We all know it clogs are roads, causes congestion and is producing a nation of fat, unfit kids.
" CAR commuters will get to work 12 minutes quicker on average this week, as they will not have to compete with the school run.
For Londoners driving to work, the journey should be almost 16 minutes faster, a survey by car insurance company elephant.co.uk found.
Around 10% of motorists expect to save between 30 minutes and an hour a day during school holidays.
After Londoners, the drivers gaining the most by half-term and full school holidays are those in Northern Ireland, who save an average of 13 minutes and 30 seconds each morning.
In the North West, drivers will have 10 minutes and 40 seconds shaved off their daily commute to work.
But the schools being shut will have the least effect on south west England drivers, who have just nine minutes 28 seconds shaved off their morning commutes.
The survey was based on responses from 3,000 motorists. "
tinyurl.com/qpya9t
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No kids in this household so no axe to grind.
It isn't as simple as just knocking out the school run cars - I've taken this week off work - you get a full week away for the sake of 4 days leave.
And even if you kids walk to school, but you drive to work, you might have the week off.
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And there will be quite a few who drop kids at school on the way to work. I used to. There was no bus, and we lived 1.5 miles away and the route to school was on a busy B road with no pavement. Not really suitable for a 5 year old.
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And there will be quite a few who drop kids at school on the way to work.
I'm with ONB here:
How many families have both parents working and have no option but to partake in the school run?
Ever looked at how the people are dressed when they drop their children off?
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The ' on the way to work " argument holds up for some . The ' kiddie fiddlers lurking on every corner ' doesn't hold up as an excuse for me.
Seeing the number of drivers ( female ) dressed in pyjamas with a coat thrown over the top and the unshaven blokes with their shell suits, suggest to me that these are the parents who like to lie in till the last possible moment before throwing their half awake kids in to the car and dashing half a mile around the corner.
By getting up an hour earlier, they could walk and deliver their wide awake , refreshed offspring with out the need to choke our roads.
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Seeing the number of drivers ( female ) dressed in pyjamas with a coat thrown over the top and the unshaven blokes with their shell suits suggest to me that these are the parents who like to lie in till the last possible moment before throwing their half awake kids in to the car and dashing half a mile around the corner.
And these could well be the parents who work shifts, and are having to do the school run half way through what would be their 8 hours night sleep!!! before going back to bed before having to pick the kids up before having to go to work.
Times have changed, time it's self is a scarce commodity to most people.
I sit on the parents council at my childs school, yes we promote walking and cycling to school as much as possible. But we also have to have a moan at the school every meeting about them opening the doors late. They open at 8:50 for a 9:00 start, that gives a 10 minute window, the limited car parking around the school can be used 3 or 4 times over in that period, but if they open the doors late then 1 space can only be used once possibly twice. so adding to congestion. The school are finally taking this on board now.
When schools are now built they really need to look at parking etc, but they don't, and it causes lots of trouble, not only for the commuters but also for local residents around the schools.
Councils and LEA's have their priorities wrong for a modern UK thats the problem.
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I agree it's over simplistic to cite the improved traffic conditions as evidence for the impact of the school run.
Apart from people taking advantage of 9 days off for 4 days holiday, many working parents will be taking leave, or working from home where possible when the kids are off.
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Is this the old "my car journey is important, it's everyone else who should walk" discussion?
Thought so....
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...Is this the old "my car journey is important, it's everyone else who should walk" discussion?...
I've railed at school run parents in the past for clogging up the roads.
But they could equally say: "If it wasn't for that blasted ifithelps driving to work my journey would not take as long."
Edited by ifithelps on 26/05/2009 at 12:04
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But are parents driving their kids to school any worse than people commuting to work by car? I'm assuming that both have viable alternatives in a city like London, like walking, bus, underground and, if the route is safe - cycling.
As a parent, I've always considered the biggest risk to children is posed by road traffic.
Edited by Sofa Spud on 26/05/2009 at 12:10
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'As a parent, I've always considered the biggest risk to children is posed by road traffic.'
Tried to get my head around this one. Heard parents use this argument as an excuse for driving said kidddiewinks a short distance from home to school because the roads they would be using to walk on are dangerous. Kids then return home from school and are allowed to play out unsupervised on those very same roads till gone dark ??????
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'As a parent I've always considered the biggest risk to children is posed by road traffic.'
>>>>
Actually vehicles account for 19% of deaths of boys in the age group 11-16 and 15% of girls (www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200607/cmhansr...t
ext/70227w0036.htm).
It's the highest single cause of death, but far outweighed in total by all other accidents, illnesses, assault, etc.
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Actually vehicles account for 19% of deaths of boys in the age group 11-16 and 15% of girls
Probably caused by all the other school run parents trying to protect their offspring from road accidents!
When I lived in the UK I had a neighbour who, each morning, would start the car and leave the engine running whilst the family had breakfast. I politely asked the woman one time why they did this.
"Oh", she said. "I warm up the car for the little ones before taking them to school. It's a twenty five minute drive and I don't want them to catch cold". Heyho, a Volvo owner that apparently can't afford coats for the kids.
She was right about the journey time though. In the morning, along with all the other school run traffic, it was at least a twenty five minute drive. I knew this because my office was about 200m away from the school. I, however, only used to take ten minutes to get to the office from home despite leaving at a similar time.
How did I achieve this? I walked. Driving involved a very round about route, going over a road bridge across a river, resulting in a total distance of about 5 miles. Walking involved going over a footbridge and through a housing estate with a total distance of less than a mile.
Admittedly the pedestrian route also involved going up a steep hill which is presumably considered too challenging for modern kids. When I were a lad...
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Luckily my shifts mean I don't clash with either the commuters or school run mob...
But I agree with X, there are many who could walk but are too lazy... shame, as it would do some of them good, not to mention making their kids more healthy...
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more school buses/minibuses needed...and free to use
kids are safe and parents don't need to drive them to school
many homes could get rid of their second car
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No, it's the ' my journey has no viable alternative " argument so I must use the car.
Quite different from the " I can't be bothered getting up an hour earlier and walking my kids to school " argument.
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There'd be a lot less school-running if it weren't for those daft School League Tables, telling all the parents which school their kids needed to get into - rather than the nearest, more convenient school which hearsay said was 'OK'. That, plus the fact that smaller schools have become 'uneconomic' and been merged into bigger ones, ostensibly to provide a wider curriculum. Not only that, getting data for Tables has made teaching impossibly unbearable for a lot of teachers.
Blame politicians, as usual ...
Edited by Andrew-T on 26/05/2009 at 12:39
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Much as I dislike the extra traffic during the morning commute, I still don't think its fair to complain about people doing the school run. Who has the right to judge another for how and when they use their exorbitantly taxed vehicle?
As for the kiddy fiddler on every corner. That may be an exagerration but as they are generally left to do what they like these days I would certainly not be taking the risk with my kids.
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We can all blame the school run for congestion but local authorities can take some blame.
I drop both my kids at the MIL on the way to work. One child walks to school and the other gets the bus. The primary school my boy goes to is on a residential road shared by 3 schools. It is also a commuter rat run. On many occasions due to bad parking and selfishness from all parties, grid locking occurs.
I wrote to the local council to suggest a section of this road be made one way to ease the situation. They came back with the "if you can show figures for injuries/deaths at this junction" blah blah. No, I don't have sufficent figures of deaths for this junction, to sway the cost of implementing a scheme, I am suggesting a common sense solution to a traffic management problem.
So many road problems could be solved by better traffic management. But it appears our local authorities TM departments are manned by tree huggers and liberals who travel about on public transport or cycle.
Why can't they adopt ideas from us or produce some on their own ( thats what they're paid for isn't it) and look at it from a road user point of view and get things moving.
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I'm sure there was an article in Auto Express fairly recently (and probably widely reported) that the government had changed it stance on traffic flow. Previously local authorities were expected to take 'revenue' into account when assessing traffic flow, now this is less of a priority.
In other words. Make 'em queue and burn fuel!
A total change of attitude around traffic and the way it flows and we probably wouldn't even notice the 'school run' increase.
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Anyone who pays their road taxes and complies with the legalities is entitled to use the road whenever they want.
In fact it could be argued that school runs are the least flexible as there is a set start/stop time for most schools.
My kids walk to and from school every day, one school has a breakfast club opened from 8am each day where, for 60p, they get a choice of cereal, toast, fruit and fruit juice.
Those that are sensible do what they can to minimise their own disruption based on times they pick to travel.
The bigger issue we have here is the whole working environment that Britain has. With the abundance of broadband there are countless numbers of people who could work from home
for some of the day/week.
I normally spend my first hour to two at work dealing with emails / computer related items. I could do these from home and then travel in at 10.30 and my journey would probably take a quarter of the time, be more economical and less polluting. But until this become the norm, then there will always be a bit of "working from home, yeah we believe you" mentality.
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I work on a main road with a comprehensive school within a sink estate, and in the morning and evening, there are loads of chav parents in (mostly old Vauxhall Zafiras) abandoning their cars all over the place outside the school on the yellow zigzags etc... holding everyone up while doing 3 point turns etc... As said in other posts, in the morning these are mostly overweight unhealthy looking women with large hooped gold earrings dressed in pyjamas. There should be a MASSIVE cut in benefits, it's ludicrous that people who don't do a stroke of work can afford cars and to drop their children off at school. Congestion would no longer be an issue if people on benefits were prohibited from keeping a motor vehicle.
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>>Congestion would no longer be an issue if people on benefits were prohibited from keeping a motor vehicle.
Not a lot you can say to that is there?
Edited by Tron on 26/05/2009 at 15:09
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Is there some suggestion that the Mums/dads haven't paid the same taxes as me in respect of their cars? Aren't they just as entitled to use the road for their chosen purpose? Who should we round on next for what we arbitrarily consider to be an unsuitable use of the road?? How about driving enthusiasts or motorcyclists who want to enjoy their car/bike and some decent roads. Justified?
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Much simpler answer to the problem, stagger the school start times, and allow flexible working hours for those workers who are required to 'do the school run'.
School premises are a public resource and should not be left idle 16 hours each day ( let alone 14 weeks each year). Commerce and industry has adopted hot desking - why not schools, why not get outrageously creative?
p
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Mr Hamsafar. Your post above is an offensive and inaccurate generalisation borne out by nothing but your own pre-conceptions and a misplaced feeling of snobbish self importance. I'm quite astonished that you thought the Backroom needed to hear such bigotry, and it wouldn't entirely surprise me if a fellow moderator came along later with the scissors to tidy up your more offensive comments. Please don't bother posting anything in this vein in future.
smokie, Moderator
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There'd be a lot less school-running if it weren't for those daft School League Tables telling all the parents which school their kids needed to get into Blame politicians as usual ...
We knew which schools were the best long before league tables came in, AT, I don't think its fair to blame the politicians in this case...
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Concerns over parking at a local girls school where I was beat constable in about 1970 led to me being posted in the road at chucking out time to report on the situation and suggest any improvements.
Double deck buses would pull up opposite the school gate on the other side of the road and wait. Parents would park on the side nearest the school. Girls would come out, those using cars would be ok but the ' bus ' girls would have to cross the much narrowed road between the cars to get to the buses. Not ideal as it was a bit of a rat-run and, of course, the parking on both sides caused some congestion.
The road at the side of the school was long, straight, residential on one side, with the school wall on the other. It was also very quiet. I suggested making the entire road at the front ' no parking ' with a dispensation for buses, which would take an easy short diversion and park with the doors within feet of the school gates. The 'car ' girls would then walk round the corner, not having to cross any road to get to their lifts. An even better way would have been to cut a new exit for them in the school wall.
Problem solved, not much expense, danger gone !.................no, it's still as it was 39 yrs ago !
Ted
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You could ban non residential parking with a no waiting restriction within say 500m of a school 10 minutes either side of opening and closing time (with exceptions for those who have good reason to use the car). That'll stop a good percentage of the traffic and after a while many more will see that the roads are safer and start to walk to school again.
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Sir Hiss, My grandson's school have done this in the past year.
Yellow zig-zags, 'school, no parking ' and signs giving the times of the ban.
Parents, the very ones who should be obeying this resriction, still park there. I have never seen any enforcement around.
Ted
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I have friends around the corner who live in a school parking road. Come 2.45 they are there on both sides waiting for the 3.15 empty out.
My friends drive is quite often blocked with the driver sitting in the car. She approached one recently and asked if they could move as she wanted to get her car off the drive.
" I'll only be 10 minutes " came the reply
She pointed out she wanted to leave there and then and got a really dirty look back.
" If I move now, I'll not find another space, you know what it's like round here.. " they retorted.
She has a lot of patience because I'd have been removing, door mirrors, wipers and anything else by then.
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That'll stop a good percentage of the traffic ...
I doubt it, most people will ignore the ban. Till a few years ago I lived 200yds from the gates of a largish school. Buses and cars clogged the road for about 15 mins either side of pick-up time, despite double-yellows etc. Mums (mostly) just think it is a necessary right to get there first and seize pole position.
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With the way the names of teaching establishments are changing it will soon be the academy run or the community college run etc. And when did schoolchildren change from being called pupils to being called students? Crazy.
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Yes
I walked to school - escorted when it was dark. - 1 mile up to age 11 then 2 miles.
My children walked - we CHOSE to live somewhere they could.
We all benefitted from the exercise.
We have too many couch potatos who don't walk apart from the car park to the shops - suspect there are a few members here like that.
Should have car exclusion zones around schools to promote child safety.
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My children walked - we CHOSE to live somewhere they could.
In these wonderful times, proximity to schools can add a six figure sum to the price of a house in certain parts of the country. That takes choice away from a lot of people.
It's a totally different world nowadays. House prices, and the cost of living forcing both parents into work meaning many school runs are done on the way to/from work are factors that didn't exist when I was a kid.
There are people who live within walking distance, and choose to drive kids in, and something needs to be done about these people, but there's so much more to this problem than that.
Edited by DP on 27/05/2009 at 10:46
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That's all true, plus you can apply to your local school (in walking distance) and then still not get in because it is so over-subscribed.
That's happened near me, people have a school 1/2 a mile away and then are told to attend a less popular school 3 miles out of town. Madness!
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I don't think you can legistlate against parents driving their (my) children to school; you can legistlate against inconsiderate & dangerous parking. And it is likely that if you deprive the parents of a close parking space then they may look for alternative methods of transport - buses, car sharing or even walking.
But as with most inconsiderate, dangerous or even illegal behaviour in this country, the authorities will not enforce the legistlation.
My daughters' school regularly sends out letters, often from the council, asking parents to be more considerate in where they park. It makes no difference - the same ones still park on the zig-zags, the yellow lines, in the school grounds, on the bus stops; & why shouldn't they - there's more chance of Gene Hunt being made chief constable of the Met than a bobby turning up outside the school to slap a ticket on the offenders!
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It's a totally different world nowadays. House prices, and the cost of living forcing both parents into work meaning many school runs are done on the way to/from work are factors that didn't exist when I was a kid. >>
Yes, and when I was a kid we didn't have a car. I walked to the station, then got a bus to get to school. It's not only today's kids that haven't experienced that - it's their parents too.
The school run is less of a problem if you just remember it happens and try to avoid that area at that time. It's a sort of chaos theory butterfly in the Amazon forest thing with a disproportionately large effect on traffic overall.
But it would be better if people who can see that their cars are causing traffic problems would get in them with their kids and go home rather than enjoying a social occasion chatting on the pavement while traffic for miles around grinds to a halt.
I'm not sure but I think it may be in the Human Rights Act that a parent collecting or dropping off a child is exempt from traffic and parking regulations.
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In some,possibly all,American states, they operate a very efficient school bus system.The children gather in small groups a short distance from their houses on the route which is dependant on where they live.Whilst the bus is picking up the children huge hazzard lights flash and all traffic has to stop until the bus is on its way.The process is reversed for the homeward journey.
The bus is used efficiently,there's no''school run'' by the parents,it's very safe,and ''green''.
They are a few decades ahead of us in the obesity stakes though but we are catching up fast.
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"It may be in the Human Rights Act that a parent collecting or dropping off a child is exempt from traffic and parking regulations."
You cannot be serious! Surely any "freedom" or "right" in this Act is circumscribed by issues like the need to impose restrictions and regulations for the good of society as a whole. Surely no-one can argue they have the "right" to obstruct a road or ignore parking restrictions simply because they are waiting to pick up their child?
That said, the law has been shown to be an ass before and no doubt will again.
An authoritative ruling, someone?
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Sorry, Chris, the HRA thing wasn't serious. More a comment on the fact that people seem to behave as though a right of some sort or another is in the background.
I drove past a first school the other day. Cars were parked on both sides of the road for about three quarters of a mile including just off a zebra crossing. Road is a main artery in and out of town. Traffic was piling up in both directions. It was a sunny afternoon and parents were enjoying the sun and the conversation, completely oblivious to the chaos they were causing: presumably because they caused and were oblivious to the chaos every day.
Having said all of that I mentioned the HRA because it's been used to justify some quite strange behaviours!
Edited by Optimist on 27/05/2009 at 13:12
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