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00 2.0 Alternator problems - trukker
Hi all, newbie on this fine forum of yours would appreciate some advice on my 2000 306 2.0 Hdi (now 148,000 miles)

I've had the car since 2001 when it had 8000 on the clock, it's been serviced by a garage ever since (not necessarily Pug dealers) and has never given me a minute's trouble until a couple of months ago. Driving along one day, I got an electrical burning sort of smell, and the battery light flashed on briefly. Couple of minutes later the engine coughed, died and then picked up again, but the battery light came on and stayed on. Drove home, had a sniff under the bonnet and got that burnt smell again. Got the multimeter out, checked the battery voltage, started the engine and checked it again - the voltage with the engine running was lower than with the engine stopped, so I figured it must be the alternator.

Checked the price of a new one, sat down, had a cup of tea to steady my nerves and found a pre-loved one on the internet with a 90-day guarantee. Removed the old one while I was waiting for the postman, slipped the new one on when it arrived (just like that . . . . yeah, right . . . ) and everything was hunky-dory with 13.9 volts on tickover.

Fast-forward to last weekend when me and Mrs trukker were off out for a jaunt after the car had stood unused for two days. I hit the central (un)locking button on the key and . . . nothing happened. Thinking the battery in the key must be getting past its sell-by date, I unlocked the drivers' door with the key, but only that door opened. Turned the ignition on - no dash lights. Tried to start the engine - everything was dead. On checking with the meter I only had 3 volts at the battery terminals, so I took the battery off and put it to charge. The battery was new at New Year when I replaced the original one, so it should be OK.

When it was charged, I put it back on the car and got a little spark when I replaced the +ve terminal. Started the engine OK, so I left it to tick over while I got a multimeter. My digital one got fried a couple of days ago, so I used a Gunson Autoranger analogue one set on high range (0 - 16 volts). As I came back to the car the engine coughed, died and picked up again and when I connected the meter across the battery it went right off the scale i.e somewhat more than 16 volts. I turned the engine off and took the +ve terminal off again and had another cup of tea and a think. When I checked it this morning with yet another analogue meter the running voltage was less than that with the engine off, so it's not charging again. Battery light's on too.

Is this a common sort of fault on Pugs, which I understand are beset by more electrical problems than enough? I don't know the history of the secondhand alternator which I fitted, and you can't predict when they're going to fail anyway, but could the car have some sort of gremlin which eats alternators or is it liable to be just an unlucky coincidence?
00 2.0 Alternator problems - Peter.N.
Could be a glow plug relay fault, that's the only reason I can think of for the voltage being lower with the engine running.

Edited by Peter.N. on 21/05/2009 at 13:57

00 2.0 Alternator problems - moulder
The rear heated window relay also has a habit of shorting and melting the wiring behind it. Its by the drivers right knee behind the fuse cover - the orange one

Edited by moulder on 21/05/2009 at 22:17

00 2.0 Alternator problems - trukker
OK, I'll check the relay later - if it's melted it should be obvious!

How would i go about checking the glow plug relay?

BTW, when I say 'voltage is lower with engine runnning.' I don't mean a lot lower; maybe 0.5 volt (it's difficult to spot the difference on my analogue meter). I would have thought the electrical system would consume enough power to do that if the alternator wasn't charging. I would really have liked to see 13.5 - 14 volts on the meter to tell me it was charging.

I was wondering if the alternator regulator had gone belly-up giving loads of volts in the first place, then taken the diodes out causing no DC output as shown by the battery light on the dash?
00 2.0 Alternator problems - Peter D
Did you compare the gunsun meter and the owher analogue meter on the battery not running. did they measure the same voltage. Regards Peter
00 2.0 Alternator problems - trukker
Yes, after I had established that the voltage was within the range covered by the Gunson meter I tried it and it was giving nominally the same results - as far as I could tell given that it's an analogue meter with smallish scale divisions. So yes, I can believe that the Gunson was telling me that the initial running voltage was over 16v with some conviction, and that now the voltage diminishes on starting the engine. Slightly.

I'm inclined to think the 'non-Gunson' meter would be more accurate anyway cos it's a professional instrument as issued to BT engineers in the dim and distant past - but it's still an analogue device with small scale divisions . . . .

Think I'll have a trip to Maplins on the bike tomorrow and buy a new. cheap digital meter. It'll still tell me the same thing but at least I won't be straining my eyes!

I stripped the original alternator tonight and discovered that the diode plate was fried and the brushes weren't that clever either, so that could explain why that one died. When I can find my Megger (workshop re-organisation - don't ask!) I'll test the insulation in the rotor and stator just for my information. If the cost isn't too prohibitive I may rebuild it as a spare.
00 2.0 Alternator problems - vmturbo

I have repaired several alternators over the years and faults have included worn bearings, fried diodes, iffy voltage regulators, burnt terminals etc. A particulary poor alternator was one on a friends Mitsubishi Starion which had failed because of a design fault. Its a long time ago now but I seem to remember that the three windings from the stator were bolted to the diode assembly in a very poor way as plastic was part of the "sandwich" that was clamping the connections together. The plasticity of the plastic caused the clamping pressure to be lost and burnt contacts occurred. Reverse engineering the job was not very difficult but owing to the limited space "thin nuts" (AKA half nuts) had to be used. I had copper braid and heat resistant woven glass sleeving so everything was to hand. Doing the job was rather like model-making as the parts were fairly small but at least the job could be done indoors in the warm. The new set-up was done with no plastic in the "sandwich" but the old plastic was still used just to locate the terminals. Done this way the car ammeter always stayed around zero when the engine was running as all loads were balanced. The bad design might not have been Mitsubishi's fault as I seem to remember that the alternator had been reconditioned.

Another troublesome vehicle was a Land Rover 300 TDi. The fault was oxidised strands of wire inside a crimped lug. (The alternator output lug) Such faults can be found by feeling the wires when the alternator is on full load and any warmth needs investigating. Of course on a great many cars the machinery is crammed in so tight that its hard to get near it.

Present austerity car is a Pug 306 HDi and the alternator voltage goes up and down like a fiddlers elbow! There is a receipt in the car documents that states "New alternator £165". Clearly the previous owner who was female regularly got taken to the cleaners. The last straw was a worn or maladjusted stop light switch hence the scrap-man was called in.

Good luck with the alternator, as to spares these can often be bought online as the days of having a really good parts shop in every town are long gone.

00 2.0 Alternator problems - jc2

I had a 2CV which had a voltmeter on the instument panel-it was frightening to watch.You started the car and the volt reading went up to about 15v.,the regulator cut in and voltage gradually dropped to about 12v.,then back upto 15v and so on.I replaced the regulator(seperate from alternator on a 2CV) with an electronic one(about 10% of the size but terminals and mounting were identical).Voltage now remained steady and lights etc. did not vary in brightness.

00 2.0 Alternator problems - Zolasdad

Partner 2.0HDi - same engine

At 194k I'm now on my 2nd replacement alternator (sorry, can't remember mileage that the others failed at) and yes with a 150amp unit, the price is scarey!