I got my first 3 points today for using a mobile phone. I can do without the lecture! I surrendered the license and paid at the magistrate's desk the same day as I like to get these things sorted out quickly.
Then I read the FPN properly. He's put his rank as PCSO! This is a surprise to me because he was on a proper police bike and I didn't even think they could give out endorsable tickets?
It's too late to do anything about it now because I've already dealt with it, but is that right? A PCSO can issue FPN's? He also required me to produce my license within 7 days.
Interested out of curiousity more than anything.
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Please forgive my complete stupidity, I was misreading the ticket. The PCSO was the one who signed the bottom to acknowledge I had handed my license in!
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Count yourself unlucky - I see loads of drivers on the phone.
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Everyone knows it is illegal to interact/use/handle and mobile phone whilst driving and I fail to understand the burning desire to play with the phone whilst driving. Then you see a car parked in a dumb position as they have stopped to use the phone but still committing an offence as the engine is still running, in fact if you are sat in the drivers seat with the keys in your hand you are deemed to be in control of the vehicle. Try sittng in the car sipping form a bottle of scotch. There was a case on another forum where the person was prosecuted due to evidence from a mobile camera van, they were not speeding but on the phone. Just stop using the phone whilst driving simple. Rant Off. Regards Peter
Edited by Peter D on 25/06/2009 at 17:31
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Peter D. No need for the rant, the OP knows he's done wrong. We've all been silly at some time. As quoted from the OP's message "I can do without the lecture".
I've also been done for this 18 months ago and learnt my lesson, we know it's stupid, the police point that out to us when they dish the ticket and points out. He was looking for advice not a lecture from you!
"rant off"
Lee
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Peter D. Surely you are not correct.
Is it really illegal to sit in a stationary, non-running car with the keys in the ignition and make a telephone call (in the same way as it would be illegal were you drunk)?
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I've tried to research this and as far as I can see, the law simply says you must not use a hand-held phone while driving.
The definition of "driving" extends as far as being stationary with the engine running. It doesn't seem that "driving" is the same as "being in charge of a motor vehicle".
As always, I await possible correction by one of our legal people.
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In order to drive a person must have some control over both the steering and propulsion. Nor is it an act which is just preparatory to the act of 'driving' like starting the engine.
Coming to a temporary stop, say at some traffic lights, is held still to be 'driving'.
Pulling up at the side of the road and deliberately stopping I would submit is not 'driving'.
Plenty of Case Law on the subject .
Edited by Fullchat on 25/06/2009 at 20:04
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Pendulum was just unlucky. There but for the grace of God goes the majority. Willingly or less willingly, most of us have answered calls on the move at some time or other. Nearly always perfectly safely too.
Of course we probably shouldn't. But that applies to a lot of things most people do sometimes.
No disrespect of course to any 'old wifies' (to steal a friend's expression) out there who may want to say that they have never done anything a bit evil. They are an example to the rest of us and should be admired.
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PCSO's do give out endorsable tickets in London, Ive spent an entertaining day watching them do people for driving onto the yellow zig zags of a juntion when its not clear, usually one of the busier junctions and 10 PCSO's and one PC hit it and all start doing all the drivers
Usually they let the bus drivers and police cars off (the main culprits)
These same junctions are impossible to make any progress if you stick strictly to the law so its complete nonsense
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These same junctions are impossible to make any progress if you stick strictly to the law so its complete nonsense
Thats why they target them, its easy money.
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There was a case at court recently in which a PCSO saw the driver using his handheld mobile, reported it, and a serving police officer went to the driver's house a few days later to give him the ticket.
PCSOs can certainly issue parking tickets and, I'm fairly sure, fixed penalties for littering.
It could be different forces have different procedures.
Edited by ifithelps on 25/06/2009 at 18:18
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I always always put my key on the dashboard if I need to park up and use my phone. Sometimes lately (due to a crisis with a friend) it has been essential that I answer it, so I park up (safe and not causing an obstruction) and then answer it. I turn the engine off and put the key on the dashboard so there cannot be any doubt that I am not 'driving'.
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I was not ranting at the OP but the apparent principle that many phone owners just have to interact with ther phone all the time. With regard to the law, it is a thin line between being in charge of a vehicle and actually driving it. We hear of so many cases now that you just do not want to push your luck on this one as it now carries 3 points and the fine. Regards Peter
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How pathetic that we have to go to such lengths to prove to ticket happy automations that you are not ' driving' a vehicle.
The law was put in place clearly aimed at stopping people from moving a long a highway with a phone clamped to their ear. Are there not enough people breaking this law that they have to track down stationary vehicles and ticket them ?
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Thanks for the responses. Lud, I suppose I have been "unlucky" in some ways. I had only been driving the car for around three minutes, and I was pulled over on the road I've lived on all my life. Due to recent accidents in the area (A13), the police had launched a crackdown, and I seem to be the only resident that didn't know about it.
Pretty good crackdown I have to say. I didn't even make it to the end of the road.
However, I must admit that it wasn't the first time I've answered the phone whilst driving, nor have I always tried my best to stick rigidly to the speed limits! The way I see it, is that it was just "my turn" today! I cannot really complain.
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This seems to me exactly the sort of offence that does not require the full force of a sworn Constable. In city traffic a PCSO on a pushbike could catch them like flies - I usually see a dozen or so on my 2 mile central London ride.
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Problem is that the powers given to PCSOs will increase as time goes on.
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Problem is that the powers given to PCSOs will increase as time goes on.
Not sure that the expansion of powers in itself is a problem
When it does get difficult is where powers exist but their adoption by a particular police authority is optional. Ally that with scrimped training and over enthusiastic PCSO's who "read something somewhere" and the lawyers can have a field day - or the innocent can be stuffed sideways.
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Just look at the numerous cases of PCSO's running around, pulling data cards out of photographers cameras whilst shouting about it being illegal to photograph this , that and the other. They are poorly trained, short in knowledge of the law and merely trying to convince the public that the streets are full of real law enforcement officers.
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It's not illegal to photograph anything - where were they doing that?
MrX -you were on about drivers having to prove to the ticket automatons that they are not 'driving'. Did you have an example of this, because it wasn't part of the original post?
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I've read of a case where some one has been ticketed for using a mobile phone whilst STATIONARY , having pulled over at the side of the road. I remember it because it followed the lines of the engine was off but keys where in the ignition. Pathetic.
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>>>It's not illegal to photograph anything - where were they doing that?
Actually I have seen articles where the police have arrested people for taking photos of them and now it can be construed as a crime under the "terrorism laws".
Problem is that if you cannot photograph a police officer you may not be able to have evidence of a misbehaving police officer.
Note: - To all the police officers here. This is not getting at you! It is just that the very few bad apples will be the ones more likely to detain you for photographing them. I believe that we should be able to photograph the police without fear of arrest.
tinyurl.com/5c5zc2 (links to www.telegraph.co.uk)
tinyurl.com/6vhngj (links to www.independent.co.uk)
tinyurl.com/le8jbt (links to www.amateurphotographer.co.uk)
tinyurl.com/5bldwz (also links to www.amateurphotographer.co.uk)
{Links shortened to restore page width to normal. Not being funny, but the tinyurl link in one of the sticky posts up above is really quite easy to use! Almost as easy as my delete key is}
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 26/06/2009 at 01:28
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I'm sure our resident plod wouldn't mind the odd sneaked paparrazzo shot provided they had had time to hitch their breeks up, disarrange their hair winsomely and turn their good profiles to the camera.
As for misbehaving riot plod with their numbers in their pockets, they need to be filmed from several angles at all times. Of course when they need it most they may be in a place where that won't be easy.
But this new law sticks in the craw of an English person. What next? Six months mandatory for 'disrespecting the armed forces'? This isn't Latin America for heaven's sake.
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What i like is how you still often see police persons driving on there mobile phone when alone....
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The really annoying aspect of this 'crime' is that hands free kits (yes yes I know some people don't like them) are so readily available for very littl emoney. But, phones are so cheap or even free that some people resent buying an extra piece of kit. It costs less than £200 to have a Parrot bluetooth device hardwired into a car. So to see people driving very expensive cars, but having aphone clamped the their ear is galling to say the least.
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I'm sure our resident plod wouldn't mind the odd sneaked paparrazzo shot provided they had had time to hitch their breeks up disarrange their hair winsomely and turn their good profiles to the camera.
I've had that happen Lud...and not that long ago either....trouble is I looked somewhat portly...so i'm all in favour of censorship... :-)
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Don't worry about it WP. Even George is bound to pork up sooner or later. Mark my words!
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Had a quick word with a Pcso of my acquaintance today.
Seems they can't issue a ticket for using a mobile while driving, because it is a moving offence.
They can issue a ticket for obstruction, and for parking on zebra crossing zig-zags, an offence which carries a fine and three penalty points.
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