For example W124s were not fitted with electronic gearboxes while W210s were. If you are lookingat a particular car a quick check is to remove the cap from the automatic gearbox filler tube if there's a dipstick there it's not an electronic gearbox - if there's just a blank cap it is.
My W210 has a Dipstick and no, not the driver before one of you lot starts!!!!!
MD
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My W124 (from 1994) has an automatic gearbox with an electronically controlled 5th gear.
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I should have avoided that generalisation;
The 722.5 gearbox fitted to some late W124s did have some very limited electronics - but this is very much in the category of an add on after-thought when compared to the full electronic control of the 722.6 gearbox fitted to all but certain types of early W210.
There are 2 other simple ways to find what's fitted;
1) look at the build sheet in the back of the manual, if you see 722.3xx or 722.4xx it's mechanical 722.5xx and it's like bagpuss's, 722.6xx, and it's fully electronic.
2) using the first 6 figures of the VIN and this site;
www.detali.ru/cat/oem_mb0.asp?TP=1
find what's fitted. For example, my E300D (124.191)
www.detali.ru/cat/oem_mb1.asp?TP=1&F=124191&VIN=
has a 722.435 gearbox, which is mechanical. For some cars where there's a changeover, you'll find both types listed on the site.
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Number_Cruncher, I'm impressed. Where do you get this stuff?
Also, how did you manage to find a Russian website without the usual pornographic adverts and popups?
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It's a brilliant web site, frequently linked to by the MB specific fora, mbclub.co.uk and mercedesclub.org.uk
In many cases, one can find part numbers on the Russian site and then obtain an estimate of cost using;
www.mercedes-benz-parts.co.uk/
The Russian site is also particularly helpful in identifying those parts for which MB make repair kits or sub-assemblies.
For example;
preview.tinyurl.com/olwmdw
The steering rack complete (item 10) is £2012 before any discount, while the track rod inner joint which usually fails is available as a sub-assembly with the track rod (item 110) for £42 per side.
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Hi
I have asked the question as a garage is putting a 1990 250D engine into my 1992 SL 24 valve petrol car and i was wondering, how and if the engine would work OK with the SL gearbox. The engine is now fitted ,they still have all the connections to do-can anybody see any problems with this.
Cheers
Lizzy
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I have asked the question as a garage is putting a 1990 250D engine into my 1992 SL 24 valve petrol car ...
You jest, surely?
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That seems like an odd thing to do.
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Surely the gearing for a 'box designed for a torquey diesel engine will be a little out of kilter with the gearing your multivalve petrol engine will want? Should be more economical, though!
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>>Surely the gearing for a 'box designed for a torquey diesel engine will be a little out of kilter with the gearing your multivalve petrol engine will want?
I'm sure Woodbines is right, and Brian is just winding us up.
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I'm sure Woodbines is right and Brian is just winding us up.
Brian?
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Ah!!! could be Mrs Brian!
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Surely the gearing for a 'box designed for a torquey diesel engine will be a little out of kilter with the gearing your multivalve petrol engine will want? Should be more economical though!
Fortunately and, assuming this isn't a windup, the 250D non turbo engine is anything other than torquey. Accelaration in a so-equipped W124 is comparable with continental drift.
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Aha - hi
No not a wind up-but Mrs B trying to get her head around things that I have heard Brian talking about. I don't understand all the technical jargon - so i was trying to get some sort of re-assurance from experts that this would actually work. Brian seems confident at the moment- but I am wondering (from snippets I have picked up) whether the SL gearbox will work with 250D engine. Yes we are probably crazy - but hey-when you retire and slow down and are a bit senile-it makes life a little exciting.
Lizzy
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>>No not a wind up
Ah, OK.
As both gearboxes are purely mechanical, there's no significant difficulty there. In fact, it's probably the least of your worries.
Ideally, you would keep the 250D engine and gearbox together - there are a number of internal specifications and settings, namely shift points, torque convertor characteristic, and modulator pressure which, while they won't mean the gearbox won't work at all, will make the engine and gearbox less than ideally matched to each other.
So, it might well work, but it might not feel much like a Mercedes!
The entire vacuum system from the 250D engine needs to be transferred across, for two reasons. First, and by far the most serious, you'll need a vacuum signal to STOP the engine, second, the diesel engine doesn't produce manifold air pressure proportional to engine load like a petrol, and there is a complex series of pipes, restricotrs and valves which make the vacuum signal from the engine to the gearbox mimic that of a petrol - if you don't get this right, the gear changes will either be weak and flary, or, neck snappingly fierce.
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Hi number cruncer - thank you for this information
The garage has fiited the 250D into the SL gearbox they have had to make engine mounting brackets and cut a lump out of the cross bar and re-inforce it so the engine will sit properly. I think they are going to use the vacuum from the deisel engine to the SL gear box. So this i assume will work. I will show your message to Brian as it will make more sense to him. We will be going down to the garage tomorrow-Saturday to see how things are.
Thank you
Lizzy
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forgot to mention - we had to use the SL gearbox as the speedo is electronic and will only run of this gearbox, there was no way how we could fit the speedo connections to fit the diesel engined gearbox.(vacuum from sl gearbox will go to the fuel injection pump same as the diesel gearbox)- this is how Brian has explained it to me. does this make sense??
lizzy
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In your shoes, I would put a bit more effort in checking if the diesel's 722.4xx gearbox can be retro-fitted with an electronic output.
I think that in some models of MB fitted with the 722.4xx gearbox the output to the speedo is electronic, and with a bit of research, and perhaps help from the dedicated MB forums, you'll be able to keep the diesel engine and gearbox together.
Taking the rear housing off the gearbox, and replacing the standard parking pawl and speedo drive skew gear with a parking pawl with a pulse ring and sheet metal sensor sleeve is not difficult work - it's just a case of finding the right parts.
Parts 52 and 53 are the sheet metal closing sleeve
www.detali.ru/cat/oem_mb2.asp?TP=1&F=124105&M=602....6
although as they aren't fitted to this model of car, the numbers aren't listed below.
Assuming the SL is a 4 speed;
www.detali.ru/cat/oem_mb2.asp?TP=1&F=129061&M=104....=*&CT=GA&cat=09C&SID=27&SGR=090&SGN=06
you can see the alternative assembly - parts 9 and 37 are for a gearbox with mechanical speedo drive, while 9, 29, and 32 are the parts for an electronic speedo.
If possible, and I strongly suspect it is, this will make the best of a somewhat odd conversion.
What's motivating you to molest your SL?
Edited by Number_Cruncher on 15/05/2009 at 23:57
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Hi
when the garage first started on this conversion they put both gearboxes side by side and tried changing bits and pieces over ,also got in touch with electrical engineering company that told them that this could not be done. Also the prop shaft would not have fitted on the back of the deisel engined gearbox. Hence -why they had to put the sl gearbox back.
Reason for this odd conversion(mona lisa with a beard) as i call it- I love my SL -but not the petrol consumption. I have no intention of selling the car-hopefully if i ever get it back to drive, i don't need a racer, my husband has a 250D saloon and i find this quite adequate- just occassionally have to change automatic gearbox down by hand on certain hills. The Sl is comfortable and i love the look of it- if all fails it will look nice in the back garden with a plant in it.
Lizzy
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Yes, there's no way you can swap bits and pieces from one gearbox to the other. You would need to buy some new parts.
To track the parts down would need some enginuity. For the propshaft, for example, you would need to find an output spider that will fit the output spline of the diesels 722.4xx gearbox AND have the right bolt spacing to fit the front rubber donut and propshaft. You won't have enough parts from the 2 gearboxes you have in front of you now.
As the conversion you're doing is, shall we say, unusual, then it's unlikely you're going to find someone who has actually done it. Most garages will run a mile from projects like this and not want to get involved. If I were a garage and if you were asking me if it were possible, your conversation with me wouldn't have lasted this long!
If you're absolutely sure that you're going to keep the SL gearbox, then, I'm sure it will work in a fashion, however, I would urge you to surf the Russian parts site for a while to see if you can build up the parts you need to keep the diesel engine & gearbox together. I believe it's possible - MB parts are quite modular and sensible - and I also believe that it's worth spending some more time looking.
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Yes i understand what your saying - but i feel that from the last conversation with the garage - we have now put the enginbe back with the sl gearbox - if i ask them to take it out again - i am sure they will close shop-i can feel they think they have taken on more than they can chew. I am going to see them tomorrow - Saturday - with Brian as they have had the car for 7 months. Thank you for your help - you have made it easy for me to understand better. Somebody on the mercedes forum said-when we first started- "you will regret ever starting this" - in one way i am - but on the other hand - it is a challenge - and i have some patience. I know you think i am crazy - but wish me luck for tomorrow
Lizzy
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Of course, yes, I hope the conversion goes well.
As I tend to lurk in the technical parts of the MB forums, your peculiar enterprise was unknown to me until today! Sorry my input has been a bit too late to be useful.
>>I know you think i am crazy
You might very well think that, ....
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Hi Number cruncher
I have posted the latest on the mercedes forum petrol to deisel 7 months on.
I would be grateful for your comments
Lizzy
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