He parked in a car park but bought a ticket but left the sunroof slightly open, the wind must have blown the ticket of the dashboard. When he got to the car the ticket was on the drivers seat and not the windscreen. He has proof via CCTV and via the ticket that he bought one, is there any hope of an appeal?
It seems a bit unfair to get a fine for what is basically a genuine mistake.
The carpark is owned by NCP so is a private one.
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Your dealing with a money making business with no concept of the word "mistake. "
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I don't want to get involved in the ethics of NCP due to the no shaming policy, I can see why he got the ticket as the inspector (or what ever rude name you want to call them) would have not seen it.
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Rule will state ' ticket must be displayed on the dashboard " some will even stipulate drivers side . Even if the person in the uniform could see and read the ticket on the seat, a rule has been broken and vengence must follow. Treating this incident the same as you would treat it if the person hadn't bought a ticket merely shows what a pink fluffy dice this country has become.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 23/04/2009 at 11:29
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nothing wrong with this post, just removed following an edit further up which makes this non relevant anymore
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 23/04/2009 at 11:36
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I've met enough of them in 30 od years to realise... 8< snip 8<
Mr X - enough of your social life thanks. Please do your best to make your points without being offensive. smokie
Edited by smokie on 23/04/2009 at 18:12
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I've met enough of them in 30 od years
Did you meet the one who issued the ticket to the OP's friend?
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nothing wrong with this post, just removed following an edit further up which makes this non relevant anymore
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 23/04/2009 at 11:31
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A private company cannot issue fines, these are the preserve of the Police and the Courts.
What you friend has actually received is a demand for money from a private company based on an alleged breach of contract.
Usual advice with private tickets is to ignore them and not to write and appeal.
Contact with them shows you are a "hooked fish" who may crumble and meet their demands.
As mentioned above these companies are money making machines, how many appeals do you think they allow?
Head over to the Pepipoo parking forum for more advice or check the "Restaurant Parking Scam" thread started today on here.
As always
Mark
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I am aware about that law but I am always aware of the breach of contract law, I am sure an NCP car park will have all the correct signage etc.
These tickets surely must be legaly be enforcable otherwise nobody would pay for the ticket, .
Also if I got on a tram without a ticket I would get landed in court, this is still a private company so I am confused.
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Rattle before going any further consider these questions;
By whose standards will the signage be correct?
Which piece of legislation covers private car parking signage?
Why do PPCs rarely take people to court but instead just issue sets of misleading and threatening letters demanding money which can in themselves be illegal?
What loss has the private parking company incurred through the actions of your friend?after all they bought a ticket so why should they be "fined"
Is a penalty clause legal in English contract law? especially where it seeks a disproportionate amount in relation to any loss incurred (hint Google for a case involving Dunlop and also Google again for unfair contract terms)
The legislation which relates to the non purchase of a tram ticket is totally different to that which covers private parking, don't mix apples with oranges.
As always
Mark
Edited by mark on 23/04/2009 at 01:43
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There is a huge discussion on this subject going on as we speak, here
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=74270&...4
Towards the end is a link to an organisation (Roadsidelawyers?) who supply a free template letter to send to the scammers or who will take the whole thing off your hands for a flat fee of about £37.
If this 'ticket' is issued by the police or a local council it is valid and can be enforced in the courts; if it looks official but is actually a Penalty Charge Notice it has no force in law and it can be ignored
Edited by Armitage Shanks {p} on 23/04/2009 at 05:59
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Rattle
If your 'ticket' is headed PARKING CHARGE NOTICE then it is almost sure to be a 'private' parking offence and subject to the law of contract and civil proceedings.
If it is headed PENALTY CHARGE NOTICE then it will have the weight of the criminal law behind it and cannot be ignored.
Speak to the local authority of the area of the offence and ask them to confirm whether or not there is an "Off Street Parking Order" in force and if NCP are their 'enforcers'. If not then it is a 'private ' matter.
www.tinyurl.com/2hr37d is then your port of call for your edification.
dvd
PS: Night flying AS?
Edited by Dwight Van Driver on 23/04/2009 at 09:21
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Friend sort of wrongly given parking ticket - Rattle >>
Rattle, you have previously had to ask Mods to lock threads when you have posted on behalf of "friends" without the friend's knowledge.
Why not ask your friends to join and state the facts themselves as they know them and ask their own questions rather than put yourself in their minds?
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Do as I did when this happened to me although it was not an NCP car park. I photocopied the ticket and attached it to a letter explaining what happened. Never heard anything again.
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Thanks will ask some of these questions I have no idea what the notice actually says. It was a private car park though.
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I had a slightly similar experience recently parking in a council car park in salisbury. We parked right next to the ticket machine, purchased a two hour ticket, placed it on the dashboard and went shopping.
On my return one hour and forty minutes later there was a parking attendant attaching a penalty charge notice to my windscren. I was obviously vexed as i had given the council two pounds for the priviledge of parking and asked the attendant what the problem was. He pointed to my ticket which was face down on the dashboard so he could not read it.
I expressed my regrets at this oversight and offered to show him the face of the ticket. He agreed and I unlocked the car, turned over the ticket and showed him it was valid. He agreed it was a vaild ticket but said that as he had issued the ticket he could not cancel it and I would have to write to the council to beg their forgiveness. I did ask him to note that he had seen the face of the ticket and confirmed that it was valid.
He also said that he had noted the reference number on the back of the ticket which could be checked against the machine to confirm its date and time of issue.
All in all he behaved very fairly, professionaly and politely.
On my return home I wrote to the council, enclosing the ticket and crossed my fingers.
Two weeks later a letter arrived from the council confirming that the parking attendant had noted that the ticket was valid, included a photo of the reversed ticket on my dashboard and gave me a dressing down on the correct procedure for displaying a parking ticket. They did, however, agree to cancel the penalty charge and expressed the hope that I would continue to support the shops and businesses in Salisbury.
Not all parking stories end badly and not all parking attendants are mindless thugs delighting in the misfortune of others.
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8< snip 8<
Understandable but unnecessary comment Mr Focus. smokie
Edited by smokie on 23/04/2009 at 14:03
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Some wardens are helpfull
I parked in Darlington Council car park (if anyone knows it, its the one behind Boyes oppsite the old bus station)
I went to get a ticket, put my money in the machine, and it would not dispense a ticket.
after a little head scratching and then cursing the machine a attendant came over, I explained what the problem was, and as i had clearly paid my fee he said that it would be ok he jotted down my reg, after he explicity ensured me that it would be legitmily parked i went on my business taking care (as usual) not to "outstay my welcome"
When I got back under 2 hour later there was a whole que of people taking to this attendent as he was taking down peoples details and explaining what that they could not actually buy a ticket i actually felt sorry for him - but true to his word I had no hassle from it.
They are not all bad but as i havent really given any valuable advice yet, i would agree with all the posters on here, that unless its local authority they cant really do anything to you - iof neccsary complain to Trading Standards/police/council or your MP
Ste
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all I can say is that I am glad we dont have such problems with "Private Car Parks" in Southern California. Most parking violations are written by public employees and reasonable explanations are usually considered by the court.
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I read all this and then I have to pinch myself to make sure I am still alive. We are talking about a perceived parking offence yet the efforts involved in dealing with it would be worthy of a murder case. 'stackman " has to beg forgiveness, the council hand out a ' dressing down '.
Contemporary notes are taken at the time and later offered in evidence...... and all because some one may have parked a vehicle in a safe and designated parking spot but not put coin in the councils hand.
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My friend has a problem; give me some advice...
As usual.
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Almost the same thing happened to me on top of Filey Cliffs. Write to the issuer of the ticket explaining the circumstances. Send the ticket as proof (keep a copy for reference).
Worked for me with Scarborough Council. Although they asked for payment a second time and I wrote a second time and was let off again.
If that does not work, paying up may be the cheapest option.
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My friend has a problem; give me some advice... As usual >>
Munchausen
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Not all parking stories end badly and not all parking attendants are mindless thugs delighting in the misfortune of others.
I parked in a pay and display car park in Oxford City Centre last Summer, and purchased a ticket for the two hours we were expecting to be gone. To cut a very long story short, two hours turned into four, so I left my wife and daughters in the restaurant where we'd stopped for lunch, and walked the best part of a mile back to the car to purchase another ticket before it expired.. It was when I got to the car, I realised I'd forgotten the car keys! I decided to purchase another ticket, and stick it on the outside of the screen, taking my chances that it wouldn't blow off or be stolen. However, for whatever reason (probably brain fade while ranting to myself over my stupidity) I didn't put the ticket anywhere near the old one.
We returned to the car a couple of hours later (within the time purchased on the second ticket) to find a penalty charge notice under the wiper. However the second ticket was still where I'd left it. The attendant clearly hadn't seen it.
I took a photocopy of the (valid) ticket, and sent it in to the appeals address on the penalty notice with a polite covering letter explaining the whole sorry saga. I received a very apologetic letter three days later informing me that the fine had been cancelled, and as with the example above, please continue to support Oxford's city centre businesses.
And this is from what must be the most anti-car council in the country.
Edited by DP on 23/04/2009 at 19:35
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Failing to buy a tram ticket is covered by legislation -and you commit an offence by not doing so -that's the difference there.
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