It's a horrible horrible car that will make most right thinking people think less of you and your judgement. It also sounds like it's ruined for you. Reject it and get yourself a proper car not some tarted up truck.
Sorry but what a silly, unnecessary comment.
It seems that you have gone to the trouble of telling us of the problems but you may be hoping that someone will back you up with the comforting words you need to keep the car which your "really like". However like me I think most people will see that deep down you really don't want this car any more. So go ahead and get rid of it however you can.
To be honest, its not comforting words I'm after - I'm really after advice on how to deal with this. I do really like the car, but as you say, deep down, my feelings are different.
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If I can also add - I'm trying to gauge if I'm being unreasonable, or if I've given the dealership enough time. i.e. where would I stand legally.
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Sorry but what a silly unnecessary comment.
I think you'll find you're thinking of the car, not my comment.
Fair play if you need a 4x4, but then why not get a proper one? An X5 is just something that is more likely to kill anyone in a smaller car (it's unnecessarily heavy) or a pedestrian (it's tall). Only something like an X6 or a Hummer is more antisocial.
To be honest its not comforting words I'm after - I'm really after advice on how to deal with this. I do really like the car but as you say deep down my feelings are different.
It's hard to give good advice when you say you don't feel like going into detail on what's wrong with the car. Has it been accident repaired, had a replacement engine? What?
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I think you'll find you're thinking of the car not my comment. Fair play if you need a 4x4 but then why not get a proper one? An X5 is just something that is more likely to kill anyone in a smaller car (it's unnecessarily heavy) or a pedestrian (it's tall). Only something like an X6 or a Hummer is more antisocial. It's hard to give good advice when you say you don't feel like going into detail on what's wrong with the car. Has it been accident repaired had a replacement engine? What?
I didn't intend on (or wasn't wanting to) get into a silly discussion about the merits of an X5.
Anyway, I'm not going into the info as I don't want to jeopardise my possible rejection, and I'm unsure what you can and can't say these days. However, it is not accident damage no, its just something the dealer should have dealt with before sale, and is a justifiable reason for me to reject.
If it makes you feel better, I'll reject the car, and get a mountain bike. As long as that meets your approval.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 15/07/2009 at 14:47
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If you get a mountain bike then you should try Nant-y-Arian, it's a great trail centre and you can watch them feed the red kites ;-).
Seriously though, are you ever going to be happy with this car if you're asking these questions? Get shot.
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Inform them in writing of the faults with the vehicle, and what is required to put the situation right.
Make it clear that if they fail to remedy the situation you will be formally rejecting the vehicle.
Be prepared to use a solicitor.
If you are clear about the way in which you want the problems corrected, they will probably go along with this.
Presumably you still have a loan vehicle, and therefore they do have an incentive to correct all the faults.
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Its a Dog
A sick Dog.
Get rid before you get attached to it, and then regret it.
BTW, I really dont see what people see in that type of car, as has been said, they on the whole, arent the safest, they drink fuel, handle like a brick, and in my experience go wrong more often than a convention car - probably due to the excess weight.... AND are useless off road (not that they ever go there!)
Still what others wish to spend their hard earned on isnt my worry... in fact it (hopefully) keeps me in a job!
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ConcernedOwner, first of all you pay your money, you make the choice and don't be taken aback that people on here hate 4x4s!!!
Personally I quite like the X5 , would love to have one but can't afford!
Anyway, try and refuse the car, you mentioned finance, maybe they can help you on this especially if dealer sold you the finance and got commission on it?
There are thousands of X5s out there so don't feel if you reject this another one won't appear! Is it purchased from a BMW dealer? Could they have another X5 to give you instead or to strike a deal on?
But as has been said, you have bought a car, after a week there is a bitter taste, that taste will never go away. If you can reject, do it!
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Without knowing what's wrong with the car, its impossible to say whether its reasonable to reject it or not. The OP doesn't have to say anything that discloses who the garage in question in to tell us what the fault it.
If the car is unsafe to drive or substantially not as described (e.g. you've discovered major crash repair that you weren't told about at the time of sale) then I'd think you'd have just grounds to reject it.
If its suffered a lesser fault, such as the battery/central locking problem you mentioned, the garage is entitled to attempt to fix it to your satisfaction first. I'm assuming, as you used BMW assist, that this is a fairly new car that still enjoys some degree of manufacturer's warranty - what faults would be considered acceptable were you to engage in legal proceedings depends on the age and mileage of the car.
It seems to me that the garage have made reasonable efforts to fix this fault and have provided you with a replacement car to go about your business while they do. If the committments that prevent you collecting the X5 before Friday are yours, its hardly reasonable to blame the garage that you've only driven the X5 for a week.
I don't see anything in their handling of the fault, once discovered, that I'd consider as poor service. Whether they should have discovered other faults that existed before you collected the car is another matter, but do bear in mind you chose to accept the car rather than walk away from the purchase.
If the problem is that the gloss has gone off the BMW ownership experience for you, regrettable though that is, its not grounds for rejection if the car is roadworthy and in fair condition for its age and mileage.
(BTW, I have no axe to grind with BMWs or SUVs - I run a '01 3 series, which has served me well - but of all the makes I've driven, I've has the best customer service from Fiat)
(Edit: Grammar corrected...oops!)
Edited by Gromit {P} on 15/07/2009 at 15:40
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I'm not being unreasonable, but I also don't know what to do or how to play it. I want it sorting to MY satisfaction - and at the moment, I don't know what that is
I find the OP postings extremely confusing, rambling and non specific.
It seems to me the only complaints he is explaining is that the dealer isnt fixing his complaints to a timetable of the OP's choosing. This is par for the course, dealers generally dont drop everything to instantly fix a car like an F1 pitstop.
The OP is evasive of the problems, the only one being described is a dicky remote key. Hardly vehicle rejection material. Methinks either the OP is expecting an impossibly high level of service or perhaps he's just thinking "not sure I really want/like/can afford this".
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Unless the dealer has deceived you (lied about mileage, SH, etc) then what rights to rejection do you think you have? You can expect the dealer to fix faults etc., but I'm uncertain what grounds exist for a full refund in your case?
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The OP is evasive of the problems the only one being described is a dicky remote key. Hardly vehicle rejection material. Methinks either the OP is expecting an impossibly high level of service or perhaps he's just thinking "not sure I really want/like/can afford this".
Snipquote - it would appear the pop up request asking to snip and summarise when quoting the message you're replying to isn't working, or that you've simply ignored it!!
See my post above detailing the fault. Also, I can tell you for sure, your final comment is way off the mark.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 15/07/2009 at 19:59
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Without knowing what's wrong with the car its impossible to say whether its reasonable to reject it or not. The OP doesn't have to say anything that discloses who the garage in question in to tell us what the fault it.
OK - when the battery issue was being looked into, I was informed by the technician that the car had suffered both water and fire damage. On further investigation, it seems that a fault occurred in a rear power adapter, which led to something igniting and burning a part in the back of the car (inside a panel). Some of the wiring was melted. It is now thought that the 'water damage' is down to a fire extinguisher or water being thrown in to douse the flames. But it has left certain parts rusted (behind panels admittedly) but also the fuse box and electrical contacts are showing excessive corrosion.
Given I had an electrical fault prior to collection, then the central locking goes, then it points to an electrical issue. Consumer Direct informed me that was reasonable grounds to reject the car.
It seems to me that the garage have made reasonable efforts to fix this fault and have provided you with a replacement car to go about your business while they do. If the committments that prevent you collecting the X5 before Friday are yours its hardly reasonable to blame the garage that you've only driven the X5 for a week.
>>
I'm afraid I disagree. When this was reported to them on the 5th day of ownership, they did not get back to me and I had to chase it up 2 days later. 'Oh we were going to look at it next time you bring it in'. No. They then collected the car the day after (Friday), then called me Monday to say they were investigating and will get back to me that day. Again, nothing. I've called back this afternoon to find out the guy is not in today. When I speak tomorrow, they will have had the car for nearly a week, and I'm still non the wiser. My comment re: Friday was based on my belief this would be resolved by Friday if I agreed to it (a few days for parts to be ordered etc)
I don't see anything in their handling of the fault once discovered that I'd consider as poor service. Whether they should have discovered other faults that existed before you collected the car is another matter but do bear in mind you chose to accept the car rather than walk away from the purchase.
Again, I disagree - I feel the lack of interest and urgency (that is how it seems to me), is very poor. If they have worked on it, and know what the issues are, then they should let me know and certainly should call when they say they will.
If the problem is that the gloss has gone off the BMW ownership experience for you regrettable though that is its not grounds for rejection if the car is roadworthy and in fair condition for its age and mileage. (BTW I have no axe to grind with BMWs or SUVs - I run a '01 3 series which has served me well - but of all the makes I've driven I've has the best customer service from Fiat) (Edit: Grammar corrected...oops!)
The gloss hasn't gone off BMW's know (this is my 3rd consecutive one although my first used one). In my opinion, the car had a demonstratable fault/issue that BMW should have known about prior to sale. After all, it was a technician of theirs that pointed this out to me. The vehicle is just over 3 years old but comes with an approved warranty for 12 months. It is supposed to go through a thorough check prior to sale, and whilst I appreciate that they would not rip the car apart, the vehicle has an issue that it should not have been sold with.
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CO, reject it. Immediately.
Seriously, the damage you describe is going to mean this car will likely turn into a major PITA in the future. There are plenty around that will not have this 'fault', and the car is materially not what you were offered. If you had known about it, would you have paid what you have? No, thought not. Get rid.
Edited by Gordon M on 15/07/2009 at 16:08
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CO reject it. Immediately.
Snipquote - AGAIN!
No I wouldn't have, and I did advise the dealership of this too. Their reply 'we wouldn't have bought it either'
Cheers
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 15/07/2009 at 20:00
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No I wouldn't have and I did advise the dealership of this too. Their reply 'we wouldn't have bought it either'
It sound like the dealership who sold you the car were unaware of the car's history, and this comment of theirs suggests that they accept that they are in the wrong.
I would reject it. Plenty more out there that haven't suffered from fires.
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Just to add to this, I am not looking for get out clauses, or such like.
I'm just someone who has not suffered this kind of issue before. I didn't provide the whole detail first of all as I didn't know if it was right to do so.
Maybe I am being hasty in my expectations. But given the conversations I've had with consumer direct and the finance company, you have to act in haste.
My major concern, even if the issue is fixed, is what future problems will/could it bring?
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Not sure what kind of dealer youhave bought from but I would go straight back in to speak to the top man and advise them that you are rejecting, you want a refund and you will absolutely not be taking that car off their hands.
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Not sure what kind of dealer youhave bought from but I would go straight back in to speak to the top man and advise them that you are rejecting you want a refund and you will absolutely not be taking that car off their hands.
Thanks BobbyG
Its actually an approved dealership, part of the BMW AUC group.
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Due to the badge it wears and the type of vehicle it is, it's not a car I'd want to own with a major out of warranty faults. At the very least you want the current fault fixed permanently, and with no likelihood of recurrence or knock on faults.
My inclination would be to get your money back, and choose one of the many others for sale. Some cars are just "pups". This might not be, and may run happily once this is fixed, but this is the last make and type of car that I'd want to take such a risk on.
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My major concern even if the issue is fixed is what future problems will/could it bring?
Reoccurring electrical faults.... IMO that car will never be 100% free of problems.
for either fire, or water damage the ONLY decent repair, would be replacement of all affected parts, ie the loom, and any relays, switches and control units that got heated/wet.
as far as I know, unless BMW have changed their policy, repairs to looms are not approved.
Then.. the OP states there are signs of rust...... on a 3 year old BMW?
that says to me, that the fire took hold enough to damage the paint.
is there any signs of repainting on the exterior of the car, close to the seat of the fire?
As has been said... BACK this car NOW!
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Thanks all - appreciate I should have given the full details earlier in my thread, but people are now aware of why I'm concerned.
Then.. the OP states there are signs of rust...... on a 3 year old BMW? that says to me that the fire took hold enough to damage the paint. is there any signs of repainting on the exterior of the car close to the seat of the fire? As has been said... BACK this car NOW!
Just to confirm, the rust is internal, i.e. screws and contacts. Not on the bodywork. However, still not acceptable.
interesting comment re: the loom too - thanks
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astrabob, above, gets it right - IMO.
Write down your complaints/concerns and what you expect to happen - including the timescale. Tell them you are considering rejecting the car.
Make sure the dealer principal gets your letter.
Take care of the loan car.
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A clear case for a full refund. Don't be messed about, and be prepared to use the legal system/the threat of negative publicity.
Get your retaliation in first...
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The BMW dealer must be bonkers to retail this car if they knew of the fire and water damage.
Either that, or they work to Arthur Daley standards of customer care, which is more likely.
I'd be annoyed if this was £995 trade-in special from a bombsite dealer, but an approved used BMW? Some scheme that must be.
The burned out wiring means any safety systems that depend on electricity must now be deemed to be suspect.
I think you owe it to yourself and to other road users not to drive this car again, which I suppose means you should reject it.
Easy for me to say - I don't envy you the task of getting your money back.
Good luck.
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All would have made sense had the OP stated his greivance with the dealership clearly at the outset.
However, fire damage is serious. At best, the dealership didn't check the car carefully enough to know about it. Did the previous owner have the damage repaired without claiming on insurance and then trade the car in? Would the damage be such that an insurance claim would flag on a HPI check? We won't specualte beyond that.
Most fire extinguishers sold for use in cars are powder, not water (water and fuel or electiral fires don't mix!). This powder is corrosive - not the kind of thing you want to spray over 3 year old metalwork and not the kind of damage that can be repaired easily.
In any case, reject the car as advised - the fault was present at the time of purchase, and how it got there is the seller's problem, not yours.
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Most fire extinguishers sold for use in cars are powder not water (water and fuel or electiral fires don't mix!). This powder is corrosive - not the kind of thing you want to spray over 3 year old metalwork and not the kind of damage that can be repaired easily.
Interesting to know - wasn't aware of that
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Check the A-pillars - perhaps the firefighters cut the roof off and it's been stuck back on with Sellotape. :)
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