Our son bought a 2007 car with our help. Mileage was low and it was around £6000 . I asked if it had been in any accidents and was told that the Polish guy`s wife had knocked the bumper.
I nagged the boy to make sure it was seviced by the main dealer to keep the guarantee valid.
He takes it in and learns that it needs a gaiter and maybe a gearbox ! No problem, to get those done under the guarantee was worth the £300 he paid for the manufacturer`s service.
He waits for the garage to contact him. Yesterday he contacts them! They tell him that they think the car was a write off. He rings them today and yes it was.
When we bought the car there was no mention of it having been a write off...we wouldn`t have taken it for the manufacturer`s service ..and would certainly have haggled over the price and wanted to know waht had happened to the car during the accident.
Any ideas where we stand legally?
Left with a bill for £300
A gearbox and gaiter needed
A cat d car when he comes to sell it.
Help!
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youve got me here
why would the garage do a hpi to see if its cat d
whats in it for them? did the manufacturer do the check? to get out of honouring the warranty?
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Hm
Not sure about that maybe it`s something they do as a process before they actually go ahead and do the work. As far as we were aware , we were simpy waiting for the gearbox to come in. When we took the car in initailly, we were told that the guarantee anlso meant he`d have a courtesy car whilst his car was being done...all part of the manufacturer`s guarantee.
Obviously, now they know about the cat d they can walk away from the gearbox and gaiter job being done , `free`. I`m more concerned that we bought the car believing that it was under guarantee and had`nt had any accidents and whether we can do anything or have any recourse against the guy who sold it to us.
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Any ideas where we stand legally?
Unfortunately, nowhere.
An HPI check before you part with the readies is the only way to avoid this kind of scenario.
In a trade sale, I believe it is illegal for a salesman to lie about write off status if directly asked, but they don't have to volunteer the information, and unless you have any answer in writing, the law is unenforceable anyway - they will just deny you even asked the question. Reputable dealers won't get involved with write offs in any case as it's not in their interest.
In a private sale, you have no legal comeback whatsoever. The only time I've ever known people get anywhere is with careful "persuasion" and I wouldn't condone that approach.
Edited by DP on 29/05/2009 at 23:33
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I myself have a cat d write off which I bought at an auction. A few days after the auction I had a call to tell me it was a cat d, but at the time of the auction I had no idea. They said that they had to tell me by law and I could return it if I wished.
I am now selling my car and I have made sure I state the cat d....in case I have recourse. My ins co also had to be told so I think there muat be some law about it someplace ??
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the gearbox problem might be nothing to do with the insurance write off or it might be clear that it was once you get it on a ramp
6 grand is a lot of money to spend on a doorstep
i really cant give an answer as i trust no one and would too do an hpi check
are you sure op that this is not a trader masquerading as a private man as they usually do to deny you basic consumer rights?im finding this more and more lately as the recession bites
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for the record you DONT have to inform your insurer your car is a write off,however if you try to claim full market value on a claim knowing that it is such, is classed as fraud and rightly so
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for the record you DONT have to inform your insurer your car is a write off
It's surely a material fact and you have to tell insurers anything that is, or even might be, a material fact.
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as - silvasands has pointed out he wasnt aware,he didnt know he was innocent
it makes the tron =know1 episode laughable doesnt it
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His ad said that they were changing the car because of the children and needed an estate, however, when the reg document came back , we could see that he had bought the car in Nov 2008 and my son bought it ifrom him in December 2008. He had put it almost immediately for sale. He is a builder by trade. I have contacted him and he knows we aren`t pleased. he `s away in Liverpool at the moment but he`ll hopefully tell me the name of the trader he bought it from (in snip - DD so beware )
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 30/05/2009 at 03:11
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you never said what vehicle it was
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Manufacturered by Citroen...The C4 Cool, Son is travelling 100 miles a day at the moment so needs a 50/60 mph vehicle.He can barely afford the fuel let alone the £300 for the service. His grandfather died and left him some cash and we put the rest. He just needed a reliable motor for his first job (26 and only just finished in Uni ...with student debts too)
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why did you buy private with no history check then if funds were tight?
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Simply that...funds were tight.
I saw it on ebay and bid but it didn`t reach its reserve. Then it cam on again and I had emails between the guy and myself and he said he`d bring it for us to see (both live in Wales). he was due to bring it on the day of the auction . When he brought it, I had bid but was outbid at the last moment...so technically it was sold. However, he said he wanted us to have it so he went against ebay rules and apparently annoyed the other bidder.....and sold it to us.
As they say...He seemed honest`. My husband and my son went to his home to collect the car and to pay and it all seemed above board. I think that he bougt it in good faith but the trader who sold it to him might be the one who knew it to have been a cat d.
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The other bidder was himself or an associate bidding the price up.
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As a Cat d is a repairable car - have you found out why it was originally written off and what the damage was... Also I suspect that you didn't see the log book when you bought the car, otherwise warning bell would have sounded if you'd seen that he had only had it for a month? I suspect that unless you can prove he was a trader you will struggle to get anything back (and even if you do I'll bet he will have no money if you sue him)...
Shouldn't the heading be "warranty", not "guarantee"? I assume the OP is talking of the remaining Manufacturer's Warranty?
Edited by b308 on 30/05/2009 at 09:21
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"He can barely afford the fuel let alone the £300 for the service."
Silva, If you can get your money back you could buy a Panda 1.3 Multijet diesel from fiatsupersaver for £5995 - brand new.
The savings between running that contrasted with a used (presumably petrol) C4 are likely to be very considerable.
All the best anyway
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As someone said earlier, if you buy privately then it's a case of "buyer beware". Unless the ad misdescribed the car in some way then putting it bluntly it's tough luck.
There are obvious benefits of buying through a dealer although you pay for these benefits.
You can do a private HPI check for a few quid.
I remember once when it was my job to do the PX HPI checks, I always did them when I saw the order form except on one occasion when I decided (for what bizare reason I know not) to do it just before the car was delivered. Of course the car was delivered early & the HPI check revealed a write off. Fortunately the guy had a problem with his new car so I "lent him" his PX for a few hours whilst we fixed his new car ..... phew! He seemed genuinely surprised when I gave him his money back when he returned later that day.
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Things in this I don't really follow.
£6k seems a lot of money to spend on an e-bay car. Surely with that kind of budget you'd go to a dealer unless you really know what you're up to?
And does the cat d invalidate the warranty?
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I've bought a Porsche GT3 for over £50k from ebay, however I do know what I'm doing.
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It`s the question as to whether the warranty is invalidated that I`m trying to ask the site.
I`m looking for a car for myself and found a 2008 Alfa Spider on Ebay. It stated it was a cat c yet the ad also said it was covered by the manufacturer`s guarantee until the year ....
As for the price, there were no comparably priced cars for the age and mileage this one had covered so it was , reasonably priced. What annoyed us was that had we been told it was a cat d we would have haggled over the price and still probably have bought it. However, we certainly would NOT have taken it to the main dealer for a £300 service, my husband would have carried out the service on it.
It`s the dishonesty and the not being told, thereby taking away our choices.
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I know it's of no consolation to the OP, but it's actually quite easy to see if a car has had an accident damage repair. Open all the doors, bonnet and boot lid and inspect the welds which are visible. Compare one side of the car to the other ~ bodyshops are unable to replicate the original welds. Compare the paintwork all over the car ~ resprayed panels invariably have a smoother surface than factory-painted panels. Look at details, not just the overall appearance.
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A NEW car could have been bought for much less than you paid-hindsight is 20/20 vision and comes with a three year guarantee.
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Even a petrol Panda - new at £5.495 (or C1?)
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He had a C2 bought on ebay but it wasn`t so good on fuel. (his brother bought it off him) The C4 is a diesel and so better on fuel consumption.
Have you been on the motorways with a C1 ? Our daughter has one and it rattles as the lorries thunder by. If you travel 400 motorway miles in 4 days....most would agree that a C4 diesel is safer and more comfortable ?
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In answer to your question, does the Cat d accident affect the warranty, the answer is yes if the accident damaged the gearbox and the gaiter, manufacturers warranties don't cover accidental damage.
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"Have you been on the motorways with a C1 ?".
You see lots going past at 80mph though ;-)
But It`s what you personally feel safe in, I agree - and distance can be quite subjective too - in what seems a long way.
I`m more into Fiat`s OP. The diesel Panda feels a quite substantial car on the motorway - I`ve tested one. Our own cars are the old version of the Punto (mk2) we tour Europe often in those. (Panda is the same size and weight)
Not challenging your car buying judgment - merely pointing out you could have a brand new Panda Diesel for the same price via fiatsupersaver - as a lot of people don`t realise. - outside the fiatforum
And you mentioned "barely able to afford fuel"
Regards
Edited by oilrag on 01/06/2009 at 16:09
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Found this really helpful.I have spent 2 weeks trying to unravel the full the history of a vehicle being advertised on e bay. The ad is very comprehensive but does not reveal that the car is cat D and it has taken a few phone calls and e mails to various organisations to work out what most of you guys already know.The seller has given me a lot of info with out revealing that the vehicle was cat D. Neither could I find out how the vehicle sustained its damage or whether the seller has bought his own car back from the ins. co. because I didn't check the reg. doc. carefully enough when I went to see the car.I have found out the following which might be helpful to other unsuspecting buyers.
The car seems fine,excellent condit. and drove well
It had an Autoline report. which states "removed from active condition alert" and"reclassified".This does not mean that the car is no longer Cat D. It always will be.
A phone call to the DVLA revealed this.
Autoline's suggestion is that the vehicle had sustained "hydraulic damage" but that the ins. co. engineer was too hasty in declaring the vehicle a write off.
The sellers story is that he had the main fuse replaced whereupon the car started.(not spotted by ins. co. engineer.)
The car was then taken to a main agent for" checking "and warranty WORK WAS CARRIED OUT!!!! ( BILLS TO PROVE)
We also noticed a fault on the car when we test drove it and the seller put it in for more warranty repairs!!!
This is all genuine.I tracked down the dealer.(who was unaware about the cat D).SO presumably they dont run HPI checks on newish cars
Autoline say the car is fine because they carry out extensive checks.(but I wonder if they have a vested interest here)
They also said I would have the manuf. warranty as back up.
The main agent says warranties only cover manufacturing defects and suggested contacting the manufacturer for clarification.(waiting for them to get back to me.)
There would be an issue if any faults were attributed to the damage.I would be interested for any comments on this point since as far as I can find out the insurance co. dont publish details about the cause of any damage.
I have also found out that some ins.co. wont insure cat D vehicles and that a seller must inform a buyer that a car is cat D.( or is that only if asked?)
Finally always ask some blunt questions and check out these blogs +HPI
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When my dealer did some "warranty" work on my old Fabia I never got a bill to prove it, it was just done... unless Citroen dealers are different?
Re the work on SS's car, sounds like they looked at the problem, wondered why there was a problem and dug a bit deeper... and found the accident damage?
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