This morning a car overtaking a long line of slower vehicles moving at about 50mph suddenly noticed a double white line coming up, and a lorry approaching head on. The driver seemed about to step on it and pass me, then had cold feet and swerved in sharply behind me instead.
Seeing him coming up, and realising that he was not going to get past, I had been in two minds as between braking to let him get past, or maintaining my speed so that he could slip in behind. If I had braked, he would have gone straight into the lorry. As it happened, I made the right decision, ie to do nothing, but either way, failing to anticipate his action would have precipitated an accident.
Has anyone any thoughts on this? The rule at sea is the vessel being overtaken holds its course and speed, and it is the overtaker's responsibility entirely. Is there a similar rule on the road?
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I don't know of any 'rules' as such. However I'd agree with the 'rules of the sea'... ie that the car being overtaken drives as he/she was previously, maintaining their speed. When I'm overtaking other vehicles I've looked to see where (in a line of traffic) where I can pull back in; and this would include other options should people I'm passing behave differently to anticipated. I realise that some people overtake on the assumption that someone will let them back in - usually irresponsible people with little thought to the well being of other road users.
People who are being overtaken who brake - though they have good intentions - can cause problems as the overtaker may have to re-evaluate their options; the worst action to take is to speed up - not only does this endanger yourself (by putting you in close proximity to the vehicle in front) it may reduce the options available to the overtaker.
Well that's my post for the day. Ta-ra
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On being overtaken in the past I have tended to just ease off the accelerator so I stop accelerating and I suppose gradually slow down a bit. I had thought that doing this would allow the overtaker to get on with it and join the next queue of traffic!
I can't remember any rule as such. However after thinking about it I would agree that the best thing do would be to maintain our own current speed and distance from the cars in front and/or behind. I suppose we should also be prepared to take avoiding action should the overtaker decide to dive back into the queue of traffic.
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These replies broadly confirm my view of the situation. My worry was that if the overtaker had persisted in his attempt for a fraction of a second longer, he would have passed the point of no return and the only way an accident could have been avoided would have been for me to brake sharply to give him a space ahead to dive into. That would probably have sent the car behind into my back, but would have saved the overtaker from a head on collision. Am I supposed to be making decisions and choices like that, or do I just leave him to it to face (literally!) the consequences of his own reckless overtaking?
How would a court view an attempt by me to save him, if the result was a different but probably less severe kind of accident?
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I think that the overtaker has the responsibility to only overtake if (s)he can do it safely and that includes getting back into the correct lane.
The problem in this country is that people driving in a slow queue quite often drive too close to each other thus making it very difficult to get back into the correct lane when needs be.
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This is one where safety overides right and wrong, and maintaining your speed was/is exactly the right thing to do. I am sure you also made an evaluation of the situation to decide what your emergency options were.
The 'rule' is more or less implied in the highway code - your actions as a motorist should not cause another to alter speed or direction, so the idiot motorist in your case should not rely on you doing or not doing anything.
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In this case there was a clear space in front of me, which the overtaker realised almost too late he wasn't going to get to in time. I could have helped him by braking, but only if I knew he was going to hammer on. Instead of which, he braked and I carried on, so he was able, just, to get in behind me.
As a postscript, there were no further opportunities for anyone to overtake for the rest of the journey. So he tailgated me all the way, presumably by way of a driving lesson to the two children he was carrying.
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The only comment I can make is that you should not accelerate while someone is overtaking you.
When I am overtaken on blind bends I usually press the break pedal and pray. It always scares the life out of me.
Thank goodness you didn't in this case.
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Additionally you could sit as far to the left as possible, if you feel that you may be about to become toast, when being overtaken.
Generally I did this anyway for motorcyclists (just too sweet I guess!!!), however on the odd occassion that someone is travelling faster than I (?); I've been known to sit to the left as this again reduces the risk.
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Cliff,
In describing what happened, surely you are giving an example of the system of car control as taught by the advanced schools in a practical application.
All through the process you were operating the information phase at full whack, making observations about what was happening around you, making links as to what might happen, making contingency plans, deciding what was the appropriate speed and position you needed, could anyone benefit from a signal, and then acting upon all this. You decided to keep a constant speed.
I'm sure, given what I have read about the situation, that had mi'laddo been just a little bit further past you/ alongside you before he decided that a bail out was necessary you would have already decided that a reduction in speed was necessary, given a flash of the brake lights to waken up following traffic and then applied brakes as necessary in order to make space around the front of your vehicle. Equally I can imagine a scenario where you might have decided to speed up just a little bit so as to make more room behind.
I do not wish to be considered patronising, but..... Well Done! You got to the end of the journey in one piece, the prime purpose of any journey, and into the bargain by posting it here have helped us all add one more piece of the learning jigsaw.
Rgds,
FiF
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Thanks FiF,
I don't think I really did all that, unless by instinct- it all happened so quickly.
I think to be really honest my thoughts were;
1) he's going to kill himself, serves him right
2) he's going to kill me, how can I escape?
3) lots of people are going to get killed, what can I do?
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Cliff,
I suspect that you do yourself an injustice. It takes a lot longer to say it broken down into constituent parts than to think it in practice.
cheers,
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As a postscript, there were no further opportunities for anyone to overtake for the rest of the journey. So he tailgated me all the way, presumably by way of a driving lesson to the two children he was carrying.
So how much time did he save?
A few seconds, probably; maybe a couple of minutes, if by being a few cars in front he reached the next set of traffic lights on green and not red.
Not worth the risk really, was it?
Personally, a few minutes of my time aren't as important as my life and my health. If I arrive at work (or home) a few minutes later than usual, there's no financial penalty; and there's no big prize if I get there a few minutes early.
If timing really matters, I give myself an extra 20 minutes or so, precisely so that I don't have to rush and take unnecessary risks.
On the subject of responsibility, I consider I have a responsibility to stay alive and be able to provide some income for the family pot. I won't be much use to them if I'm stuck in hospital with my legs broken, or 6 feet under in a cemetary somewhere.
As SWMBO tends to say: better to be late in this life than early in the next.
Apologies if this post sounds a bit maudlin, but I know of a couple of people who've recently died (directly and indirectly) after RTAs. It makes you reconsider your priorites.
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If Im being overtaken, I don't consider I have any responsibilities for the other driver's actions, good or bad. I don't hold with this nonesense about any 'rule' either. I won't accelerate but neither will I automatically slow down.
That said, if some moron decides to overtake in a ridiculous place or where there is traffic coming the other way, I ensure I wont get caught up in any potential difficult situation or accident. I guess that's called defensive driving.
If Im overtaking, I ensure it is safe to do so or, that I can safely pull in behind the cars Im overtaking if I need to ie I wont try and pass 10 or 12 cars at once like some idiots I see on the roads.
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There is no specific rule laid down as to what to do when being overtaken; However, you are legally required to take whatever action is nescessary to avoid an accident in any situation.
For example, say you were being overtaken and the overtaking driver had got it seriously wrong and had a head on collision with another vehicle, if an accident investigation later decided that you had sufficient time to drop back and make space for him to move into and you had not done so even though you were aware of the impending risk of a crash then you would have been deemed to have comitted an offence which was a contributary cause of the accident. In such a case you could face a charge of dangerous driving.
The law is quite clear in specifying that every road user has a primary duty to ensure the safety of himself and others when it is within the bounds of what a reasonably competent driver would be able to do. To give another example, if a driver hit another motorist who had jumped a red light and then said that he had seen the situation arising but had not slowed because he had right of way then he himself would be held legally responsible for his part in the accident.
To sum up, if it is possible to avoid an accident, even if it is caused by someone else's recklessness, you are duty bound to do so.
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"This morning a car overtaking a long line of slower vehicles moving at about 50mph suddenly noticed a double white line coming up, and a lorry approaching head on."
This is a typical example of the causes of the majority of accidents: poor observation and selfish behaviour.
If the overtaking driver was familiar with the road he would have known that a double white line was coming up and should not have attempted to overtake at that point, although he may have been familiar with the road and intended to ignore the double white line anyway.
Why did "suddenly" notice a lorry approaching head on?
Surely either he was not observing far enough ahead for the situation he was putting himself (and yourself and others) into, or else he was attempting to overtake approaching a bend, round which the lorry was coming and he had not observed?
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Why did "suddenly" notice a lorry approaching head on? Surely either he was not observing far enough ahead for the situation he was putting himself (and yourself and others) into, or else he was attempting to overtake approaching a bend, round which the lorry was coming and he had not observed?
Hard to say. I think it probably was out of sight round a bend when he started to overtake the long line of cars, and he just went flat out hoping to pass as many as possible before something got in the way, and was banking on being able to barge in somewhere. He crossed the white lines even pulling back behind me - if there had been no lorry he would I am sure have just carried on and ignored them.
There seems to be a kind of deadly syndrome which says 'if I go fast enough the road will clear for me'.
Exactly the same thing happened this morning, but only two cars to overtake. I was following a car again doing about 50-55 on a bendy A-road. A car appeared suddenly from behind, doing at least 70, and simply ignored the white lines.
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I remember a crash that my aunt had. She was overtaking 3 or 4 cars down a straight stretch when a car pulled out of a drive/turning/entrance, obviously having only looked in the one direction, before pulling in fromt of my aunt's on coming car.
Result was a minor head-on.
Would I be right in thinkning that my aunt would have been done for driving with out due care/dangerous driving?
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IIRC, there is nothing in UK motoring law which says you MUST drive on the left, hence the "Keep Left" signs and arrows on traffic islands etc.
If I am correct then the obligation is on the person turning out of the drive to check for traffic moving in either direction on both sides of the road.
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>>a car pulled out of a drive/turning/entrance, obviously having only looked in the one direction, <<
This is a golden rule of defensive driving - never overtake when there is a turning on the right. When pulling out onto a main road, how many people make a final check for oncoming traffic in 'their' lane? Not many I bet.
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" ...never overtake when there is a turning on the right"
Don't have the Highway Code to hand to check, but I thought this was more than just common sense, I thought it was in there in black and white.
I nearly got wiped out once making just that mistake. Luckily the Z3 emerging from the side road ahead of me (who hadn't looked first) had enough space to his left to avoid me. But I'm sure an accident would have been both our faults.
GJD
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Never let goons past, floor it and watch them splat.
Especially Citroen Saxo VTRs as all drivers of these miserable tin cans seem to have a death wish anyway.
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This reminds me on a recent trip to Scotland. I was tootling along at around 50, long stretch of road and some approaching vehicles in the distance. Infront of me was a car, stopped on the road. I decided to overtake and accelerated to ensure I would clear the approaching rather large lorry. As I began overtaking the stationary car though it decides to pull off and accelerates! In that time you only have a second or so to decide whether to further accelerate if you can safely tuck infront before the approaching traffic, or brake hard and pull in behind. Given that there was very close traffic behind me, all doing similar speed I decided to accelerate (which in a 2.0 auto omega isn't exactly confidence inspiring!). That was quite scary and I remember afterwards staying behind traffic unless there was a clear few miles ahead for overtaking!
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