I gather they have stamped the book? Have they also supplied an itemised invoice for the parts they claim to have used? (Oil, filters, spark plugs, environmental charge for disposing of drained oil etc)
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I wd agree with Chris S though: if they are capable of looking you in the eye and saying they've changed the oil etc when they haven't, they are capable of anything and you wouldn't want them monkeying with your car. If it's a nice one keep it and try to claw some money back from them. If it isn't complain and make them take it back. But anyway have nothing more to do with them.
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Are you really sure they havent done anything? Plugs probably not due to be changed at 20K same for air filter. Oil does look dirty straight after an oil change as its contaminated by the residual oil. If mechanic had dirty hands when fitting the new oil filter then it could look dirty.
just playing devils advocate, but you need to be really sure he hasnt done anything as the 20K service is probably nothing more than an oil change.
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I used to work in the trade few years ago. There was a salesman I worked with that always stamped up the service books but never had the services carried out as it came out his commission. He got caught in the end.
If your buying from a dealer always ask what service they will carry out. When customers asked 'will the car be serviced' a lot of them just presumed it would have a full service and not an oil and filter change which the dealership would rather do as it costs them a lot less.
Also get everything in writing as its a lot easier when things go wrong.
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Even in a diesel engine, oil that has been changed within the last week or so looks and feels quite different from stuff that's been in there a long time. If the oil filter has just been fitted by a mechanic with dirty hands it will have finger marks on it. If not it will have a coating of oily grit. Again, the difference is clear. As for air filters, there isn't really a standard time for changing them. If the car is run in dusty conditions they will need changing more often. Lots of people never even look at them. But if an air filter is visibly dirty it is nearly always worth changing it.
I must say though that if I had been the OP I would have checked the moment I got the car, not waited a few days.
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johnw100 says the oil filter has 10,000 miles of dirt on it and i know what he means
ok he doesnt say his car is a diesel but lets assume its a petrol i looked at the oil in my car last week after at least 1000 miles and its still clean,ive just checked on a corsa i did the oil and filter in last week and its been 10 miles and thats still clean and i cleaned the plastic oil filter cover and all the dribbles afterwards
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Thanks for all the replies.
To answer some questions. Yes they stamped the log book to say its serviced. No they didnt give me an itemised invoice of the service , in hindsight I shouldve asked for it when I picked up the car.
I pretty sure they havent touched anything, the oil filter is untouched you can see a layer of dirt on it that if you touched it would clean off easily. The air filter has lots of black specs and dirt, although not particularly bad. The engine oil , is right on minimum level, ok they could under filled it so cant be 100% about that. But does look a bit dark for new oil.
I do agree about having to be careful with this one. They did fix a couple of things that I asked to be done but I`m not wanting to get on bad terms with them, might need to use them again for the warranty.
Was thinking of just forgetting about it and getting it serviced myself , just not happy about being told somethings done when it hasnt.
Cheers
John
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what state is the oil filter in? They are usually white and are easy to spot if its been changed or not.
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Was it a main dealer John ?
Why not just go back to them *in a non-confrontational way* and put your questions about the service to them & see what they come up with.
I would be inclined to change the life blood (oil) and filter anyway if I were you comrade.
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If a main dealer says it will service the car it probably will, because it's not their money.
If a small dealer says the same they probably won't, because it comes out of their pocket.
You might just as well report the dealer to Trading Standards and then have the car serviced somewhere else. I would not trust this dealer to service my car.
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If a main dealer says it will service the car it probably will because it's not their money.
It is their money. Any bodywork, servicing or any cost associated with the car comes off the bottom line. The salesman makes a profit around 8-12% off the bottom line. So in his view he wants to keep costs to a minimum. Anything he can do himself such as touch ups or polish a scratch out he will do and not incur costs from a DentWizard etc
The mechanics work in the same way. They will charge £100 - £300 for a service to the car although they are not on commission, the service manager will be and will take a cut.
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Its a petrol car. I`ve done my own servicing on previous (older) cars so I know what to look for and lets just say the oil filter and air filter have at least a few thousand miles of dirt on them. Not 80 miles since I got the car on friday.
It was from an independant dealer, not a dealership. They have a single workshop and about 40 cars for sale of various types, probably 4 employees. So yes any servicing would be a loss on his part off the purchase price.
Going by the responses I`m sort of inclinded to go elsewhere for a service and contact trading standards. Like someone said i`m not sure I trust them anymore to go back to them for a "proper" service.
thanks
John
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You sound at least knowledgable enough to hold your own in a discussion with the sales and workshop managers so I'd suggest you go back and talk it over.
They may not have created an invoice (unless they invoice from workshop to sales) but there should be a bit of paper the lad was ticking while he sat listening to the radio to show what was theoretically done.
If they are a local independent and you're local, you can make sure everyone you know will never go anywhere near them unless they come in your direction.
You may never go near them again either but you should let them know you're unhappy and see what they say. You may be pleasantly surprised.
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I'm with the Optimist(ic!) approach above. You can't lose anything by going back for an informal chat. Let them know you know what you're talking about (which won't be difficult given your opening post) - don't accuse them right off - let it sort of sink in. I'd go through your list with them expressing mild surprise & slight disappointment at the apparent lack of service 'signs' you've found. Always leave an 'out' - after all there may be a genuine reason the service wasn't (apparently) done.
If their attitude is unco-operative or even confrontational - don't persist & certainly don't leave your car with them after insisting they do something - human nature can be perverse in those circumstances!
If they make genuine enquiries internally & seem keen to sort it out, perhaps go along with an offer to 'service' the car again. I'd be very keen though, even in that circumstance, to be able to watch in some way, what they do - perhaps say you're keen to learn & observe in an 'educational' way - being a mechnista yourself etc.
Whatever, don't leave your can with them unless you're 100% confident in their attitude & intention. If no joy, then consider an enquiry to trading standards - if just to query their register: many carry lists of previous complaints etc. It won't be worth progressing a complaint unless you're willing to carry it through - you may decide to cut your losses & write it off as a 'learning experience' on where not to go in future.
I'd consider a franchised service anyway, whatever happens - the car's still, technically, in warranty & you may want to establish a relationship with the franchise in case of warranty claim etc.
Edited by woodbines on 27/04/2009 at 17:06
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Why not ask the salesman (or his boss) to have a look at the oil and air filters to see their condition for himself, as there would be no argument then?
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I'd be inclined to have the car serviced at a main dealer and send the bill to the supplying dealer, with little or no expectation they will pay it.
I imagine a two-year-old Peugeot must have cost several thousand pounds, so what's a hundred or two for a service?
The car is under warranty, so the main dealer is the best place to get any warranty work done which is needed over and above the service.
Your new car will then be set up properly for your period of ownership.
Edited by ifithelps on 27/04/2009 at 18:56
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"I imagine a two-year-old Peugeot must have cost several thousand pounds, so what's a hundred or two for a service?"
A kick in the teeth? I'd be fuming....
"The car is under warranty, so the main dealer is the best place to get any warranty work done which is needed over and above the service."
But will the warranty be intact after this non-franchise, non-service?
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...But will the warranty be intact after this non-franchise, non-service?...
Fair question.
Presumably, the main dealer service will keep the warranty straight, even if it turns out the car has had its oil changed twice in a week.
It's bit like the old joke: One careful owner - and six who couldn't care less.
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There may well be a genuine answer to all this ... they may genuinely be crooks or it isn't due for a BIG service as yet ... as I said b4 - take the critter back and see what they say about it - what have you got to lose?
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You have the stamp in the book. you have what warranty came with the car. Thats the main thing. A service at that mileage is only an oil and filter change. Just let the garage go, spend 60 quid and get the bits and do the job yourself.
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Thats the easy option.
But this is all that's bad with the industry and this country. The OP has done a deal on a car all smiles, promises, handshakes and free cups of coffee. The garage will have made a profit and the possibly the salesperson a commission. Not only has the experience been tarnished but the customer has been had over by some greedy, smarmy, slimy dishonest salesperson/garage.
And that STINKS! What happened to pride and conscience? They do it because more often than not they get away with it.
I don't mind anyone making a profit out of me, that's what retailing and the economy is all about but treat me with some honesty, respect and don't take me for a .
Edited by Fullchat on 28/04/2009 at 00:04
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Quite right Fullchat, a new motor, pretty penny handed over, ought to have been valeted and all the fluids be up to the mark and new. But not all dealers are like that. If the car's good, and just needs oil and filters, life's too short to argue with tiresome suits or tooth-sucking villains in overalls. So AE's right too. I'm sure you will both agree a decent indy should be found for serious work when warranty expires...
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Agreed Lud, its the next best option. And it made me feel better!
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Nah - Its the pragmatic option - not the easy one.
what else you gonna do? make them do the service? you really want that lot touching your car? Inform trading standards? you have no proof the service wasnt done and its a shed load of personal hastle.
If the car is OK, chalk this one up to personal experience, never go near them again and steer your mates and locals away from them.
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Thanks the all the suggestions!
I think as most people have said I`ll just put it down to experience and take it too a main dealer and get it serviced. Not worth the hassle for £150 (hopefully!) and at least I can keep the servicing on the car with the manufacturers rather than a third party.
I will get in touch with trading standards though, hate to think these cowboys are doing to every car. At least it`ll make me feel a bit better by reporting them. Although yes, how do I prove they havent done anything.
Thanks
John
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IMO you're wasting your breath going to Consumer Direct about this unless you can without a shadow of a doubt show there's a problem. And to do that you need to go back to the dealer.
Why not? You'd do it with a faulty telly you bought and you don't have to raise your blood pressure while you're at it.
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maybe so Optimist but if everyone has this attitude that im not going to bother, then how can trading standards have a file on them that can build into an investigation?
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I do think that the garage should be given the opportunity to rectify...or at least comment, prior to reporting to trading standards.
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Perhaps the dealer is a gambling man? Go back to him and ask him for proof that the service was done, over and above the stamp in the book. If he assures you that it has been done suggest that the car is given a full AA/RAC inspection and it can be paid for by you if it has been serviced and by the dealer if it has not.
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>>>>>suggest that the car is given a full AA/RAC inspection and it can be paid for by you if it has been serviced and by the dealer if it has not.<<<<<
That could be defined as Terror by the U.N. akin to Waterboarding!
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>>If the car is OK, chalk this one up to personal experience, never go near them again and >>steer your mates and locals away from them.
Wouldnt you have to be a bit careful about saying anything to locals about the quality of the garage and the circumstances of your disgruntlement?
Mistakes happen, and I think it only fair to tell the garage that you think it has been missed because if I owned the garage and a genuine mistake had occured, I would be incandescent if I overheard in the pub that someone was telling others to avoid my garage and I hadnt had the chance to rectify.
Would that be slanderous/libellous? I forget which way it is for written/verbal!
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Neither slanderous nor libellous if true. :-)
Suggest you don't use the word "lied" though. However, telling other people that the garage didn't appear to have serviced the car yet stamped the book is absolutely fine IMHO.
However, don't just let it lie. A lot of people here are suggesting that, and if they're happy to let £150 be flushed down the drain then I'm more than happy to accept £20 from them.
Get it serviced at a main dealer to keep the warranty happy, but at least go back to the supplying dealer and bring it up with the boss. He may be horrified (unlikely) but at least you'll have done something.
Edited by David Horn on 28/04/2009 at 14:19
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It was actually the boss of the garage that I did the paper work with. i asked him had he done the service , he said yes. I said what was done, oil? filters? spark plugs? . And he said yes the normal service requirments for 20k. Then he changed the subject about if I had the insurance in place to drive away and I forgot to ask him about the invoice for the servicing.
Put it down to experience I guess.
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I do think that the garage should be given the opportunity to rectify...or at least comment prior to reporting to trading standards.
I agree. It could be nothing worse than an administrative error. Before you do anything else, go back to the dealer and discuss it calmly and rationally.
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