good luck
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thanks zookeeper
cant check till sunday car not at my house
but would crank sensor differentiate and send no pulse or power to the longest lead fitted to 1 or 4 plug
i can make number 1 or 4 cylinder fire depending on what lengh of lead is used
plug leads 1,2, and 3 will work on cylinders 2 and 3 they will not work on 1 or 4
only plug lead 4 will work on cylinders 1 or 4
Thanks Rob
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Crank sensor only sends TDC signal to Module;doesn't differentiate between cylinders-you need camshaft sensor for that and this calibration does not have one-uses "wasted spark".
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thanks jc2
do you mean its not the crank sensor
i know its not the leads
the coil pack will fire 1 and 4 depending on which lead is fitted so is ok
any ideas how to check input to coil pack it seems to me that 1 and 4 side is not strong enough to provide power to spark 2 plugs or is this to simple?a reading on 1 and 4 side should read the same as 2 and 3
thanks Rob
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update
a fellow scot just arrived here in algarve i met in local bar has brought all his diagnostic equip with him.Leads all ok,coil ok but yes long lead will give spark using auxilary plug but spark not stong enough to fire under compression so it was only running on 2 cyl after all he traced it back to the ecu not putting out enough power,i was assuming that if it sparked it fired,you learn listening to the experts!
so need a knew ecu part no xs6f 12a650 pa i see there are lots on ebay and does the last 2 letters have too match
ps transpires barry who ive only just met bought my partners brother calum guys vw golf rally car how abought that scary or what (total cost for above diagnosis 3 beers each 4.80? result!)
thanks Rob
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Yes-the last two letters are MOST important-XS6F-12A650- could be any Fiesta of that age.The last two tie it to that engine/calibration.The PA denotes the calibration for that engine-an update that would still be suitable would have the P but the second letter would change.
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Very common for a faulty coil pack to blow an output stage of the Engine Ecu.A s/hand unit will not get you very far as the Ecu is coded to the immobiliser sytem/chipped key on the car.Your best option is to get the original unit repaired.hth
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Thak´s jc2
Ivé been today to breakers yards (6 hours driving)can get part number down to last didget B not A so reads XS6F-12A65O PB not PA WHAT DO YOU THINK should i buy and try and see,also idon´t think car has immobiliser ,key is normal
daily transport smart fortwo you can´t start that without foot on brake,car in neutral ,you can´t take key out till it´s in reverse,if you leave car with key in it immobilises it´s self, this fiesta is BASIC compared´to my smart ,HELP why would breakers sell ecu that the immobalisers can´t recognise?
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jc2 thanks for your info
just like too add ecu´s i looked at came out of cars same year even same trim level and colour but last 2 letters on code were cb, ab ,pb,etc any ideas?
thanks Rob
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As I said above second digit can change,just minor update-first digit must be the same;therefore PB should be suitable and ,yes,your car has an immobilizer.
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Don't confuse mechanical anti-theft devices with immobilizers-since the 70's,anti-theft devices have been fitted to vehicles-usually a steering lock but also on some cars a gear-lever lock(clutch interlock is just a safety device).In the 80's,electronic immobizers appeared.The key on your Fiesta has a transponder fitted(looks just like an ordinary key) but this sends a signal to the module and this will not allow the car to start/run if it is the wrong key.
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