My brother in law is at this very moment driving from Cheshire to Durham. Tomorrow, he has an appointment at the passport office.
If he manages to sort out his problem he will then drive straight to Plymouth where my sister in law and the kids are in their caravan which has been parked on a site there since yesterday.
Yesterday, they drove from Cheshire with the van in tow to catch a ferry to France last night for their holiday. They were turned back at the port. Neither adult had noticed that the kid's passports have expired. The only passport office with an available appointment was Durham and then only for tomorrow AM. He has had to leave them in Plymouth, drive back to his house in Cheshire for some docs, go on up to Durham and will stay in a hotel tonight.
He/she/they are not happy bunnies. Lot of blame going on.
To those who are off on hols in the next few weeks...be warned....
It's not funny.....no really it's not........terrible actually....shame.....
;-))))))
Edited by Humph Backbridge on 22/07/2009 at 20:56
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Turning out to be an expensive mistaken. Getting passports via one of their offices is not cheap. In fact I didn't think they issued them straight away even then.
Edited by rtj70 on 22/07/2009 at 21:16
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Sure is. The campsite in France is pre-paid. The one in Plymouth is to be paid. The fuel to get from Plymouth via Cheshire to Durham and back, the hotel, his food, the placatory gifts for wife and kids and as you say the cost of the new passports. The ferry company wants another fare.............
Oh dear......
We can all learn from this.
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Remeber there are some countries that will not accept your passport if its due to expire within 6 months of starting travel.
Whilst i sympathise its a very minor issue to check & would wonder what else they have missed.
Its a fair treck from Plymouth to cheshire so an expensive & hastled start to the holiday
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It's even further from Plymouth to Durham via Cheshire and back to Plymouth! Passports will be £94 each to begin with too.
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Yup - my wife is on the phone to her sister at this very moment. Two passports needed at £94 each. The ferry co. wants another £200. The list goes on......
I have suggested Cornwall but she got a bit heated at that point.....
Edited by Humph Backbridge on 22/07/2009 at 22:08
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If there was a backroom whip-round, I'd certainly contribute a small amount.
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Two passports needed at £94 each
But the passports were needed anyway and normal price is about £46. So added cost for passports at £96 the least of it! What a drive for your brother in law. I've done Manchester to Plymouth for a ferry and it's far enough but to go back all the way to Durham and then back to Portsmouth.
And I think the wait for the passports can be up to 4 hours at the passport office. So he won't get down to Portsmouth until tomorrow night at the earliest.
My passport is due for renewal next year. I'll get mine early and have the months added on. My wife has a biometric passport and I do not. When we both do we can go through the fast queue at Manchester airport.... in fact I should get it before October.
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Whilst i sympathise its a very minor issue to check & would wonder what else they have missed.
About a dozen illegals inbound on a container lorry, probably... ;-)
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So exactly what is the point of Europe and it's open borders ?
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You'll be able to use your identity cards(if you ever get them-and they'll charge for those).
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Europe and it's open borders ?
Its very good when you get over there, X, no stopping at every border and wasting an hour or two like you used to have to, but, as usual we decided not to be part of it...
BTW the French were checking out every vehicle entering from Belgium on the motorway from Ghent to Lille a couple of weeks ago... anyone know why? (I didn't get stopped but they brought us all down to 10mph and one lane)
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maybe a checklist is in order in bil house for future holidays,its easy to forget something or take the wrong currency (pre euros)
anyway its a talking point in your pub on return if its still open
i reckon he will need a holiday to get over the holiday
couldnt you have just put the kids into care for the week anyway?
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"BTW the French were checking out every vehicle entering from Belgium on the motorway from Ghent to Lille a couple of weeks ago... anyone know why?"
Because they can...
I went Portsmouth-Le Havre the Saturday of the NATO summit in Strasbourg - two passport booths open for a ferry full of first-day-of-Easter holiday tourists - it took an hour to get out of the port.
I love their cheese, wine, and some of their women, but their approach to officialdom is staggering.
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>So exactly what is the point of Europe and its open borders ?
The obstacle there is the UK, not the rest of the EU. That has the Schengen Agreement, to which the UK declined to become party - mainly, one suspects, out of successive governments' fear of the Little England mentality that persists in this country and even pops up, sad to say, from time to time in the BR.
One side effect is that it makes changing planes at Charles de Gaulle airport a right pain. If you're travelling from one Schengen country to another, it's a breeze; if you're coming from the UK, you have to take a long detour to get your passport checked before you can go to your next gate.
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So...
We pay shedloads of money to the EU, and have the open borders propoganda shoved down our throat as an example of what Governments can achieve when working together, but then a couple of children(!)'s documents are not in order and someone's holiday is ruined from the off. I mean, exactly what threat are the children likely to pose?
HB- I hope they get it sorted. As for the UK not having the facilities to renew passports near the major ports, well...
I'm with Mr. X- lunacy, and we're better off out the EU. It does NOT do what it says on the tin.
Edited by Toyota Red on 22/07/2009 at 23:15
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I told him it was bad karma to buy a caravan......
He reckons his Fireblade is the ying to its yang though.
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Who was it that was actually being difficult about the passports?
Once upon a time the french would accept an out of date UK passport (or even no passport if suitable proof of identity was available), however there was always the risk that they would reject at point of entry in France. Under these circumstances the carrier (be it an airline or ferry company) risked being fined for carrying a passenger without proper documents to travel. It used to be £2000 per head,( plus the cost of repatriation), hence carriers were unwilling to take the risk unless an indemnity was signed by the passenger.
As a result, most lowlevel staff at the carrier will just refuse because either they do not understand, or do not have the the authority.
Things may have changed with French border police being stationed in the UK at some points of exit from the UK - I do not know if this is the case at Plymouth.
PS I left the UK via Dover 10 days ago and my passports were neither inspected by the French at Dover or Calais - just waved thro!
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Who was it that was actually being difficult about the passports?
Ferry co. apparently
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>>>>>>
Who was it that was actually being difficult about the passports?
Ferry co. apparently <<<<<<<<<<
So any criticism should be aimed at the carrier not the French bureaucrats!
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I don?t see OP or any of his relations looking to criticise anyone ? in fact OP specifically says ?we can all learn from this?. It?s only some members of the Back Room who have deluded themselves that that someone other than the persons responsible for the out-of-date passports must at least have contributed to the failure, and that authorities should have turned a blind eye.
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PS I left the UK via Dover 10 days ago and my passports were neither inspected by the French at Dover or Calais - just waved thro!---------------
just dont try getting back into blighty without your passport though, i think customs are glad to see everyone leave at dover but i got the trick question off the british customs in calais last time i came back,i wouldnt mind but i dont even look like a spy
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Pedant Corner.
I am sure I must have missed something, but - could you possibly explain how they are both your siblings - in - law?
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Pedant Corner.
I know what you mean, but I suspect you also know what I mean, if you see what I mean.....think I'll leave it there if that's OK?
;-)
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Last week we were waived past by French immigration control at Dover ... but passports were scanned by UK counterparts in Calais on return.
There was the time passports were never even asked for .... not nowadays!
But to be fair, when my wife's handbag was stolen two years ago, my photocopy of her passport was accepted by UK immigration in Calais to allow her back home.... now I doubt that would ever be allowed by an airline!
(Moral of story - keep a photocopy of important documents stashed away 'just in case')
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First time I travelled to France was on a British Visitor's passport, which I got from the Post Office.
These were intoduced before Britain joined the EEC / EU.
So now, its more difficult to travel to Europe.
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A relative once worked in Europe in his summer vacation at Uni and did that on one of the temporary style passports. Whilst there he needed a full passport to visit some of Europe and had once issued over there. Seem to recall his passport had an issuing office of Dusseldorf :-) Not the stamp you'd use on a fake passport.
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So exactly what is the point of Europe and it's open borders ?
Last Summer, four of us drove the 1000 odd miles from Hampshire to Trentino in the North of Italy, passing from the UK into France, Belgium, Holland, Germany, Austria and Italy, and our passports didn't leave the envelope in the glovebox. We were simply waved through the French passport control at the Tunnel. By the looks of it, they were stopping about every sixth car.
Hassle free and wonderful.
Edited by DP on 23/07/2009 at 16:20
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>> So exactly what is the point of Europe and it's open borders ? >> Hassle free and wonderful.
>>
Also incredibly expensive.
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The only passport office with an available appointment was Durham and then only for tomorrow AM.
A colleague of mine did the same thing a couple of years ago and the only short term appointment was at Belfast passport office, so he had to fly there.
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French were stopping everything on the motorway last year as well - we were stopped on our bikes and waved through when they checked our number plates - fair dos.
Humph,
Any Crocs being worn by the in-laws? - interesting article on them (the Crocs) in today's Thunderer online.
Edited by Pugugly on 23/07/2009 at 00:52
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Frankly don't know why any one would give the French their hard earned cash....not as if we're welcome there.
tinyurl.com/l9qudm
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don't know why any one would give the French their hard earned cash
Oh shut up X.
Check passport: photo doesn't look like me, details all over the place, OK.
'OO is zis m'sieu'?'
'I dunno do I? Isn't there a name on it?'
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"So exactly what is the point of Europe and it's (sic) open borders?"
Total myth; the borders are open, closed, opened again at will. we are filmed, spied on and watched as much as the authorities decide to do. On my trips to Irun, on the Spanish/French border, there are frequent motorway signs warning of border closure, sometimes to lorries only, sometimes to all vehicles. And there are frequent "unannounced" inland checkpoints that can lead to hours of delays.
Whether we have passports or ID cards, the point about "open borders" is that once inside the Schengen area, a person is free to move about among other Schengen countries. Brilliant concept. BUT since only EU citizens can benefit from this "free mobility", you will likely have to prove, at some point, that you are actually an EU citizen, right? Which means a potential ID check anywhere, anytime. So we're back to square one.
A curiously little known (and utterly useless) fact is that there is no law in Britain phsycically requiring a passport to enter and leave the country: merely proof that one is not subject to immigration control (i.e. Her Maj can come and go as she pleases, but it's passports for the rest of us!)
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".... we are filmed, spied on and watched as much as the authorities decide to do. "
I was on a trip through the American mid West recently and, spending a lot of time in bars, got quite used to questions about us drinking our beer warm or did I know their buddy who lives in England. But in Iowa a youngish lad's only question was what was it like being filmed everywhere I go.
This was, however, on the same evening and in the same bar in which I was temporarily imprisoned by the police (!!!) because of "shots fired" on the next street... (it was July 4!)
Edited by smokie on 23/07/2009 at 07:44
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(i.e. Her Maj can come and go as shepleases but it's passports for the rest of us!)
I think HM is exempt from the law, hence no reg plates on her motor.
If she wants to take a Hyabusa up the M1 at 170 mph, or burgle your shed for your mountain bike, I don't think you can do anything about it !
Funny old world !
Ted
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i would take some of her swans if i found her nicking nuts and bolts from my shed i can assure you 1400ted
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Any Crocs being worn by the in-laws? - interesting article on them (the Crocs) in today's Thunderer online.
No, I wouldn't think so. They may have become caravanists but I can't see them having gone that far down the lack of self esteem route yet......
Yes I saw the article.
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I was in a queue at my local Post Office, behind a chap who using the PO's Check and Send service which ensures that your application is OK before it is sent. His 3 applications for children's passports were rejected beause he had taken the pictures and printed them himself, at home. How the staff knew that I am not sure but he was told to go and get them taken elswhere and try again. Only 3 weeks to his holiday too!
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I was in a queue at my local Post Office behind a chap who using the PO's Check and Send service which ensures that your application is OK before it is sent.
From experience the ones at our local post office err on the side of caution.
We were told that if they "passed" a passport application which was later rejected they would be stuck with the costs so they make absolutely sure they don't pass anything less than 110% sure.
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wifes was rejected by the PO because if you looked very very carefully there was an indentation in the picture caused by a paper clip, so i agree they err on caution, but it was still worth paying them the fee .
Ive got a nicy shiny passport with a silicone dip in it now...
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Ive got a nicy shiny passport with a silicone dip in it now...
I hope you mean silicon
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Very much to our surprise, my daughter was allowed to fly to Spain (from Heathrow) with a passport that was 2-months expired. That was 2 or 3 years ago. No problem with the return flight either. I think they said Spain was the only country that allowed this.
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>Whether we have passports or ID cards, the point about "open borders" is that once inside the Schengen area, a person is free to move about among other Schengen countries. Brilliant concept. BUT since only EU citizens can benefit from this "free mobility"...
Not so, Bilbo. Entry regulations are enforced at the point of entry to the Schengen area, so once you're in, you can go where you like, whatever your nationality. This means that all the Schengen countries have the same rules for issuing visas to non-EU nationals, so that an applicant can't be rejected by one country and try again somewhere else. Have a look at this page from the government site in Romania, which is in the process of joining Schengen and bringing its visa system into line with the others. www.schengen.mira.gov.ro/English/index03.htm
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French border police, backed by soldiers with automatic rifles, were doing passport checks at Cherbourg and Ouistreham (Caen) earlier this summer. First time I've seen this in years.
I took and printed out my passport photo a couple of years ago. It's carp but the British Embassy in Paris accepted it with no problem.
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>>I don?t see OP or any of his relations looking to criticise anyone ? in fact OP specifically
>>says ?we can all learn from this?. It?s only some members of the Back Room who have
>>deluded themselves that that someone other than the persons responsible for the out-of-
>>date passports must at least have contributed to the failure, and that authorities should
>>have turned a blind eye.
Certainly when the EU open borders came in - even with the UK's opt out - it was NOT necessary to have a valid passport to travel. All that was necessary was that you had to be able to prove your identity. Whilst a passport was probably the easiest way so to do - in the absence of ID cards (or photo driving licences), there was no requirement for it to be in date.
Have the rules really changed since then? It does, to me, sound like an over-zealous ferry company.
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I don't think it was quite as simple as 'any document will do', MM; it had to be a valid, recognized identity document. Other countries, including France, issue national identity cards, but the only type UK citizens have access to is the passport. And a passport ceases to be valid when it expires.
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Once flew to Dublin with a colleague - before peace broke out further north.
On the flight back he realised that his passport was still at home!
Got out and back in without being asked for passports by anyone.
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>>And a passport ceases to be valid when it expires.
Guidance I read at the time was that an out of date passport was perfectly acceptable for proving identity. Indeed the guidance was that it did NOT have to be a "valid recognised identity document" whatever you think one of those might be; merely that you had, in some way, to be able to prove your identity. Clearly the easiest way to do this was and remains a passport, but its validity was specifically not an issue
Now it is perfectly possible that for instance:
1. Post Al Quaeda you need a valid passport for ferry travel - much as you do for an internal UK flight
2. The rules have changed
3. etc. etc. etc.
and with luck doubt somebody in the BR will have an answer.
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This, for me, is la bouche du cheval.
europa.eu/abc/travel/doc/index_en.htm , specifically the bit that says
When entering or leaving the EU at the external borders you will need a valid passport or an ID card.
'External borders' in the context of the article means the borders of the Schengen area. The UK doesn't issue an ID card, so a passport it has to be. Valid means unexpired.
What MM may be thinking of is that I believe it's possible to use a passport that expired up to two years previously as ID for flights within the UK - but that's not for crossing a border, merely to identify yourself to the airline, so the same standards don't apply.
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It may be worth mentioning at this point that the Schengen countires and the EU are one and the same thing.
The EU countries which are not part of Schengen are UK, Eire, Cyprus, Bulgaria and Romania.
There are also several countires which are part of Schengen but are NOT in the EU: Norway, Iceland and Switzerland.
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He's just passed the M62 turnoff on the M1 southbound. New passports obtained. Sailing at 23.00.
Could be looking good.
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He's going to need that holiday...
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Sure is. I've had the port wrong though it's Portsmouth not Plymouth so I'd guess he'll be OK for time.
I suspect he might be singing falsetto for a while though once his wife's finished explaining her thoughts on the subject........
;-)
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I thought women had, nay even demanded, equal rights these days, Expired passports are a 50/50 responsibility and she is lucky to be in the caravan and not driving all over UK sorting the problem out!
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I'll suggest he puts it like that AS. I'm sure she'll see his point.....
;-)
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only if he took the kids with him to Durham :-)
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Humph,
Are you sure you are not 'that soldier'.....and you've been too embarrassed to admit it's you.
p.s. stop using that laptop at speed on the motorway, it's dangerous....and all that stuff about getting the port wrong, just to put us off the scent.....:-)
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I posted this earlier today but it didn't appear. I was in the PO yesterday where a chap was using the check and send service for three passports for his children. His photos, for all 3 were rejected, because he had taken and printed them at home. Apparently this used to be OK but now it isn't. Not sure how anybody could tell where a picture had been printed, with today's papers and printers, but that was what happened. £ weeks to go to his holiday and still at the starting gate!
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AS,
You did..at 0849.....have you had a bad day?
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He did indeed and it's on this page above:
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?m=886398...#
Some replies too.
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No just a long one - issuing Tamiflu to the dying!
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No, not guilty on this occasion...thank goodness.......
Now of course is not the right time but I am sooooo going to wind him up about this in due course...........
I've got 2.5 weeks to think of the best way....
;-)
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