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I never really thought of my Daf 44 as a luxury car -- rubber band drive belts and I couldn't fault it - ever since I got my first Auto at 23 I have always wondered why anyone would drive a manual - I am now retired and still think manual is waste of time - It's very nice getting back into my big Barge after a few days driving SWMBO hatchback.
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Another thing is that if performance is a concern then auto's are normally slower than manual. I know that there's a new auto box where that isn't true, but in general it is. In most cases its not significant and because the manual 0-60 times are often achieved by driving in a way that we wouldn't, in reality the auto box is fine.
Personally I have only owned one auto box and I loved it and would have another by choice if I could.
However I am a bit dismayed that the SAAB 9-3 150bhp diesels that I am looking are nearly a second slower for the auto box! I had a test drive of an 07 plate auto recently and kick down and starting from stationary were very sluggish!
Regards.
FTF
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While I agree that comparable autos are slower on paper, I don't think they are in practice. Few people can or want to drive a manual in that fashion for fear of damaging it or attracting attention due to the noise and pitching suspension, whereas an auto (proper auto) just wafts along effortlessly without any loss of drive between gears. The auto is always in two gears at once because the clutches don't carry drive, they merely sprag or brake gear sets, so there is no jerking.
Edited by Hamsafar on 11/06/2009 at 23:12
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Ive driven BMW & Merc manual boxes and they are pretty bad. I think somewhere in the region of 95% of all mercs are auto's I read once, and as such they put a lot of R&D into getting it right.
The manual box i drove on a C class Merc was worse than an Astra. Not a good box at all. While the Merc auto's are super smooth and i'd have one anyday.
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Auto's need a proper instant torque engine to give their best.
I've driven some where the engines thought fast once wound up did not have instant power on tap at low revs, quite unpleasant and need pre planning for swift driving, defeated the object.
Anyway the main reason that luxury cars are auto only is that no one in their right mind would want a nice powerful car with a manual box...like having a dog and barking yourself.
The economy implications are irrelevent in this market where smooth seamless changes are demanded with effortless instant acceleration.
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A comment above about poor manual gearbox in a certain Germany companies cars... I'd have also thought the foot operated parking brake made more go for the auto as well!
I like auto boxes if the car is not slowed down too much by it. Thankfully with a DSG the emissions are not to high so my next car may have an automated gearbox. Not a torque converter type but the dual clutch variety - and it will be a company car so I do not care if it brakes in 4 years time.
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I think I'd probably want one that could brake straightaway. Think it might be quite difficult to live with one where you had to wait 4 years....
;-)
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:-) No I use engine braking and anticipate traffic and lights so four years should be fine.
Trying to multi-task tonight, swapping between here, watching TV, backing up things on the desktop, etc.
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Know the feeling ! Sorry, couldn't resist........I am ready and waiting for your revenge in due course....
;-)
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Watch out for the car behind using engine braking etc. ;-)
I must stop thinking about new cars. My car is only 2.5 years old without about 23k miles on it. Would like an Audi A5, a Scirocco, ... the list goes on.
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...Sorry, couldn't resist........I am ready and waiting for your revenge in due course....
In Signum Rambles, Humph wrote: "...and I know you like your's Avant."
Your's?
Humph,
I know you won't want to wait too long, and you know you can always rely on me. :)
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I didn't have a choice - BMW don't make a manual gearbox that can cope with the torque produced by the engine. It does have the sport setting with paddleshift for when the mood takes you...
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"there aren't enough idiots around with the £50K+"
They're all in Hampstead Garden Suburb Kevin
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if you live in a city with contsant stop/start traffic then auto is a real benefit for the driver, although i'd agree the fuel economy would suffer
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I know someone who bought the old-shape merc ML 270 with the 6-speed manual - must be just a handful of them around surely? The reason was simply that he hated automatics. Worthless car on used market though.
As has been already said, luxury is about ease of use and serenity - serenity is never a guaratee with a manual box, especially when mated to a big engine which quite often seems to end up with a truck like 'box.
I love autos dearly and would if I had the choice always have one, preferrably connected to a rumbling V8.
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I once bought an MGB roadster with a flea speed autobox - dunno what came over me really but I've been fine since the ECT.
I've just been on a journey of 76 miles in my 05 Almera 1.8 auto and feel fresh & unstressed ... average speed 32MPH and 44 MPG so I can't grumble at that from a petrol engine.
As has been said - some small cars, like the Micra I drove recently - are better suited to a manual gearbox, although swimbo had a Clio a few years back with the 1.4 16v lump and that went quite well.
I'd like to think these DSG gearboxes are 'the way 2 go' and I must admit that I rather enjoyed the C3 I drove with sed box a few years ago but ... I think I think I'll be staying with the 4 speed auto or as in my case - the 3 + overdrive 4 now.
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Hey BBD,
did you see the Super V in this week's AT?
'51 Reg. with 60k on the clock for £9k???
Only problem is that it's black/black.
Kevin...
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C-Class 220 Diesel (with Auto gearbox) to be one of the finest vehicles
I found even C180K auto very smooth - doesn't even feel like it should have been manual :) Of course, I don't drive autos frequently so can't comment to much.
Edited by movilogo on 12/06/2009 at 21:31
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Hate hate HATE autos! And the though of a nice meaty engine coupled to a droning slush box...eurgh.
Nothing like the sound of a V8 ripping through the revs punctuated with skilful human gear changes, not the awful uuuRRRRRRRRRrrrrrggggghhh you get from autos!
Edited by Webmaster on 13/06/2009 at 04:35
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Aye...and wheelspin in every gear :-)
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Each to their own....
From a first time poster. I swore that I would never drive an Auto - till I tried on in 1997. Now I won't drive anything else.
I get 50+ mpg from my 2.0 Diesel Auto doing a mixture of town and motorway driving, so I don't have any fears about fue economy. Also, the auto box changes gear way, way quicker than I ever could, so it is useful when I need the power (admittedly rare in my laid-back driving style).
In fact the engine and gearbox combo is superb. Shame about the rest of the car.
I'd love to be able to get a Merc auto, like SWMBO has - but I am skint!
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>Nothing like the sound of a V8 ripping through the revs punctuated with skilful human gear
>changes, not the awful uuuRRRRRRRRRrrrrrggggghhh you get from autos!
Just what you want in a "luxury" car eh?
Kevin...
Edited by Webmaster on 13/06/2009 at 04:34
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Just what you want in a "luxury" car eh?
Yup.
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"Only problem is that it's black/black"
See there ARE idiots with 50k+ to spend...
I've got black leather at the moment and it's like sitting in a barrel of tar.
There's been a flurry of activity with the Daimlers this week, quite a few have shifted. What's with all the wedding limos that have suddenly appeared?
I was hoping to find myself an XJR this summer but until I can get my clients to start spending money again...
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I was hoping to find myself an XJR this summer but until I can get my clients to start spending money again...
I manged to persuade a mate who was very much a Mercedes man to get an XJR. He bought one 3 years old, in black, with cream leather. What an awesome bit of kit. Astonishing performance, more than reasonable handling, yet still a wafting comfortable saloon.
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The thing I like about automatics is that the engine is totally unstressed, as is the driver,
I reckon that an engine will last longer mated to an auto box.
I learnt on a manual but for decades now I can't for the life of me undertsand why any one would want to keep on depressing the clutch pedal and keep changing gear up and down, up and down driving through a city where'as they could travel in luxury?
Obviously ya can slam the pedal to the metal, and yes - that would lead to uuuRRRRRRRRRrrrrrggggghhh and wheel spins a'plenty if that's your thing.
I can understand people Hating automatics - I don't like Eastenders (The prog) my Dog hates cats so on and so forth.
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>>I was hoping to find myself an XJR this summer but until I can get my clients to start spending money again...<<
When that happens (and I hope and pray it happens soon), can I have a go?
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The thing I like about automatics is that the engine is totally unstressed
corollary - does it mean automatics are less likely to be misused than manuals?
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does it mean automatics are less likely to be misused thanmanuals?
Depends, thrashing a fast luxury automatic car enough to hurt it will soon end in a lost licence.
Unfortunately my son tells me that some drivers ,well idiots, intent on maximum power and acceleration are known to rev an auto up to 5 or 6 thousand rpm in neutral and then drop it into drive....the mind boggles at such stupidity.
They call it a form of 'launch control', i think they've been reading too many boy racer mags.
I'm still very happy with a proper old fashioned auto without tiptronic by any name, most luxury car engines are powerful enough for any manoeuvre without needing racing changers and over revving.
They can be missused by neglect too of course.
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Unfortunately my son tells me that some drivers well idiots intent on maximum power and acceleration are known to rev an auto up to 5 or 6 thousand rpm in neutral and then drop it into drive....the mind boggles at such stupidity. They call it a form of 'launch control'
Such ignorance.
They're much better putting the lever into drive, holding the car on the brake pedal with the left foot and then revving up the engine with the right foot before letting go of the brake pedal. This results in a much more effective launch. You can't do it with modern autos though, they will automatically drop the revs if you try this.
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These leisurely six-cylinder autos, sort of superior repmobiles rather than real big saloons, would probably suit me now but they really used to annoy me.
Hired a coke-bottle Vauxhall Cresta once to do some market research in the Midlands and North. It was fine just lolloping around but the damn thing wouldn't do 100 on the motorway, and I drove it absolutely flat all the way down the M1 back to London trying, as a friend put it, to 'melt the engine'. The engine didn't melt and the car wouldn't go over 98 on the clock. Drank a hell of a lot of 4 star though. Piece of carp.
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corollary - does it mean automatics are less likely to be misused than manuals?<<
(hehe!) In a previous life, b4 my frontal lobotomy - I was showing my cousin how wicked my Dolly Sprint auto could be ... I floored the throttle and it got stuck flat on the floor :( ... one of my more manic motoring moments - phew!
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More like "frightening" see other thread !
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I live in a rural area and I prefer manual gearboxes but if I lived or worked in a city I'd prefer to use an automatic or even a hybrid.
Edited by Sofa Spud on 13/06/2009 at 21:51
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>Such ignorance.
>They're much better putting the lever into drive,..
Absolutely right although it makes no difference with some auto setups.
I'm amazed by the people who think that all auto gearboxes are still uuuRRRRRRRRRrrrrrggggghhh technology from years ago.
I have two cars at the moment. Both of them V8s.
One is a four door saloon which makes gearchanges that are indiscernible except for the engine note. It has a long-travel throttle and soft, progressive brakes. It was built for smooth, relaxed "luxury" motoring.
The other is a two door coupe built for sportier driving. Plant the throttle from tickover and it will lay rubber all the way up through second gear and do its best to snap your neck on every upchange.
Both auto 'boxes but with very different setups.
Kevin...
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I have two cars at the moment. Both of them V8s...Both auto 'boxes but with very different setups.
They do sound like fun, but having grown up with motorbikes and changing the gears on those by age 5/6, I'd still prefer the manual especially with a V8 ;-)
Autos are just lost on me. Less involving, less control, no 'proper' engine braking (Yes I know you can put it in L/2 but it's not the same! I don't know about DSG's though), no skill required whatsoever...not for me ta!
Edited by mss1tw on 13/06/2009 at 23:06
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Luxury cars have big engines which need strong gearboxes and clutches. Changing gear is hard work!
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>See there ARE idiots with 50k+ to spend...
There may be a few around but the ones who want a manual Super V are probably in Broadmoor.
>I was hoping to find myself an XJR this summer..
I've been looking for my perfect Daimler for months now. So far, no luck. I've just widened my search to include XJRs.
>but until I can get my clients to start spending money again..
Aren't we all?
Good luck mate, you have impeccable taste ;-)
Kevin...
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