Driving along at lunchtime, around a 90 degree corner with a house right on the inside of it, right by the pavement. You can't see what's coming until you get around the corner, in a 30MPH limit. The road is then straight for about 1/2 a mile. The 30MPH limit ends about 200 yards after the corner. Like this, I hope:
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|| 30MPH
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|| v direction of travel
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|| H=house 30MPH ends at X. @=SCamera van.
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|| H
\\___________@_x__________________
..\_____________x_________________ -> NSL "B" road
There was a SCamera van just inside the limit sign, camera pointing back towards the corner.
I stopped for a quick chat, being interested. Bear in mind that this was a big bright white transit-sized van, with highly visible markings, parked partly on the verge. The chap in there had "caught" quite a number of people, with the fastest clocked at 52MPH!
IMO the 52MPH person either didn't care about a speeding conviction, or should not have been on the road!
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Why not put it before the corner outside the house and save lives by making sure every one is doing 30 when they reach that dangeroous corner....... well we all know the answer to that one.
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cash cow, cash cow.
ding ding !
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200yds before the end of the limit so I can't see the problem and they are coming round a blind corner at over the limit if I've read you right... if you want to speed then do so, but don't complain about people trying to nick you, location of the camera is irrellevent, you shouldn't be over the limit... If you feel the speed limit is inappropriate then complain to the local council.
Only a cash cow if people are stupid enough to break the limit...
Nothing story....
Edited by b308 on 22/07/2009 at 19:06
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cash cow cash cow.
Cash cow indeed, especially the nitwit doing 52.
Seems to me (stop me if I've said this before) that if you miss a speed camera van, you've not been paying enough attention to the road.
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in our area we have one long road ( the A602) that runs from Hitchin to Hertford.
There have been a few accidents and the odd fatality, hende the green light to put 'safety camera' vans in various locations.
I don't have a problem with this however I would have thought these camera van's would be located where the actual accidents had occurred.
But this is not the case. These camera van's are NOT located where accidents have occurred.
If these camera's were located where accidents have occurred (or outside schools) then fair enough.
Hence the term cash cows.
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Seems to me (stop me if I've said this before) that if you miss a speed camera van you've not been paying enough attention to the road.
Not if they are out of sight round a bend or behind an obstruction, as many in my area are.
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Never mind, ON. It could be worse...
tinyurl.com/ywh283
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Not if they are out of sight round a bend or behind an obstruction as many in my area are.
Just before you reach a hidden safety camera it is surprising the number of oncoming drivers who use their headlight flasher to make you aware of their presence, as recommended in the Highway Code.
It always reminds me to make other road users aware of my own presence after I have passed the said safety camera (as recommended in the Highway Code).
Well, you can't be too safe, can you?
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I always make sure the scamera operative can see me. There's one on my daily commute I can spot a mile away, illegally parked. High beams on until I pass him.
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people moan if fixed cameras are used to catch idiots breaking the speed limit, then they moan if actual coppers are doing it. Then they say they should only be used in accident black-spots.
The object of the excercise is to stop idiots speeding, which is why they need to be where they are not expecting them. Otherwise all you get is the idiots speeding then slaming on through the cameras. Fining idiots heavily is the only way to do it, followed by removing their licences if they continue. If the excercise is self funding, paid for by the idiots ..... well that's a bonus instead of being a drain on my taxes
If you have a problem with a certain roads being unduly restricted (which certainly I do) then complain to the council or your MP, it can work
Edited by Webmaster on 25/07/2009 at 12:44
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@ Robin Reliant
+1 on this.
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It doesn't stop them speeding, though - it merely punishes them afterwards.
What would stop speeding is a largish police presence in marked and unmarked cars around accident black spots. Not only would speeding drivers be instantly stopped, but dangerous drivers and cars would be picked up too.
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And no doubt the accident black spot would move somewhere else...
Though the problem with large Police presences (or camera vans) is that as soon as they leave the speeds go back up... in some respect fixed cameras are more effective because they are always there and you don't know when they are live... but again they only cover a small bit of the road...
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and that these speed camera vans are staffed by civillians working 9 till 5pm.
Maybe no acidents happen outside of this time !
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"...speed camera vans are staffed by civillians working 9 till 5pm."
Don't be misled by this untruth...
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"...speed camera vans are staffed by civillians working 9 till 5pm." Don't be misled by this untruth...
Police *are* civilians. However, I don't know whether the chap in that particular van was a policeman or not, though - he wasn't in a uniform (strangely, in a ribbed jumper!). He was quite chatty, and in good humour.
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b308 - exactly so! A few years ago my local newspaper published a map of the county with the location of all the fatal accidents and all the fixed and mobile speed camera sites. There was not one accident within 5 miles of any camera, supporting your premise that the accidents 'go' elsewhere
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It doesn't stop them speeding though - it merely punishes them afterwards.
It flaming well will stop them speeding if they are caught a few times, won't it.
Edited by FotheringtonThomas on 23/07/2009 at 00:44
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Seeing as most insurance companies no longer load drivers for speeding fines clearly there is little added risk involved in speeding and being convicted thereof. Therefore the whole system should be changed so that speeding is no longer a criminal offence unless another element is present eg dangerous, careless or under the influence driving. Appropriate limits and the hanging out to dry of the dangerous drivers would gain the respect of the motoring public. There also needs to be some reward system in place for further driver training and it should be easy to do. Local police could easily organise driving days with skid pan training which would at least help engage them with the community that they serve.
Automated enforcement has just lead to automated avoidance through cloned plates and false registrations. It has done little to improve driving standards which have actually and visibly become worse.
Alternatively the speeding prosecution guidelines should be changed so that less than 10 mph over the limit is ignored. Everyone should then find it easy to stay within limits without continually checking their speedo just to make sure. I am confident that would lead to safer driving as people would spend more of their time looking where they were going rather than worrying whether they were a few mph over some of the ridiculously low limits that have been imposed if the previous option is unpalatable.
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the whole system should be changed so that speeding is no longer a criminal offence unless another element is present eg dangerous careless or under the influence driving
That's an interesting idea - however, the definition of "dangerous" or "careless" under particular circumstances would lead to huge difficulties.
Appropriate limits and the hanging out to dry of the dangerous drivers would gain the respect of the motoring public.
This is mainly what we have now, isn't it?
Alternatively the speeding prosecution guidelines should be changed so that less than 10 mph over the limit is ignored. Everyone should then find it easy to stay within limits without continually checking their speedo just to make sure.
You shouldn't need to continually check the speedo. Should a "10MPH over the limit safe zone" be established, then the people who need to check their speedos. would just do it at a higher speed, which wouldn't help safety.
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>> the whole system should >> be changed so that speeding is no longer a criminal offence unless another element is >> present eg dangerous careless or under the influence driving That's an interesting idea - however the definition of "dangerous" or "careless" under particular circumstances would lead to huge difficulties.
Not really. They'd just have to be observed and recorded by plod rather than a static camera. Then all conditions could be considered rather than just their numerical speed. Just like it was in the old days.
>> Appropriate limits and the hanging out >> to dry of the dangerous drivers would gain the respect of the motoring public. This is mainly what we have now isn't it?
No. Too many inappropriately low limits with cameras or punitive enforcement. Too many dangerous drivers get tiny fines and others get huge punishments and they don't correlate. Banned drivers that are caught driving again don't seem to be slammed into jail where they belong. If they have caused injury and are banned then they need to be prevented from driving altogether.
You shouldn't need to continually check the speedo. Should a "10MPH over the limit safe zone" be established then the people who need to check their speedos. would just do it at a higher speed which wouldn't help safety.
You shouldn't have to but people do, a lot. The more you put drivers under duress and threaten to ruin their livelihoods the more they put their numerical speed above all other considerations. If you set limits correctly in the first place the vast majority will be within them anyway. Increasing the limit and leaving all conditions the same doesn't necessarily lead to everyone automatically doing the new limit. If conditions don't allow then people don't. You could whack a 60 limit on a twisty road but if you can't do 60 safely then most people won't. If the safe speed is 40, and the limit is 40 most would be doing 40-45. If the limit gets pushed up to 60 then I'd bet you most will still do 40-45 as they probably were before.
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Seems to me (stop me if I've said this before) that if you miss a speed camera van you've not been paying enough attention to the road.
See my OP. This is quite true!
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If we all followed FT's example, every camera van would soon be surrounded by a cluster of ill-parked jalopies, many on the road at exotic angles, and the guy surrounded by an eager, animated, clamorous crowd of weeds and wets wearing deerstalkers and asking complex technical questions.
The more I think about it the more this original form of sabotage appeals. In fact I think I will start scouting around for a deerstalker tomorrow.
Where do you get yours FT?
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It's all down to driver training! Highly trained airline pilots don't need speed cameras on the runway for instance. They dont go burning off a rival aircraft to see who can take off first.
Cars are tested once a year(older ones anyway) drivers are tested once a LIFETIME Does this really make sence?
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I have seen vans parked on motorway bridges but also marked police cars. Are they both engaged in nabbing speedsters?
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Possibly. A colleague's son has just been in Court for doing 99mph. The police car was on a bridge, with another waiting in a layby.
6 points and £250.
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Lucky it wasn't 1mph more, its a ban then isn't it?
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Despite the various rules laid down, some vans are clearly being under signed and made to look as anonymous as possible. Surely the point is not only to catch offenders but to provide a visible presence to deter those who might transgress ?
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Surely the point is not only to catch offenders but to provide a visible presence to deter those who might transgress ?
That's what yon chappie in the van said. He didn't seem too bothered about the number of "customers", but did say the object was to be visible and slow down speeders. He wasn't impressed by Mr. 52MPH, though! I agree.
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My mates father runs one of the speed camera vans in Oxfordshire. He is a retired police sargeant.
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You don't provide much visible presence when you hide the equipment in a horse box ( North Wales police ) or you paint the scamera van up to look like an old builders van ( Derbyshire I believe though I stand to be corrected ).
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the ones around our way are clear white at the back but clearly signed on the side.
The only give away sign is the two narrow flaps above the rear doors with the camera's (two camera's, one for each lane of a dual carriage way).
Only by the time you read the sign it's too late by then (if you were speeding).
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A few are like that which is a sop to the regulations re making partnership vans clearly marked. What's wrong with putting something on the doors facing the traffic ?
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I have noticed in Cambridgeshire the vans are black and have very clear signs everywhere on the van.
At least that's a bit bit more obvious and if you were to get nicked by these then it's your own fault.
But where I live it is all covert white van's.
Why does it seem to vary from county to county ?
Edited by diddy1234 on 23/07/2009 at 12:01
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I have noticed in Cambridgeshire the vans are black and have very clear signs everywhere on the van. But where I live it is all covert white van's.
Perhaps there's a case for standardisation - then, no matter where you're travelling within the UK, you could recognise these vans, and they would have the desired effect - that of slowing down speeders :) What do you think?
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Of course they should be standardised. Would we expect to see different type of 30mph limit signs as we drive around the Uk, some with red borders, some square, some with green lettering. Of course not.
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Getting back to the original post, could you answer the following question:
Was the Tallyvan knicking people who had gone round a (sharp?) bend at excess speed, or were they knicking people who had gone round the corner at a safe speed, and then seeing a long straight stretch (with good visibility?) had decided to speed up.
If the former, then good luck to the Tallyvan. If the latter, then this does seem questionable.
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most speed camera vans i see are parked illegally, and their drivers are more dangerous than the vast majority of motorists they persecute
if I didnt see them parked blocking foot paths, parked on the central reservation of dual carriageways, parked round blind bends in dangerous spots, and so much more i may have some sympathy for them
worse than scum in my opinion most of them
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most speed camera vans i see are parked illegally and their drivers are more dangerous than the vast majority of motorists they persecute
Take a picture of the van, they're subject to the same laws as us AFAIK. Make sure the operator knows you've done it (tell him). Send the picture to your police HQ. It might help...
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I have seen a few parked illegally but it seems to be ok for them.
One rule for them and one rule for us !
just have a look at these examples :-
images.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&cr=countryUK|coun...i
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"I have seen a few parked illegally but it seems to be ok for them."
The photos show a vehicle parked on double yellow, this does not mean it's auotmatically parked illegally.
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Don't forget, these are not ' emergency service ' vehicles. They are owned and operated out side of that jurisdiction and it's protections.
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Was the Tallyvan knicking people who had gone round a (sharp?) bend at excess speed or were they knicking people who had gone round the corner at a safe speed and then seeing a long straight stretch (with good visibility?) had decided to speed up.
Possibly both, but I think people speeding around that corner would be a minority! It's a 90 degree sharp blind bend. After the corner, the road disappears into the distance (down a slight dip outside the 30 limit), but the 30 zone continues in a built-up area for a little way. The people caught would probably have exited the corner at 30, building up speed within the 30MPH limit before getting on to the NSL stretch. When I came around the corner, the van looked very, very obvious up the road - I wondered whether he'd nabbed anyone at all! Unbelievably, he had.
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In Wales recently I saw a police radar trap right by the 30 mph sign, but they were after people who were flooring it as they left the restriction, not people coming into the 30.
A bit sneaky, but it's still law enforcement and so fair game.
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In Wales recently I saw a police radar trap right by the 30 mph sign but they were after people who were flooring it as they left the restriction not people coming into the 30.
This was similar, but not right by the 30MPH sign. Next time I pass, I'll look to see what hazards there are.
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isn't the idea to prevent accidents by being visible? then why hide them all the time, just over a hill, behind other vehicles, round bends, etc. in lincolnshire the idea is to make them pay, thats why they are out in the open countryside, not outside schools, or near accident spots. on bike nights they are out in force. on the way to the seaside with screeming kids in the car and mums and dads ranting at them instead of looking whats going on, young lads showing the girls what fools they are by driving agresively, tempers going up with the heat outside. not a camera in sight. Just the odd car hear or there would help if we could see it.
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